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Post by penguinfactory on Nov 26, 2010 10:44:25 GMT
God damn, the wait for Monday is going to be excruciating. I don't think Reynardine is telling Annie this to try and get back at her. Remember this page? He was going to tell her before.
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Post by christopher on Nov 26, 2010 11:21:49 GMT
You know, Reynard's facial expression (such as it is) doesn't look as vindictive as Annie's did when she dropped her bomb on him. In fact, I don't think he intended to actually tell her.
Whatever happens, we'll see it on Monday. Tootles!
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Post by theweatherman on Nov 26, 2010 11:39:50 GMT
Well gentlemen, looks like we're gunna find out something earth-stattering about Surma, I don't think it's the illness, as he said "I know why she was like that" instead of "I know why she was ill", I think he's going to explain that Anthony was the guy who changed her.
Either way, Annie wasn't half as cruel as I though she would be, and right now I think Rey is about to unleash mind-breaking revenge.
Monday, why must thou be so far away?
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Post by basser on Nov 26, 2010 11:50:27 GMT
God damn, the wait for Monday is going to be excruciating. I don't think Reynardine is telling Annie this to try and get back at her. Remember this page? He was going to tell her before. Ehhhhh I think that sententce was most likely something like "surma was... a very good friend of mine/an amazing lady/the object of my strange inter-species romantic obsession." Just doesn't sound like the intro to "your mom had SOUL CANCER" or whatever it was. Also it just occured to me to question when exactly this conversation happened in the relative timeline of all this zaniness. Was Surma busy being a cocktease to Renard while James was off at kickassery camp, or had he returned by then? Dude must have been back by the time Renard went all man-theft-auto on them, since after being evicted from his handsome young mansuit Renard (presumably) jumped right into Sivo. Eggers was already BFFs with Sivo by this point and therefore must have been done training. So if he was at the court, did he protest having his ladyfriend seduce a potentially dangerous demigod? If he wasn't there, then what would he do when he returned and found out said demigod was using body-snatching powers in an attempt to steal his girl? VERY INTEVESTING. Edit: It's 3AM on the 10th straight day of night shift, typing prowess is limited. Edit2: ANTIMONY IS NOT AMUSED.
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Post by todd on Nov 26, 2010 11:58:02 GMT
The events in this chapter might have answered a question that I've occasionally wondered since Chapter Seven. Anja and Eglamore know about Reynardine's links to Surma. And it wouldn't be too hard for them to figure out that one reason why Annie refuses to turn Reynardine over to them is that he's a link to her mother and that she fears that, if she surrenders him to them, she'll never find out what the story was between Surma and Reynardine - and that Reynardine would exploit that to make certain that she doesn't turn him over. So why not tell Annie themselves and short-circuit Rey's hold over her?
Maybe because Anja didn't, at the time, want Annie knowing that her mother lied to Rey and served as an accomplice for one of the Court's unethical schemes. (Of course, that raises the question of why Anja did finally tell Annie that. Maybe she felt the situation was desperate enough to require it.)
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Post by rafk on Nov 26, 2010 12:00:55 GMT
Rey looks genuinely hurt when Annie says he was gonna kill her Yes. I think it adds another string to the bow of "he never intended to kill her". Alternatively, you could read that as him feeling really guilty about what he nearly did to Surma's daughter and adding another string to the bow of "Renard did intend to kill her". Yay contradictions.
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allec
Junior Member
Posts: 62
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Post by allec on Nov 26, 2010 12:59:27 GMT
basser: If I recall correctly, Tom said that scene occurred before the cockteasing one. I'll search his formspring later.
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heranje
Full Member
Oh super wow!
Posts: 175
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Post by heranje on Nov 26, 2010 13:13:47 GMT
Dude must have been back by the time Renard went all man-theft-auto on them, since after being evicted from his handsome young mansuit Renard (presumably) jumped right into Sivo. How would that work? When Renard left Sivo, Eglamore said they had been trying to save him for five years. Since Anni is older than five and definitely hadn't been born when Renard bodyjacked the handsome young man, it seems to me Renard can't have taken Sivo until later.
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Post by strangebloke on Nov 26, 2010 14:36:38 GMT
Hmm. I read this page differently. When you say, "why is she like that?" or something to that effect, you aren't talking about illness or physical deeformity, you are talking about personality.
I assume that reynardine is reffering to surma's character. Perhaps she didn't like to string people like eglamore and Reynard along, but couldn't help it.
The reason why I thought this was pretty simple. So far the segment with Jack doesn't seem to serve much of a purpose. But it would serve a purpose if the point of the chapter is that Annie had a condition that makes her that way.
just a theory. Is it reasonable to assume that whatever Rey is going to tell about surma applies to Annie as well?
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kefka
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Post by kefka on Nov 26, 2010 14:58:54 GMT
I believe he's talking about the illness, since he said that after "he could think of nothing but work to cure her". It's probably that Annie was the cause of her death.
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Post by digikitty on Nov 26, 2010 15:07:50 GMT
That makes me wonder if the term Fire Spike has something to do with Surma, rather than Annie. As in, something about Surma's own powers were the cause of her illness.
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Post by q3 on Nov 26, 2010 15:12:03 GMT
Next page: Renard: ...and so, there was nothing that could have saved your mother. It must have been fate. I'm sorry. Your father must have truly loved her to keep searching for a cure after all hope seemed lost. Annie: I'm sorry, too. I don't really know what my mother thought of you, but I know you're my friend. Renard: Make up hug? Annie: Okay. Renard: How about like this?Annie: Well, time to get back in your box. See you next year!
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Kuraimizu
Full Member
Master Librarian
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Post by Kuraimizu on Nov 26, 2010 15:26:06 GMT
www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=805Annie -- "I know that he loved her because he could think of nothing else but working to cure her." Reynard -- "I know why she was like that." So Reynard will now tell Annie why her mother had been dying. From the mood of Reynard's words there are two possibilities. 1. Annie's Dad might have been responsible in some way for Surma's illness and death, as such, considered himself a bad father, and cut contact with Annie. But given the mood and that Reynard knew Surma was Dead upon meeting Annie for the first time, www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=45it is most likely, 2. Annie herself is responsible, for Surma's illness, for one or both of two reasons. --- 1. Surma's body found the Conception, and/or childbirth of Annie difficult, thus weakening Surma's body, which in turn caused her death. --- 2. perhaps psychics, literally pass on their powers to their children, weakening Surma's powers, while allowing Annie to grow into her Power as she grew older, and gained experience. Also why Surma sent Annie to help ghosts and Shinigami [Gods of Death] while at the hospital. to train Annie, and because she herself no longer had the power she needed, as it had been mostly passed on to Annie, weakening Surma's life-force. With either one or Both it also explains why Annie's dad has always been distant from his Daughter. He blames the illness and death of his Wife Surma, on Annie, and so had spend his day's away from his daughter, researching to cure his beloved Wife, and while Annie slept spent time with his wife, and slept when Surma slept. ---------------------------------- Now on to another Crux of the heart of the past. I can Honestly say that Reynard didn't try to kill Annie. Never has and never will, Annie now receives the love Reynardine once had for Surma. And that the Court might have tried to tame him by purposely, allowing him to come under the control of Annie. Event 0 : Annie likes to explore the Court at night, she always takes her Wolf in which she keeps her lock-picks, there are Cameras all over the Court, they have probably not interfered because they consider her an important future psychic. Event 1: The Ceiling Collapsed above Annie's Bunkbed, Reynardine was on pinned on the far side of the roof, with his leg ran through with an Antenna. I think Eglamore under orders of the court broke the ceiling allowing Annie to explore the cause of the night's events. Reynardine would not have been able to break Annie's part of the roof. Event 2 : Reynardine thinks Annie is Surma, then realizes Annie is Surma's Daughter. Noticing the Wolf in Annie's Arms Reynardine Pauses, and thinks. www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=46Event 3 : Annie wanting to meet someone who knew her mother Surma, Decides to try to find Reynardine, leaving the hospital and starts to wander the court, with her Wolf. Having no clue where she is looking for, she stumbles upon a "Secret Train to Large Animal Holding Cells, very hush hush you know" www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=50Obviously another interference from the court. Event 4 : Upon arrival at the cells, the Large door is open a crack. Who leaves the door to a cell unlocked and open? Eglamore has just left, Annie enters, Reynardine -- Antimony, child! I'd hoped you'd come. .... Reynardine -- In fact what I need is... YOUR BODY www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=53Reynardine knowing Eglamore was just on the other side of the door yelled out, Knowing Eglamore would Come rescue Annie. Reynardine even appears to pause and look at Annie before, "attempting to enter Annie's eyes. www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=55As Eglamore rushes in covering Annie's eyes, and dives against the wall turning his back to Reynardine, allowing Reynard the perfect opportunity to possess the Wolf, and them play possum . www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=54----------------------- The proof that Reynardine had been planning to take the Wolf from the Moment he met Annie, is proved by his jeering towards Eglamore, when next Reynardine reveals himself to Annie, Kat, Zimmy, and Gamma Event 5 : Reynard -- Eglamore is a fool! he had no idea I could take any body with eyes. it needn't be one of flesh and blood. www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=81Reynardine Loved Surma, and by association Reynardine loves Annie, he would never dare lay a finger on the Daughter of Surma. Q.E.D.
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Post by Elaienar on Nov 26, 2010 15:28:15 GMT
1. The things that Anthony couldn't think of because he was so busy trying to cure Surma seem likely to include Antimony. 2. Since Renard and Antimony seem to be caught in some kind of sneaky hate-spewing spiral that gets worse and worse, I predict that the next thing Renard will say will be along the lines of "your mother was sick because of you and that's why your father doesn't love you". 3. Perhaps it's just because Anthony has only one expression (as far as I've seen) but Antimony's expressions in this page remind me of Surma's in Ties. Edit:With either one or Both it also explains why Annie's dad has always been distant from his Daughter. He blames the illness and death of his Wife Surma, on Annie, and so had spend his day's away from his daughter, researching to cure his beloved Wife, and while Annie slept spent time with his wife, and slept when Surma slept. I got beat to the punch. XD
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Post by legion on Nov 26, 2010 16:25:14 GMT
My pet theory: neither Annie or Anthony are responsible; Surma was ill before, and originally Anthony was just trying to cure his friend, then they spent so much time together, and love and Annnie happened, while Surma's condition helplessly worsened.
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Post by exdevlin on Nov 26, 2010 16:30:42 GMT
Annie's behaviour reminds me of a pompous know-it-all queen with a sharp tongue and a snappy demanding way of commanding someone to behave. "What? SPEAK UP!"
I hope Rey can cast a bit more light on the whole sad situation. I think he deserves a good come back after Annie's terrible behaviour after she snapped.
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Post by Mezzaphor on Nov 26, 2010 17:10:11 GMT
P.S.: And may be that young man+Rey inside could be her daddy? Sorry, but no. No chance of that. I hope Rey can cast a bit more light on the whole sad situation. I think he deserves a good come back after Annie's terrible behaviour after she snapped. Considering that it was Rey's own dickishness towards Annie and Tony that sparked this outburst, I don't know if Rey really deserves anything more than some time to lick his wounds.
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caelo
New Member
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Post by caelo on Nov 26, 2010 18:09:13 GMT
tuan tuan tauuuun
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Post by simzthedragon on Nov 26, 2010 19:15:44 GMT
Annie seems to be superfluously harsh, which really isn't herself. The only other point that I can recall of her "breaking", so to speak, is when Mort gave her the blinker stone, and she thought it was him marking his territory. So, she isn't very prone to rude outbursts like the one in the recent comics... Well, it's less of an outburst, but more of just her snapping. Was Reynard really the trigger? Is he really getting on her nerves that bad that she had to be so harsh? She seems irrational, but then again, young girls. Not much for logic. But, Annie always seemed so collected... A bit cold, even. But, by no means an attacker. Maybe she caught the SPIDERS! woooooooo
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Post by simzthedragon on Nov 26, 2010 19:18:57 GMT
Annie seems to be superfluously harsh, which really isn't herself. The only other point that I can recall of her "breaking", so to speak, is when Mort gave her the blinker stone, and she thought it was him marking his territory. So, she isn't very prone to rude outbursts like the one in the recent comics... Well, it's less of an outburst, but more of just her snapping. Was Reynard really the trigger? Is he really getting on her nerves that bad that she had to be so harsh? She seems irrational, but then again, young girls. Not much for logic. But, Annie always seemed so collected... A bit cold, even. But, by no means an attacker. Maybe she caught the SPIDERS! woooooooo On Surma's illness... Well, dang. No obvious signs of illness-- sickly look, coughing, blah blah blah. She seemed, well. Perfectly fine. So the answer of her true illness seems so close, yet so far. MONDAY, HURRY.
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Post by the bandit on Nov 26, 2010 19:30:59 GMT
It's about to hit the fan.
This as prelude will definitely increase the awkwardness of Anthony showing up to take Annie for the summer.
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Post by deerinheadlights on Nov 26, 2010 19:44:14 GMT
I have a bad feeling Reynard's going to say something along the lines of 'Anthony used Surma for some kind of entheric experiment that went awry' and Annie's going to be the one saying 'no that can't be true!' :c Or Anthony hated Eglamore like Diego hated green guy and Surma was like Jeanne. Then there's going to be a serious freakout from Annie.
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Post by ciatri on Nov 26, 2010 20:36:57 GMT
If it was Antimony's fault (complicated pregnancy?) , could that be why Renard tried to kill her? If it isn't Annie's fault, then like Mockingbirdflyaway pointed out, being a medium and leaving the forest (especially when Mrs.Dolan pointed out she spent alot of time in the forest) might have made Surma sick, and Anthony was trying to figure out how to cure her, and perhaps Rey blames Anthony for making her sick.
Is it possible that Anthony used Surma for an experiment like deerinheadlights suggested? Sure, why not? We don't know anything about Anthony's character or morals, other than he seemed to be quite stoic when he was younger, but that isn't exactly indicative of being such a b4stard that he would experiment on his wife. Also, would Surma have let Tony (LAUGHING ON LINE) experiment on her in the first place? Unless of course she didn't know he was doing it. (Oh snap.)
I don't think Rey possessed Anthony and conceived Ann, because when he said "My poor Surma, what trickery that man must have used to take her from me" implies that Antimony is indeed Anthony and Surma's baby.
Of course, I could be totally wrong, this is just all speculation.
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Post by Amethyst on Nov 26, 2010 21:52:07 GMT
Also, everyone keep in mind that Tom said explicitly that Reynardine was NOT Annie's father in any way, and that when it showed Rey possessing the man, Tom also said that we did not know who that man was yet.
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Post by elppa284 on Nov 26, 2010 22:25:20 GMT
Oh No. Noooo....I'm not sure I want to know why Annie's mom was sick
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monte
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by monte on Nov 26, 2010 23:00:07 GMT
Nah, i'm not gonna go with something as bad as "anthony experimented on her"... If it was THAT far then i think Rey would have been even more nasty when speaking of Anthony. Frankly i'm more thinking along the lines of Surma's illness being etheric in nature; it was less of an illness and more of a curse. As such Anthony was never equipped to cure her in the first place since he was a man of science
Though i would say the illness is connected with Annie's birth. Like Reynard and possibly Surma herself knew that she was bound to die after giving birth. Hence why Rey knew that Surma was dead after he realized annie was her daughter
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Post by exdevlin on Nov 26, 2010 23:17:05 GMT
I hope Rey can cast a bit more light on the whole sad situation. I think he deserves a good come back after Annie's terrible behaviour after she snapped. Considering that it was Rey's own dickishness towards Annie and Tony that sparked this outburst, I don't know if Rey really deserves anything more than some time to lick his wounds. I see you're on Annie's side . I think it's more a case of them both being stupid, and now it's just going really really far. Still, I don't think this kind of behaviour is characteristic of Annie. Nothing in the comic so far has ever hinted at Annie's capability for this kind of cruelty. Normally, I would've expected her just telling Rey off with the truth, but not making him absolutely eat it and break him the way she's doing now. I kind of want this whole situation to end with awkward silence and shame..
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Post by wombat on Nov 26, 2010 23:26:33 GMT
Rey has become so much more interesting to me this chapter; right now there are two fanvideos I want to make involving him, but at the same time I feel like I should wait for Monday's comic...it's so intense!
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Post by TBeholder on Nov 27, 2010 0:18:18 GMT
So they will sit there together, panting, and try to beat each other until they both can neither feel hits nor can lift a pillow? You know... I like this scene. Moreover, what Annie did in the last panel of #804 began to resemble clinging to Renard and weeping on his shouder while still beating him with her free hand and not letting him get away. That is, if they'd shut up and turn away to wallow in pain and lick their wounds in silence, it could be worse. So at this point they are close enough to hurt and comfort each other at once? Fascinating. Somebody on /co/ pointed out that in Rey and Annie's first meeting, Rey realized that if Annie was Surma's daughter, Surma must be dead. Looks like we might find out why this is true. If Annie was Surma's daughter and appeared in the Court. As people here already pointed out long ago, Anja reacted in much the same way. I assume the main reason is that Surma knew she must (whether as her need or sacred duty) train and keep close her own substitute psychopomp. But of course there can be a lot more to this. Let's nip the sniping at each other over differences in opinion in the bud before it turns stupid, hey? Why? It will be not so funny in end) And anyway it would be far from the first time this board spontaneously roleplays the current scene. For me, it's just a testimony of how viewers are moved by Tom's art. And a reflection of such a love-hate scene can be more interesting than most others. Ouch, that would cut Annie to the bone if that's the case. And IIRC, Antimony is poisonous too. A.k.a. Surma. I doubt it's this simple, but it looks like they have some unusual hereditary properties. You know, Reynard's facial expression (such as it is) doesn't look as vindictive as Annie's did when she dropped her bomb on him. In fact, I don't think he intended to actually tell her. Neither does Annie after the first panel where she finally drives her point home to the hilt. By now it's not even vengeance - they both are in pain enough to hurl things at each other just as a distraction from it. My pet theory: neither Annie or Anthony are responsible; Surma was ill before, and originally Anthony was just trying to cure his friend, then they spent so much time together Maybe, but there's much more to it. By this time Surma broke with James and apparently was out of touch with her once- best friends. And the rest of the Court. So if he was at the court, did he protest having his ladyfriend seduce a potentially dangerous demigod? It seems that she used to go and do whatever she deemed a good idea without asking even James whether he thinks it is. But the time isn't limited this hard. How Anja see it, the goal was merely to distract Renard from Coyote's games. Surma could get his full attention and then act normally - she was loved by "all the people in Forest" as is. It's possible for Renard to dance in circles around "his" lovely queen bee for a few years before he was desperate enough to do something this rash. For example, until he saw that she becomes closer with James. being a medium and leaving the forest (especially when Mrs.Dolan pointed out she spent alot of time in the forest) might have made Surma sick, I propose a name for this theory: "Fairy dust withdrawal syndrome".
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Post by legion on Nov 27, 2010 0:37:01 GMT
Maybe, but there's much more to it. By this time Surma broke with James and apparently was out of touch with the rest of her friends. And the rest of the Court. Hm, maybe she actually kept to herself, she didn't want to sadden or worry her friends with the disease, and she went to see Anthony simply because he was the only doctor she knew and trusted, and not really her friend at the time?
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