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Post by lucifiel on Jun 18, 2010 22:37:53 GMT
If you count the title page, there are currently 18 pages in this chapter. We've still got a ways to go before things start making sense again. Perhaps even longer if there's a Spring Heeled Jack Part 3 involved in this... You know what would be worse? If the comic cut away from the scene and went off into another direction, thus making everyone go "nooo!!!!". ;D
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Post by thesecondbeast on Jun 19, 2010 0:24:45 GMT
Hey, I got it! Annie has bent down and is ducking under that big mass of spiderwebs separating her from the Jacks! Notice how the web is over her head in the last panel. Lord knows I would grimace if I had to duck under some nasty webs like that. I think she is trying to stay ahead of Zimmy and Gamma. She says "don't..." as they come in, stopping because she's not the passive type to wait around for them to come stop her. I don't think that's it. I think she starts to say "Don't go in there, Jack" or something, but stops and glances back when she hears Gamma and Zimmy enter. From the composition of the page, it's clear that she's focusing on Gamma clutching Zimmy's arm. If you look at her shoulders in the grimacing shot, they're tilted slightly, as if she's focused on the other girls now and is beginning to turn to face them. If she were ducking under the webs, she'd be looking at them or facing forward and Tom would include a shot of her looking back to Jack and stooping. Great catch with the web over her head, though! I think instead of her moving under the webs, the spiders are starting to spin a web over/around her. My current theory about the whole chapter is that Zimmy is Annie, Annie is Zimmy, Gamma is Gamma, Spider Jack is Jack, and Normal Jack is Spider Jack's memory of how he became Spider Jack. I think Spider Jack (henceforth Jack) somehow caused a switch in how Annie and Zimmy look in Zimmy's mind to trick Zimmy into entering the spider's nest based on how Zimmy thinks Annie would act. Zimmy took the bait and now the trap is being sprung. THEORY UNRELATED TO "ANNIE IS EGLAMORE GAMMA IS BRINNY BLA BLA BLA": It's possible that Jack believes he decided to do this on his own based on his own motives, but this whole idea was actually planted in his head by the spiders. I also think part of the spiders' ability to infect and control people may be based on people entering their nest of their own free will.
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Post by Fhqwhgads on Jun 19, 2010 1:30:28 GMT
"ANNIE IS EGLAMORE GAMMA IS BRINNY BLA BLA BLA" The entire thread summarized in one sentence! WELL DONE YOU.
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lovecraft1024
Full Member
What does anything mean? Basically
Posts: 118
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Post by lovecraft1024 on Jun 19, 2010 2:42:21 GMT
Hey, thesecondbeast, I can see how you arrived at your theories, but I guess I am not convinced because my theory is also possible :-). Perhaps believing Annie is Zimmy makes it easier for the real Annie to escape unscathed from this little adventure. I don't believe Annie is incapable of what she is doing, especially if just the atmosphere of the place is driving her over the edge. And boy, I sure do hate all those spiders dumping out of that crevice.
But anyway, I sure hope Tom releases us from this trance soon!
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Post by moonhitler on Jun 19, 2010 3:17:49 GMT
It's all a simulation.
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Post by Goatmon on Jun 19, 2010 10:02:44 GMT
Things: - Gamma didn't seem to acknowledge the apparent Zimmy before this page. Now she is gripping her sleeves.
- I think those small white dots are baby spiders.
- What's causing Annie's snarl in the last panel? She's look at something on the ground.
[/b] [/li][/ul] Nurrrrrrrrrsoconfused[/quote] Either she suspects Gamma is more than meets the eye or She's suddenly very jealous of "Zimmy" getting grabbed so intimately.
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Post by todd on Jun 19, 2010 10:38:18 GMT
Perhaps believing Annie is Zimmy makes it easier for the real Annie to escape unscathed from this little adventure. Another reason why the "Annie is really Zimmy" theory may be so popular; ever since Chapter Eleven, Zimmy's sub-plot has become one of the most popular elements of the comic, especially her internal turmoil and relationship with Gamma. (Between Zimmy and Tom both being from Birmingham, and Tom's self-portrait cartoons looking rather Zimmyish, I wonder if he tapped into a deeper part of himself when creating her than when creating Annie, Kat, and the rest of the Court.) This might be why the "Annie is really Zimmy" theory appeals to a lot of the readers; it means the opportunity to delve into Zimmy's psyche further, exploring her feelings for Gamma (and Gamma's for her), her angers, her jealousy, etc.
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Post by Aris Katsaris on Jun 19, 2010 11:12:07 GMT
You seem to be confusing "theory we consider very likely" with "theory we want to be true".
The main reason we consider the theory very likely is because Gamma claimed her to be Zimmy, and she's been acting jealously like Zimmy, and she's been understanding Gamma's telepathy like Zimmy.
But I really don't have any reason to WANT the theory to be true, or to want it to be wrong either. I've no particular desire for it either way. I know *you* have expressed a desire to the contrary, but I've not expressed a desire in its favour.
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Post by Mezzaphor on Jun 19, 2010 11:24:56 GMT
Annie has Zimmy's teeth. Fascinating.
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Post by mudmaniac on Jun 19, 2010 13:22:51 GMT
I dunno about what's happening here. But now every time i catch a world cup match on TV I half expect a spider to jump outta the screen!
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Post by blackboe on Jun 19, 2010 18:28:27 GMT
I think the buzzing is representative of Annie's mental state, possibly the static of Zimmy's Birmingham getting stronger in her head. Might be simultaneous with Annie's obvious breakdown.
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Post by fr4tbrn on Jun 19, 2010 20:28:28 GMT
yup. posted that in the wild speculation thread, but it does make sense. that's why it was all white when annie walked into the room (which was supposed to be the roof), why Annie's scar ain't there, and why Zimmy and Gamma were suspiciously right on the other side of the door when Annie walked in.
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Post by Aris Katsaris on Jun 19, 2010 20:59:23 GMT
A simple simulation wouldn't explain Gamma's telepathy or Annie's Zimmylike emotions. Or at least we haven't had have any hint that the court is be able to simulate telepathy or impose emotions on the participants of a sim.
Court technology wouldn't even be able to simulate Gamma's touch of her hand either, not unless Annie was wearing a suit with haptic feedback. And if it's a simulation but Gamma *isn't* simulated, then that doesn't explain her own changes; why she doesn't seem to know who Annie is, or why she treats Jack as if she's never seen him before either.
Pretty sure this isn't a simulation.
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Post by Zayzie on Jun 19, 2010 21:31:32 GMT
You seem to be confusing "theory we consider very likely" with "theory we want to be true". The main reason we consider the theory very likely is because Gamma claimed her to be Zimmy, and she's been acting jealously like Zimmy, and she's been understanding Gamma's telepathy like Zimmy. But I really don't have any reason to WANT the theory to be true, or to want it to be wrong either. I've no particular desire for it either way. I know *you* have expressed a desire to the contrary, but I've not expressed a desire in its favour. I do not want any particular theory to be true either. Since I really don't see how anyone is getting out of the situation, I don't understand why it would benefit Annie to be Zimmy or Annie to be Annie, everyone's pretty much screwed at this point. I would personally like the Annie look-a-like to be Annie because if she comes to her senses then Annie may be able to get a hold on the situation. My reasons for believing the Anni look-a-like is Zimmy is simply on what I said at the end of my second post in this thread. You can do your best to be someone you're not, but you still have your own flaws to deal with, you can't just get rid of them. So if Zimmy thinks she's Annie or wanted to be Annie to solve this problem, then clearly Zimmy (looking like Annie) will act like Annie. Not only that, there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that Zimmy is having an Annie identity crisis. The following is the evidence everyone has pointed out, thus far. 1) Annie's teeth now look like Zimmy's 2) Annie's hair now looks like Zimmy's 3) Annie has had very Zimmy eyes that are looking more and more like Zimmy's. 4) Annie's jealousy for Gamma touching Zimmy look-a-like is uncharacteristic, since Annie has no reason for this jealousy. Also, that jealousy appears to change Annie's appearance drastically to that of Zimmy's. 5) Annie's posture is much more hunched over and slouching like Zimmy's 6) Annie can talk to Gamma, whereas Gamma does not respond to Zimmy look a like 7) Gamma can talk telepathically to Annie 8) Annie was stuttering at the beginning of entering the illusion, and seems to have had some other moments of awkward behaviours 9) Gamma made the comment this is a illusion 10) Gamma made the comment that Zimmy is pretending to be someone else, "again" 11) Gamma usually knows her ins and outs of Zimmy's mind, so will most likely know what she's talking about 12) Zimmy look-a-like can gop people, according to Jack. 13) Zimmy look-a-like does not have the full-fledged Zimmy accent 14) Zimmy look-a-like acts more like Annie, observant, defensive, and withholding judgment. Not very rash. 15)Gamma has recognized that Zimmy look-a-like has been there but has not referred to her as Zimmy, or treated her like a stranger, or a newcomer. The only person this could be, based on the story thus far, is Annie. Because of all this I find it hard to believe that Annie look a like is not Zimmy, unless Annie's and Zimmy's consciousness fused somehow, but I think Gamma would have noticed that, but it's possible she didn't. However, there is no evidence showing that anyone as the ability to fuse their consciousness with someone else, and we know Annie has more power over something like that than Zimmy does. Zimmy seems to have the power to create things, and confuse others with illusions, not fuse minds. Whereas Annie has more power over the ethereal plane. This theory is also not backed up by the fact that Zimmy look-a-like has yet to show any Zimmy-like traits, and has been fairly calm about all this, so it does not appear they are confused about who they are. There are other theories, like this being a simulation, but there isn't a lot of fact or evidence to support them as much as the identity crisis theory. Did I miss anything?
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Post by todd on Jun 19, 2010 22:19:47 GMT
I think that the story makes more sense (from a storytelling, structural point of view) if this really is Annie, and the nature of the "Nightmare City" is turning her more Zimmy-like, as a parallel to Jack's corruption.
"Spring-Heeled", up to the point where Jones sends Annie onto the roof, focused around Annie discovering what Jack was up to and learning (especially once Jones showed up) that it was her duty, as part of her medium training, to stop him. Jones sends Annie there, expressing her interest in seeing how Annie handles the challenge. From this, we would expect the story from there to be about Annie facing the dangers of this strange place, finding a way to cure Jack (or at least to render him harmless), and learning more about medium duties.
If this is Zimmy thinking that she is Annie, then the story has made a sudden shift to being about Zimmy's adventures in the place, with Annie (who would have to be the Zimmy-look-alike in this hypothesis) doing little more than a couple of cries out (the person who looks like Zimmy is even the last in line of the three girls, while the person who looks like Annie is showing all the initiative in following Jack and trying to stop him) - which seems like a non sequitur.
So while many of the details of the story, from an in-story point of view, support the "this is really Zimmy" hypothesis, the story's structure works better if the person who looks like Annie really is Annie, facing a dangerous challenge as a rite of passage in her medium training. Which is why I support the "this really is Annie" speculation.
(Side-note: under the "Annie really is Annie" theory, Annie's growing more Zimmy-like is more ominous and suspenseful. If this really is Zimmy, then it means that her true nature is merely returning, which would be a good thing. If this is Annie, on the other hand, it means that she may be succumbing more and more to the corruption of this place, just at the point when the tainted Jack is on the verge of triumph - which would also fit the increasing buzz, if it's meant to be something bad, which it probably is.)
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Post by GK Sierra on Jun 19, 2010 22:44:16 GMT
I'd like to draw everyone's attention to the fact that the speech bubble for crazy jack seems to be emanating from the spider on his head now, rather than himself.
Could be mistaken.
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Post by Casey on Jun 19, 2010 22:55:35 GMT
I'd like to draw everyone's attention to the fact that the speech bubble for crazy jack seems to be emanating from the spider on his head now, rather than himself. Could be mistaken. Seems reasonable to me that it could be. Hard to say whether the spider is actually -speaking-, but Tom did recently say on formspring that Jack was being controlled by the spider at this point.
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lero
New Member
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Post by lero on Jun 20, 2010 1:39:16 GMT
I just noticed that the panels are all uneven on this page and I checked the last page, only to find that the distortion began when 'Annie' entered the House of Spiders. Neat touch.
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jon77
Full Member
Posts: 245
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Post by jon77 on Jun 20, 2010 9:56:55 GMT
Obvious, now that you've pointed it out! ;D
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canus
New Member
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Post by canus on Jun 20, 2010 19:28:16 GMT
I would like to note that non-spider-Jack is still dressed like he was the night of the first power station event, and does not seem aware that he has been trapped in a hellish nightmare world for an extended period of time. Spider-Jack has brown slacks.
Jack's Slacks! What does it all mean!
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Post by Per on Jun 20, 2010 20:46:57 GMT
So I've been in the mountains without the internets for a week fighting off elks and lemmings, I'm sure all the wild speculation has been cleared up in the three updates since I departed. Just let me catch up with the rest of you... What is this I don't even Right, I rescind all my previous speculation (including Annie being Zimmy). BUT. Instead I will predict the next bonus page, panel by panel. Look at me go!
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Post by legion on Jun 20, 2010 22:06:41 GMT
Haha.
What?
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Post by Aris Katsaris on Jun 21, 2010 0:58:16 GMT
Marvellously disturbing, Per!
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Post by paxjax123 on Jun 21, 2010 2:07:43 GMT
I'm greatly disturbed.
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Post by 5lizak on Jun 21, 2010 5:53:38 GMT
And the entire spider problem was trivialized when Psychoannie found she could burn it with blinker stone fire.
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Post by mojojojo on Jun 21, 2010 9:22:20 GMT
Damn fine Coffee.
Since it's been about 15 years since I've seen that, I'd forgotten what he actually says at that point.
Excellent referencing sir!
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