coyotagoat
Junior Member
Helluva poker face.
Posts: 65
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Post by coyotagoat on Jun 16, 2010 11:34:03 GMT
Hmm.... I think the 'politeness' factor may have been left behind when we first saw her showing signs of fatigue in Zimmingham, but if she is zimmy, wouldnt she try to act like Annie if she thought she was her? Argh, confusing @_@ Another point; the idea has probably been brought up before, but what if Zimmy thinks she is Gamma? In the sense that she is (at least subconsciously) trying to mimic the role her protector plays for her, while forcing others into specific places in her fantasy. I know there is probably some evidence to the contrary, but I'm just speculation-storming here. (Like brainstorming, but for fans )
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jon77
Full Member
Posts: 245
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Post by jon77 on Jun 16, 2010 11:45:12 GMT
Boy, and I thought the comic was confusing. It's got nothing on the theories posted here.
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Post by Mezzaphor on Jun 16, 2010 11:57:08 GMT
Not only does Gamma seem to be ignoring Zimmy, Zimmy doesn't seem to notice that she's being ignored.
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Post by hal9000 on Jun 16, 2010 12:08:46 GMT
Note: do not attempt to invade or disturb a giant nest of spiders without a flamethrower (or at least a very large can of brake cleaner).
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Post by nekosune on Jun 16, 2010 13:35:24 GMT
Panel 5, the rings around her eyes, aren;t they like the ones Jack had at the start of the stuff after the power plant's first appearence? and kinda similar to Zimmy's
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lovecraft1024
Full Member
What does anything mean? Basically
Posts: 118
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Post by lovecraft1024 on Jun 16, 2010 14:32:09 GMT
I"m suffering from weirdness-overload...
Anyway, the thing Annie has going for over Jack is that Annie kind of knows what to expect (i.e., spider-infestation), where Jack, first time in, somehow landed in the spiders and had no idea what was going to happen to him. I'm hoping that's enough to save Annie from this situation.
The way she's drawn with the determination on her face reminds me of the last frame of the previous chapter when she looked up at Jack flying to the window. Like being fed up with someone. That's what makes me think Annie is really Annie.
The "I-we" thing could be that she feels instinctively that it's her that's doing this, but she wants to include the others (drag them along).
There's a fine line between bravery and foolishness. Annie is definitely flirting with that line!
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Post by aaroncampbell on Jun 16, 2010 14:57:14 GMT
I think that after this chapter, Tom owes us a nice, easy, pretty, colorful, light-hearted chapter. Please, Tom? Whaddya say? My brain needs a rest! ;D
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Post by djublonskopf on Jun 16, 2010 15:14:30 GMT
I think the colors of the speech bubbles for Zimmy and Gamma have changed. They look more similar. Obviously, this illusion is a lot more convoluted than what we've seen, what with Gamma's mistaking Annie for Zimmy. Maybe we're seeing things as they aren't? Zimmy and Gamma have always had the exact same color speech bubble. I've wondered (privately) if one of them isn't a creation or extension of the other . . . but for the time being I assume they're distinct people who are just strongly identified with each other.
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Post by bookworm on Jun 16, 2010 15:25:02 GMT
What Annie really needs to do at some point is just point at Zimmy and say, "But Zimmy is right there!". I think Zimmy is a figment of Annie's imagination/Nobody, and Gamma can't see her at all. Also, this chapter is really freaking me out. I think that after this chapter, Tom owes us a nice, easy, pretty, colorful, light-hearted chapter. Please, Tom? Whaddya say? My brain needs a rest! ;D Yes, please!
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jun 16, 2010 15:53:11 GMT
I wonder - if the Jack is a memory, and the Zimmy and Gamma are memories as well, could this be how Zimmy was originally infected? If Gamma didn't go into the nest, could that be why she isn't all black-eyed? Of course, that doesn't explain why Zimmy doesn't have spider webs on her, but it could be why Jack's eyes are becoming more and more Zimmy-like. Here's some more wildspec for you guys. I don't think Zimmy got infected, I think she's the source of the infection. From stuff on Formspring about Zimmy's childhood I figure that she was born with her reality-warping powers switched on. That by itself would've made growing up normal impossible, and there may also have been events we're unaware of. If I'm right Zimmy is perpetually on the edge of a psychotic break. Her demons, whatever developed from the standard delusions and voices in her head from childhood trauma, are not real except to Zimmy. However, because of her powers they have a sort of potential, if they can just get around the mind that both knows they're not real and believes in them. Even though they may be hostile to her and her friends, in a sense Zimmy is the Spider Queen because they depend on her for existence and purpose (to the extent they have a purpose). If she could master her powers they wouldn't exist, or would exist to serve her conscious wishes. Zimmingham and the generic Nobodies are just the fragments of her memories of sunny Birmingham, but stronger Nobodies (non-entities like Fake Kat, and Fake whoever-Jack-met) can be made by her or by anyone with etheric potential visiting Zimmingham (Zimmy's mind). Nobodies can get "out" by trapping/possessing those people (therefore Spider) but Zimmy is still the ultimate goal, thus Jack's obsession with Zimmy. If they can collapse what's left of Zimmy's psyche then they can all get out (or more likely they won't because they need Zimmy's mind too, but Zimmy's powers will run amok).
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Post by violet on Jun 16, 2010 16:11:35 GMT
Zimmy, you're beside yourself. (Note: bodily disconnection is another trauma thing.) The mind is but a plaything of the body Funny thing: this is actually true, right? I mean, the mind is a plaything of the body. The mind is created by the body, and if you alter the body (for example: if you ingest lysergic acid diethylamide), you can alter the mind. I don't know if this is what Rey meant, but it's kindof spiffy to think so.
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Post by lurker on Jun 16, 2010 16:12:08 GMT
It's "The" spider's nest. Somethng special about the place? I wonder if that's referring to this spider...
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Post by TBeholder on Jun 16, 2010 16:52:09 GMT
I wonder who exactly Gamma thinks Zimmy is. So far Gamma didn't show she noticed Zimmy at all. It's "The" spider's nest. Somethng special about the place? I suspect that she's Jack's phantom. "The spider's nest" - where Jack met his spider, that's all. This also explains previous strips. Of these four, Jack is the only one who may see "oh, no, Zimmy's illusions!" as less than profoundly duh-tastic. And may see Zimmy making someone disappear by touch as plausible - Annie (let alone Gamma) knows that no way in hell Zimmy would walks close to nobodies if she can avoid this. So - busted at last. Probably original Strange Girls aren't there at all. Note: do not attempt to invade or disturb a giant nest of spiders without a flamethrower (or at least a very large can of brake cleaner). But Annie have a flamethrower. Always. I think that after this chapter, Tom owes us a nice, easy, pretty, colorful, light-hearted chapter. Please, Tom? ...about birds and fairies. ;D
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Post by atteSmythe on Jun 16, 2010 16:55:55 GMT
Panel 5, the rings around her eyes, aren;t they like the ones Jack had at the start of the stuff after the power plant's first appearence? and kinda similar to Zimmy's She's been suffering that a bit since entering Birminghell. Also compare the gunk around her eyes in the second panel of 733 to Jack's earlier symptoms (say 706-707).
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Post by mojojojo on Jun 16, 2010 17:02:49 GMT
[quote author=djublonskopf board=general thread=1002 post=39699 Zimmy and Gamma have always had the exact same color speech bubble. I've wondered (privately) if one of them isn't a creation or extension of the other . . . but for the time being I assume they're distinct people who are just strongly identified with each other.[/quote] In panel 3 Zimmy has Annie's speech bubble colour. In the other panels, Zimmys is a slightly purple. Same throughout the next few pages. If there aren't other occassions with Zimmy speaking in Annie's colour, I'd guess it might be a slight slip up on Tom's part. With regards to the text bubbles lately... I don't see any colour change, but you could always open a graphics editor and check.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jun 16, 2010 18:04:26 GMT
The mind is but a plaything of the body Funny thing: this is actually true, right? I mean, the mind is a plaything of the body. The mind is created by the body, and if you alter the body (for example: if you ingest lysergic acid diethylamide), you can alter the mind. I don't know if this is what Rey meant, but it's kindof spiffy to think so. I think so too. A while back we had a long discussion about the impact on Reynard's mood/mind after he changes his shape. My argument is best summed up here in this huge post.
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Post by Zayzie on Jun 16, 2010 18:05:25 GMT
Why does everyone keep saying Gamma isn't recognizing Zimmy? In the comic before this, she looks at the person who physically looks like Zimmy and says "Oh no we're all inside one of Zimmy's illusions!" If she were just referring to her and Zimmy, we would be fine, and would work better if she were staring off into the middle of nowhere. However she said, we're all, which, in my opinion, is used to refer to a group of people, not jut two. She's also looking at the person who looks like Zimmy. So this is why I think Annie is Zimmy and Zimmy is Annie, still.
Gamma hasn't given any hit that the Zimmy we see is someone else, or a nobody. In today's strip, Zimmy even touches Gamma, meaning either the person who looks like Zimmy should've gopped or, Gamma doesn't think that Zimmy is a nobody or she doesn't feel threatened by it. At this point, I would think that all four of them are in fact in one of Zimmy's illusions.
Also, I can believe that Annie acting like a hero is in character with Annie, but if Zimmy thinks she's Annie then I think she would act like she would think Annie would act. However, she doesn't completely know Annie, so she may come off as aggressive. I can believe that Annie might be Annie simply because she's displaying the same symptoms as Jack, however her condition appears to escalating much faster than Jack's, if it is.
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Post by Ulysses on Jun 16, 2010 18:14:53 GMT
Another reason why 'Annie' might actually be Zimmy: In 733, why did RealJack jump out then, rather than earlier when MemoryJack had been sitting talking with 'Zimmy'? Because 'Annie' had just turned up, and Jack wanted her, not the Zimmy that looks like Zimmy. And Zimmy, looking and thinking like Annie, follows him because that's the sort of thing Annie does.
Also, if anyone knows who Zimmy is, it's going to be Gamma, and I'm willing to trust her judgement.
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Post by TBeholder on Jun 16, 2010 18:33:01 GMT
In panel 3 Zimmy has Annie's speech bubble colour. In the other panels, Zimmys is a slightly purple. Same throughout the next few pages. If there aren't other occassions with Zimmy speaking in Annie's colour, I'd guess it might be a slight slip up on Tom's part. In #74? Yeah, seems so. With regards to the text bubbles lately... I don't see any colour change, but you could always open a graphics editor and check. Colour picker says on either pair it's the same (±1 or so in components).
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Post by warrl on Jun 16, 2010 19:15:02 GMT
Why does everyone keep saying Gamma isn't recognizing Zimmy? In the comic before this, she looks at the person who physically looks like Zimmy and says "Oh no we're all inside one of Zimmy's illusions!" If she were just referring to her and Zimmy, we would be fine, and would work better if she were staring off into the middle of nowhere. However she said, we're all, which, in my opinion, is used to refer to a group of people, not jut two. How about three? Gamma, Annie (the one that Gamma thinks is Zimmy), and Spider-Jack? Possibly she was also referring to Memory-Jack. She has also not touched or otherwise directly and specifically interacted with that Zimmy. It isn't clear whether there was contact. Gamma's position and expression in that panel is entirely explainable by her being terrified of the spider-house and having just gotten her arm back from Annie who was trying to drag her in. (Please note, I did NOT say that Zimmy DIDN'T touch Gamma.)
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Post by Gemini Jim on Jun 16, 2010 19:20:43 GMT
But Annie have a flamethrower. Always. Oh yes, the Blinker Stone . I'm not sure how effective it would be as a weapon. Of course, I wonder what would happen if she tried to use the Stone while she was in etheric space (different sort of etheric space, but still etheric in nature, it seems). Could be one of those "put a portable hole into a bag of holding" situations (world explodes) or it could just "blink" her back to reality.
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Post by warrl on Jun 16, 2010 19:26:16 GMT
Speculation: Anything that Annie can do with the blinker stone, she can also do with Coyote's Tooth.
But maybe she doesn't know that yet.
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Post by Gemini Jim on Jun 16, 2010 19:39:44 GMT
ah, here's the comic I was looking for. using the Blinker Stone to enter etheric space, but not using it while in etheric space. the Coyote's Tooth might be more useful here. slicing and dicing spiders, assuming that she's learned to control it.
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Post by xanbcoo on Jun 16, 2010 20:30:30 GMT
Tom's buzzing comments are reminding me of the Vuvuzela horns at the World Cup.
Edit: Haha, I wasn't the first to make that connection. Disregard.
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Post by Rex on Jun 16, 2010 21:10:07 GMT
Like others have brought up, it looks like Gamma can't see, hear or feel Zimmy at all. To her it's always been Annie, her, and Jack as of a few pages ago. It'd explain Gamma never acknowledging Zimmy's existance in any of those scenes.
Thinking back on all this, it's pretty clear this is a trap. Tom's buzz comments, Spider-Jack and the spider and web imagery, and his stated motives all support this.
Here's an idea: If someone is trying to prevent you from getting what you want (ie: warning the target) and you have some measure of control over etheric stuff, why not set something up? You have your target that will likely avoid you like the plague, someone who is looking for you, and a third party who could be a problem.
The solution? Switch your target with the one that's looking for you and mess with the perceptions of those in said trap. This way Spider-Jack has his prey come running into his web after some baiting.
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Post by mojojojo on Jun 16, 2010 21:40:33 GMT
the Coyote's Tooth might be more useful here. slicing and dicing spiders, assuming that she's learned to control it. Good call - might be useful to get out of a spider web. Of course we don't even know if Annie has it with her, or if it exists in etheric space, or if it works there.
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Post by Gemini Jim on Jun 16, 2010 21:46:53 GMT
Here's an idea: If someone is trying to prevent you from getting what you want (ie: warning the target) and you have some measure of control over etheric stuff, why not set something up? You have your target that will likely avoid you like the plague, someone who is looking for you, and a third party who could be a problem. The solution? Switch your target with the one that's looking for you and mess with the perceptions of those in said trap. This way Spider-Jack has his prey come running into his web after some baiting. I like this idea. Ignoring for a moment the "who's who" question (which I suspect might never get adequately resolved), why did Jack invite Annie to the power station in the first place, if not to get her tangled up in his trap along with Zimmy? (And he obviously considers Rey to be a threat as well, because he tried to capture him, too.)
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Post by Rex on Jun 16, 2010 21:57:38 GMT
Definitely. He fully intended on disposing of Rey, and taking Annie along with him to the rooftop. If he let Rey tag along this wouldn't have gotten that far, and if Jack planned on doing violence to Annie, Gamma, or even the "demon girl" Rey would put an end to that real quick.
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Post by Casey on Jun 16, 2010 22:09:28 GMT
The problem with the idea that the whole plan was to trap Annie is, Jack was content to leave her at the station pining over Reynardine. A good plan is one that doesn't depend on another person making a choice that you can't control.
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Post by hal9000 on Jun 16, 2010 22:13:01 GMT
Fire is a more effective weapon against large numbers of spiders than a knife (no matter how sharp the knife...), something I can attest from personal experience . That said, I don't think we've ever seen Annie use her firestarter/blinker powers offensively, against another being, even though she should theoretically be capable of it.
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