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Post by saardvark on Feb 10, 2022 19:18:40 GMT
Still, what Kat has achieved here could be seen as semi-god-like, creating a new, sapient sort-of life... The NP are essentially fully organic shells (now that they have Juliette's engineered bio-brains as well). The only non-organic part is the robot code that is transferred into the bio-brains via Kat's computer and Diego's eldritch demon-green arrow of soul trapping. That is a pretty impressive feat, which Loup is starting to grasp: "Yet.... these creatures she made..." Loup may be turning some more attention to Kat in the future... No, their bodies are artificial, except for the brain. oh, agreed, they are artificial, but she grows them, they have muscles, tendons (or very similar structures) and they need normal food and process it into energy and growth/repair similarly. I figured they were organic based, mostly at least.... they are artificial organics. (EDIT: I'm meaning organic in the chemistry/biological sense, not the natural-vs-man-made sense)
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Post by saardvark on Feb 10, 2022 3:02:13 GMT
So... The robots do have a kind of life, but a kind "Loup" was unaware of... okay, but similar to the glass-eyed men? That's a bit surprising. I think this just means that the robots were sapient and so were the glass-eyed men. Loup isn't impressed. Kat is an angel to them, but what is an angel next to a god? Again, he's not impressed. I don't see evidence that loup can't see what Kat looks like etherically. Still, what Kat has achieved here could be seen as semi-god-like, creating a new, sapient sort-of life... The NP are essentially fully organic shells (now that they have Juliette's engineered bio-brains as well). The only non-organic part is the robot code that is transferred into the bio-brains via Kat's computer and Diego's eldritch demon-green arrow of soul trapping. That is a pretty impressive feat, which Loup is starting to grasp: "Yet.... these creatures she made..." Loup may be turning some more attention to Kat in the future...
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Post by saardvark on Feb 4, 2022 0:17:26 GMT
The more this goes on, the more confused I am about who/what Loup is. ... Where I get lost is, why did this cause the creation of a new personality? Why Loup, instead of:
1. Ysengrin, with Coyote's powers and memories added
2. Coyote, basically overwriting the less forceful Ysengrin
Instead of either of these we got Loup, who claims to be a new creature. In fact, he is! Even Coyote says this! But why??? Even Ysengrin and Renard both acknowledged that Loup was a new creature, though Renard thought he had more Coyote in him than Ysengrin.
I can think of very little that has happened that is similar at all to this - where two entities combined and created a new one.
1. Forest Annie + Court Annie = Super Annie (or however you care to think of current Annie) 2. Pipe robot + Loup (or maybe Coyote, depending on what happened and when) = Jerrik
I"m probably overthinking this, but what else is new? Maybe a (very nerdy!) Math/Physics/Engineering analogy will work: If personalities are thought of as multi-component vectors, combining them is best thought of mathematically as not a dot product, but a *cross* product. Meaning, their combination is more complex than simply adding together the components - and not restricted to the plane that the two of them define, but rather is free to head off in an entirely new and different direction. Combining Ys and Coyote is more than just adding their personality traits together - their combination can interact in complex ways to produce something quite new - and can head of into rather different, even surprising directions. Think torque.... and apologies for the nerd-out!
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Post by saardvark on Feb 3, 2022 3:07:42 GMT
I still think "Loup" basically is Ysengrin, just with Coyote's power and a few tweaks he thought would make him an ideal god. I don't. Ysengrin had many flaws but he was honest even in his brutality. Straightforward. He didn't play games. He either ate you or didn't. This whole "let's split Annie in two to confuse everybody and amuse myself while using it as pressure to force people into advancing my agenda", that was very much a Coyote kind of mind game. Coyote told Loup he was "less than the sum of his parts" and I feel like Loup is inferior to both Coyote and Ysengrin on pretty much every metric that matters. Yes. And ultimately, it looks like Loup may have been limited to be exactly what Coyote wanted him to be, and no more. Meaning, some of Coyote's powers, wisdom, control were purposely secreted away, and Loup never allowed to absorb them. So Loup is, in the end, an unruly plaything/construct of our semi-deceased Forest god: an enraged, deranged Ysengrin decorated with fragmentary shards of an incomplete Coyote.
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Post by saardvark on Jan 30, 2022 12:35:44 GMT
And next we'll find that Shell wore that fetching outfit because she's dating Tony. I kid. I like your enthusiasm 🙂
Oh, and I'll be very surprised if it turns out Shell is dating anyone at all, though I imagine she'd love to date (or jump to marrying) Aata if he'd go for it! Not going to elaborate on why I think that. Well, maybe Shell wore that outfit because she thought Aata would be meeting them there, and she wanted to see if she could get him to view her a bit "differently"....
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Post by saardvark on Jan 22, 2022 1:58:54 GMT
It may be time for me to get a new ICON <3 panel 5 "mature take charge" Annie, perhaps?
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Post by saardvark on Jan 20, 2022 0:38:33 GMT
Its interesting that Shell says "The less he knows about this, the better". This seems to imply that she'd be willing to keep Kat-Lab a secret even from Aata. So Shell is not completely loyal to Aata after all? Is Annie in part working to peel Shell off to work with team Kat (at least part time)?
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Post by saardvark on Jan 20, 2022 0:18:05 GMT
alternately, Annie reached out to Shell to propose a meeting with her and Aata, but Aata didn't want to get directly involved. Or Shell never asked him, telling Annie it would be unlikely for him to come/see things "their way". Perhaps Shell is more open minded than her mentor, and/or disillusioned with the shadow men, something Annie sensed. " Some guests" plural were coming and Shell went on about how good it was Aata wasn't there a few pages back. I think that means Aata was coming but didn't, which (all things held equal) should mean that he knew about the meeting. If Antimony reached out first then I don't think the dialogue on this page would play out the way it did. Juliette asking Shell what she's doing there is possibly just a rhetorical question calling Shell out, but if invited Shell could simply reply that she was invited and therefore can talk however she wants. Juliette might not know Shell was invited if she was invited, though she didn't seem surprised to see Shell, but Shell should know. Instead Shell goes after Juliette's credibility in panels 3 and 5. Also in panel 5 Shell's sweating a bit, which I think shows she's got something at stake that's currently under threat. Shell doesn't want anything herself from Kat or Antimony that I'm aware of, so most likely she's worried about the trust she's trying to fudge build and the risk is that without it she's let Aata down. Luckily for Shell Antimony's stepping in to shut down the exchange, which (assuming they don't continue the line of inquiry later) proves that aggressing can be an effective tactic sometimes. Whoever reached out first, Aata not being there is still a power move. It's arguably more rude if he asked for the invite and then only sent Shell, but either way Shell just doesn't have the answers that Antimony and Kat want and probably can't agree to do anything herself that either Kat or Antimony wants. That postpones the meaningful discussion in a way that benefits Aata. Partly agreed. The "some guests" implies Annie clearly thought Aata was coming, but in the end, he didn't. I don't see why Shell would set up the meeting, saying Aata would come and then he's a no show, which is kind of a dis right away, and gets the meeting she set up off to a bad start. Annie has reached out to Shell before, and her medium nature, just makes me feel she's the more likely initiator. It's also possibly interesting Annie calls them "guests", suggesting they were invited, rather than visitors, which she might have used if the ex-SM initiated the meeting. (Not so sure on that idea tho...) Annie knows Shell better than Aata, so I'm assuming she was the contact. If Annie gave the invite, I think it's still possible that Shell decided not to relay the invite to Aata as well, preferring to scout things out herself first, and now she's relieved she didn't. Maybe this scenario is less likely though, you're right. Or perhaps Aata has sent Shell out ahead to "scout out the terrain" (of what she finds is Kat's New Peeps Workshop, LLC.), preferring to remain non-committal for now. Or it could be a power play, as you suggest. Maybe Shell didn't even realize he wasn't coming ("I'll meet you there...")! Actually, it's pretty bold to allow Shell and certainly Aata to visit Kat's workshop at all! Frankly, I'm surprised that A&K felt confident enough in their read of the two that they wouldn't go back to the Court or SM and tell the Court/SM everything. According to Arthur, Juliette has been able to keep KNPW, LLC completely hidden so far; seems dangerous to let two of certainly mixed allegiance in on the secret. Juliette is more suspicious (maybe with good reason, being more intimate with the SM and their thinking and ways) and I think she is being rhetorical and calling Shell out. Shell could reply as you suggest, but if she's trying to build/fudge trust as you also suggest (and I agree, it seems like this meeting could be angling towards cooperation or at least info sharing), its not a very good strategy to seem so mysterious and non-forthcoming.
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Post by saardvark on Jan 19, 2022 12:05:32 GMT
Trust is earned. Usually it's earned over time with shared experiences and a degree of intimacy, like sharing secrets. Sometimes it can be bought with other people's intimate secrets though, particularly if the prospective truster is young, inexperienced, or not paying close attention. [edit] Also: Since this meeting has gone on for a while and no mention has been made of the guests that were supposed to be coming I think that's evidence that Aata and Shell were the expected guests. Aata not being here allows Shell to straightforwardly spill what she knows about the Court's plans. Since they didn't know about the robots and Juliette, they expected Kat and Antimony to be short on allies and perhaps panicked about the program and Antimony being left behind when the Court moves, which would make them want to know what Aata knows but Shell doesn't. In summary, build the appearance of trust while actually keeping your cards close to your vest, place the kids into a subordinate position where they're going to have to ask for another meeting or whatever, and get talked up by your biggest fan. Good power move, just not enough info about the target, and it reveals that Aata wants something that Kat and/or Antimony have that should require trust (or a decent imitation). I'd guess Kat in absence of any other info except we do know something that Antimony could do for Aata; she could blab about what she and Coyote have been talking about. I bet he wants to know that really badly though he may be disappointed with what it is.[/edit] alternately, Annie reached out to Shell to propose a meeting with her and Aata, but Aata didn't want to get directly involved. Or Shell never asked him, telling Annie it would be unlikely for him to come/see things "their way". Perhaps Shell is more open minded than her mentor, and/or disillusioned with the shadow men, something Annie sensed.
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Post by saardvark on Jan 4, 2022 22:51:33 GMT
I wonder if it is bit like the Court/SM are insisting reality is described by classical mechanics, very deterministic and predictable, while Coyote/Forest/ether saying its described by quantum mechanics, more probabilistic and uncertain (chaotic?) and indeterminate - you can pinpoint understanding of one thing and then some other aspect escapes you entirely (Heisenberg uncertainty). Reality, of course, is described by both- each in their own "realm" where best applied. So they are both right, but only part; both are needed for a complete picture/understanding of GCU.
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Post by saardvark on Dec 17, 2021 12:41:24 GMT
Piter is missing the stained lips and bushy eyebrows (Lynch vers.) I hope his eyes don't roll up into his head while he's cutting hair! (Villenueve vers.)
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Post by saardvark on Dec 17, 2021 0:39:55 GMT
If Kat can transfer robot brain into an organic synth-brain, could she do a synth to synth transfer? If so, an NP could be made effectively immortal - you just transfer the brain into a new body when the old one wears out... ...though there may be a problem though if the transfer goes through the green arrow with ownership and such. Clippy returns? Far more plausible to me than brain transfer is simple part-swapping: no reason the robots have to die if they can just swap out their old modular organs for freshly synthesized ones! Well, I mean, there are still plenty of ways for them to die, but not from old age like us humans.
Also, I'm pretty sure that since Kat permanently changed the arrow's metaphysical contract to be multi-use, Clippy won't have to show up again, even for synth-to-synth transfers. Salsamel & Clippy are very good at their jobs, at that means thinking ahead!
The problem, though, is that the organic synth brains will likely age as well, and eventually need to be replaced. Newly minted synth brains will likely have basic "in common" core abilities (respiration, digestion, simple movement, etc), but won't have the now individual "personalities" and memories of their NP owners. That information will need transfering to the new synth brain. So you have to have a synth-synth transfer at some point, or the NP as a unique personality dies when their synth brain ages out. EDIT: (It's unclear yet if synth-synth or human-synth is even possible, though...) You might be right about Clippy though!
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Post by saardvark on Dec 16, 2021 15:54:49 GMT
I was a bit baffled by this at first. But seeing as they just underwent a radical physical and mental transformation, one that has changed their whole world and opened whole new horizons for them, I guess you could say they are teenagers? I think it's a given that their new bodies will grow and age. What I wonder is whether dying is part of the package, which seems highly likely; I don't think they're going to be thrilled about the prospect. Machines wear out and malfunction, too. They won't be unfamiliar with that, at least. But death as a necessary corollary of growth? Good question and I would be surprised to discover that any of them, including Robot himself, had considered the interrelationship between the two. If Kat can transfer robot brain into an organic synth-brain, could she do a synth to synth transfer? If so, an NP could be made effectively immortal - you just transfer the brain into a new body when the old one wears out... ...though there may be a problem though if the transfer goes through the green arrow with ownership and such. Clippy returns?
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Post by saardvark on Dec 12, 2021 2:34:38 GMT
Finally a solution to Annie's "can't have kids without dying" problem. Easy to romance new men. Kat can make the new kids to order... you can have kids with whatever appearance you want that stay the age you like them best. When she gets old she can have the new person husband still young and strong to change her diapers, etc.
As for the question of eating vs. recharging, I guess you could say that it's a trade-off of efficiency for flexibility, which, in a way, is what Kat's work is all about! Bodies of metal and plastic, minds of silicon, and energy based on high-power alternating current might make for a very efficient, but very static sort of creature. As you say, the old robots probably had to rely on charging docks, which in turn are reliant on the Court's infrastructure and power plants. In contrast, the New People can probably eat all sorts of stuff, and do so anywhere they want. Even if they were in the middle of the wilderness, far from any sign of civilization, they could still survive by eating natural organic material! Furthermore, human bodies are already a heckuva lot more complex than robot ones: circulatory systems, muscular systems, etc. all need a steady stream of raw material in addition to energy, so the digestive system is necessary to support the wide variety of other functions that make humans so flexible and good at adapting to new situations. And, if I might get a little more philosophical...hunger can be a very strong motivator to invent and change things, just like pain. Robot's creepy cult inspiring new religious sect seems to be, ah, extremely interested in that aspect of the human experience, and would probably be outraged and confused if it wasn't given to them along with everything else.
I think this mostly begs the question of: will Annie have children, and if so, will she transfer her human consciousness to an artificial body so that her flame dies and is tranferred to her child, while her mind remains? (And is that what Kat's been building to all these years?) So far, we've only seen Kat able to transfer digital/robot consciousness into a synth-organic brain. Not clear if she can do organic to organic transfer. There'd likely be serious ethical and ownership issues with that. Indeed, if she could do it, near eternal life (in a succession of NPs) would become possible for humans....
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Post by saardvark on Dec 9, 2021 3:27:57 GMT
My impression was that the Seraphs had always been sorta interested. in evolving/improving into something better. Before Kat, the robots had been sort of stuck. They could repair themselves, but not improve themselves. Then S13 saw what Kat could do with her early experiments on his own form, became a "true believer", and began preaching the "religion" of a new Creator, with Kat/Angel-driven robotic improvement/transformation. Actually, Robot called Kat an Angel the very first time he saw her. That we know of anyway. It almost me think that the robots may have had prior knowledge of an Angel, and what she looked like, either through prophecy or time travel.
Really, at that time, he seemed more impressed with Annie (aka Mummy) than Kat! I don't remember ever seeing another robot that was impressed with Annie, actually. I mean, none that dislike her either, but she isn't the Angel nor anyone else's Mum.
I'm not quite sure when S13 started his cult. Certainly the "Angel" thing caught on pretty early, and spread.
Also, there is some evidence that S13 may have started his cult before ever meeting Kat. Maybe he knew Kat would be the Angel, maybe he just believed there would be an Angel, maybe he was just delusional. Maybe he was spreading disinformation and rumors about something else, for some other reason? Who can say?
Agree that the Seraphs always had their own agenda, but I'm not sure we know what that agenda is.
Robot is the "John the Baptist" figure of the Angel cult. He "prepares the way" for the Angel, building support for her among the bots, a prophet of the Creator who is the source of their evolution. He facilitates their transformation into NP and embodies the evolution himself, incompletely transformed, remaining partly robot, part NP - a perfect bridging figure between the world of bots and the world of what they may become. Very cool and rich symbolism here.... hats off to Tom!
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Post by saardvark on Dec 8, 2021 17:15:53 GMT
"this little step helps us on our path" Pretty sure that's the path Robot has in mind, not whatever Kat's plan is. "our" = robots and NP, not Kat and Robot. I'm getting a really creepy "cult leader" vibe from S13. Acting very parental here. Oh well, it isn't a problem until it is.
I'd still like to know what happened to cause him to evolve from "a Seraph model robot" to what he is now. Perhaps we'll learn more this chapter.
My impression was that the Seraphs had always been sorta interested. in evolving/improving into something better. Before Kat, the robots had been sort of stuck. They could repair themselves, but not improve themselves. Then S13 saw what Kat could do with her early experiments on his own form, became a "true believer", and began preaching the "religion" of a new Creator, with Kat/Angel-driven robotic improvement/transformation.
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Post by saardvark on Dec 8, 2021 12:52:04 GMT
I guess guess Orange-curly and Formerly-pipe-bot are a bit too awed by the Angel to hand her the CPUs directly (even though that is what clipboard-NP said to do)... Instead, they take them to her Prophet Maximus, Robot, who seems to be coordinating CPU retrieval.
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Post by saardvark on Dec 6, 2021 18:17:00 GMT
... and we have our first NP with a "standard human" (or close, anyway) iris color: panel 2, blonde NP at left. So the don't all have unusual, non-human colors....
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Post by saardvark on Dec 5, 2021 3:27:26 GMT
sorry if this was asked already: do all the NPs have unusual colored irises? Here we have red, pink and bright flourescent green displayed - Albert had a similar green. Is this on purpose (planned by Kat?), so that NPs are distinguishable from "mundanes"? It seems unlikely that the robots would have all chosen unusual colors in unison.... or that truly random colors would have yielded only these unusual ones so far. But we have a small sample size so far.... There was a tab for eyes back during character generation and we see the eye color changing in the different panels. Original robot eye colors were an option, at least at that point. Kat mentions keeping the randomizer parameters to certain limits later, seemingly in reaction to robots choosing random bodies. The randomizer may have been tweaked to make original robot eye colors and other robot-like features more rare, possibly. If so that would mean that original robot eye colors might be more common among those who customized their bodies instead of hitting the randomizer button. so far we have: Albert. chosen. fluorescent robot green library-bot chosen. bright pink pipe-bot. random. fluorescent robot green clipboard-bot. ? red so whether chosen or randomized, all NP eye colors are robot/non-human so far. If there is a 50-50 chance for a selection (however made) to go typical/non-typical color, there's only about a 6% chance that the first 4 we see are all non-typical. Eye color might have been a choice, but maybe the range of valid choices was constrained. The randomizer might have been weighted towards non-typical colors. We clearly need more data though to be more sure if something is weird...
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Post by saardvark on Dec 4, 2021 14:35:29 GMT
sorry if this was asked already:
do all the NPs have unusual colored irises? Here we have red, pink and bright flourescent green displayed - Albert had a similar green. Is this on purpose (planned by Kat?), so that NPs are distinguishable from "mundanes"? It seems unlikely that the robots would have all chosen unusual colors in unison.... or that truly random colors would have yielded only these unusual ones so far. But we have a small sample size so far....
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Post by saardvark on Dec 2, 2021 13:07:43 GMT
It probably can. Just ask someone to take the chip and stick it into another tin can. But yeah, it's “will be” every time. The new bodies don't contain the chip, though. The data is downloaded into some sort of organic medium.
That leads to the interesting question as to whether that process is destructive, or if the original chip remains intact. If the former, the process really is irreversible (unless the chip is first copied and saved somewhere). If the chip remains intact or can be recreated, in theory the chip could be reinstalled in the old robot body and bob's your uncle. But that wouldn't automatically eliminate the New Person instantiation.
It's a bit like the transporter problem in Star Trek, where it seems to kill the original person in the process of creating a copy elsewhere. Is the New Person even the same entity as the original robot?
If it's really, as you say, just that "the data is downloaded" into a new body, it's quite possible the process could be non-destructive, and thus reversible. But it also implies Kat could make multiple copies of any original robot. She doesnt appear to be doing this though - she's preserving each bot's individuality. Making copies/clones would start to feel like she's making an army of identical slave/servant/drones, which is quite the opposite of Kat's concept. She wants to free them, not re-enslave them! As for is the NP the same entity... its the same mind in a new body. So yes, and no!?
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Post by saardvark on Dec 2, 2021 12:33:40 GMT
What we had seen previously, the tracking mechanism didn't rely on biometric data. It relied on, most likely, RFID tags in their food. The collection of tags in any one person would change - but over time, not all at once. So if a given person (when you can be confident you're scanning exactly one person) has a dozen of the tags that were in Kat yesterday, plus a half-dozen not currently connected to anybody, that person must be Kat and you list the new tags as also being in Kat. If you have a person with tags, but NONE of those tags are already listed, just wait until you are scanning that person and know who they are by some other means. Makes sense. But however the tracking works, unless they are shielded, the NPs would still be unidentified as a new unique set of tags not seen active before. They'd not be IDed as someone already in the system (so I don't think they will show up as lots of Kats...) That, combined with Forest creatures probably getting into Court food, will confuse Court tracking for a while....
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Post by saardvark on Dec 2, 2021 12:06:43 GMT
Also relevant is how the "digestive system" of the NP(C?) works. In a human the tags presumably circulate and make a consumer easily recognizable by their movements. If the tags aren't being circulated they'd show as a mass. If the tags do not carry particular identifiers then the mass would probably appear in the surveillance system as unconsumed food or food waste. If they do, they'd likely show as waste. All this also assumes that the NP(C?) is about as transparent to radio waves as a human, which they may not be. yeah, clever Kat might have built some shielding into the skin of NPs so they cant be tracked by the Court system.
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Post by saardvark on Dec 2, 2021 1:38:09 GMT
The NPs are mostly organic, so presumably they need to "eat" to repair/fuel themselves. Unless Kat has a separate supply of non-doctored food, the NPs would start showing up on Court sensors, which would have to raise eyebrows and unwanted questions.... Although... Forest creatures may start eating Court food supplies spilled here and there, and thus rather confound the usefulness of the Court tracking system. They won't know what they are tracking anymore... I still have questions about how the Court tracking works but I am imagining a Shadow Man trying to figure out why Kat is simultaneously present in over a quarter of the Court's geographic area, then noticing that she has been requisitioning tons of food per week. I was more thinking that they would show up as "unregistered/unknown" students, since the Court wouldn't have any biometric data on the NPs to ID them as any known person in particular. But if the Forest refugees start raiding Court food supplies in the abandoned buildings, they will start showing up as well.... and the tracking system will be well and truly spammed up (filled with confusing data)!
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Post by saardvark on Dec 1, 2021 15:32:14 GMT
I posted this first on [2553], but on second thought it seems maybe more appropriate here:
The ex-robot New People are mostly organic, so presumably they need to "eat" to repair/fuel themselves. Unless Kat has a separate supply of non-doctored food, the NPs would start showing up on Court sensors, which would have to raise eyebrows and unwanted questions....
Although... Forest creatures may start eating Court food supplies spilled here and there, and thus rather confound the usefulness of the Court tracking system. They won't know what they are tracking anymore...
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Post by saardvark on Dec 1, 2021 13:17:20 GMT
The NPs are mostly organic, so presumably they need to "eat" to repair/fuel themselves. Unless Kat has a separate supply of non-doctored food, the NPs would start showing up on Court sensors, which would have to raise eyebrows and unwanted questions....
Although... Forest creatures may start eating Court food supplies spilled here and there, and thus rather confound the usefulness of the Court tracking system. They won't know what they are tracking anymore...
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Post by saardvark on Nov 26, 2021 19:13:58 GMT
I wonder if the Seraphs are trying to get back into Kat's good favor (and maybe win new bodies for themselves?) by helping with the some of the New People to rescue buried shield robots? (The Court may well have written them off as lost.) Some of the shield robots' CPUs have already been transplanted/transferred to the New People... www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2248so these will need new "brains" from other robots. Maybe Kat has access to some more CPUs from other head-crabbed bots, via Juliette www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2241
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Post by saardvark on Nov 26, 2021 14:43:51 GMT
Also not sure what DD is doing in panel #3. Well, I can see what it's doing but am not sure why. Maybe it's their (Dover Demons and/or the internets) way of saying hello? I think DD is scaling the wall (in a spidery way) behind the seraph, but twisting its head around 180 degrees (note neck twist) to keep an eye on it and the new people.
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Post by saardvark on Nov 23, 2021 15:41:05 GMT
Can we call him Squidward. I'm going with Squidweird™. I'm surprised no one has mentioned it yet. yeah, sort of a cross between Squidward and Gollum....
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Post by saardvark on Nov 23, 2021 15:39:45 GMT
A side question: how much of the Forest was affected by the Loup-tsunami? Are there undamaged zones that Forest creatures could return to, or are they all stuck living in the Court now?
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