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Post by violet on Jun 2, 2010 20:14:28 GMT
Why is everyone trying to figure what's going on? The scary thing about Zimmy's hallucinations is that they don't make sense. Well, there's, “doesn't make sense because there are faceless people walking around and people aren't usually faceless,” and there's, “doesn't make sense because I am someone else and people usually obey the identity property.” It's a different level. (I'm not saying it's not a hallucination, just that the sudden surge of WMG is understandable.) Yeah, I can see that: it turns out Annie was in the holo-simulation room all allong. But THEN it turns out it was all a hallucination Zimmy was having. But THEN it turns out it was all a dream Annie was having. But THEN it turns out it was all a fanfiction writen by Reynardine. Computer, end program.
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Post by bookworm on Jun 2, 2010 20:30:34 GMT
This page reminds me of last season's House finale for some reason...
I have no idea what to make of this page...although I do like the theory that Jack set up a simulation/hallucination thingy (edit: I wouldn't put it past him to have that kind of technology). Also, did Annie leave the door open behind her? Hope we get some sort of answer on friday, or I will scream in frustration >_>
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Post by basser on Jun 2, 2010 20:51:07 GMT
Nit-picking, but we never see Zimmingham in Dobranoc Gamma. What we see here is Zimmy's memories of coming to the school, not her hellish dreamworld. This isn't Zimmingham?This isn't Zimmingham?This isn't Zimmingham?This, I agree, is not Zimmingham.Sure it's a flashback... that doesn't mean that when it actually happened in the past, she wasn't in Zimmingham at the time though. Clearly the time in Power Station wasn't the only time that Zimmy's been in Zimmingham, so you stating that it was in the past seems irrelevant. No, none of those are Zimmingham. They're memories that Zimmy's being pulled into. They look like Birmingham cause, hey that's where all that stuff happened. Look, maybe we're just arguing semantics here, but I've been interpereting 'Zimmingham' as the all-out, fullscale recreation of hellish Birmingham, complete with nobodies and the possibility of pulling in others nearby. Whenever they get pulled into THAT reality, which is not frequently, they meet up at the toy store. When in Zimmingham, Gamma wears her candyfloss shirt and Zimmy wears that blue top/green pants number. The pages you linked were NOT full-out alternate reality Zimmingham. They were just memories of Zimmy's time in Birmingham. The giant Rogat Orjak monster thing there is what she was seeing at that time in her memory. Remember, she sees this kind of crap around her all the time, not just in Zimmingham. And, so, my point still stands that candyfloss top = Zimmingham.
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Post by sandjosieph on Jun 2, 2010 21:00:45 GMT
Wild Guessing: Maybe everyone is a robot.
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Post by hal9000 on Jun 2, 2010 21:18:00 GMT
Maybe birminghell is a subdistrict of... The Twilight Zone *cue theme music*
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Post by Casey on Jun 2, 2010 21:20:47 GMT
basser I think you're right that we're just looking at it from two different semantic viewpoints. As I understand it, what happened in Power Station was that Annie (and Jack) got pulled into Zimmy's memories of Birmingham, haunted by the etheric "toxic waste" of her particular etheric problem. I've never believed that "Zimmingham" was a physical place that they were teleported to in the way that Parley teleported the group to her bedroom. Thus, each of those pages show Zimmy's memories, which in essence, -are- "Zimmingham". And the images we saw in Dobranoc Gamma, then, were Zimmy being pulled back and forth between reality and her memories, id est, "Zimmingham".
But since this is really a tangent based on a minor nitpick which originated with my mention of it as only one of a group of reasons why I think this is Birmingjack and not-Gamma, I would say that we can probably let the sub-topic die.
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Post by therocksayz on Jun 2, 2010 21:32:04 GMT
Yeah, I can see that: it turns out Annie was in the holo-simulation room all allong. But THEN it turns out it was all a hallucination Zimmy was having. But THEN it turns out it was all a dream Annie was having. But THEN it turns out it was all a fanfiction writen by Reynardine. Computer, end program. There is no spoon.
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Post by Afalstein on Jun 2, 2010 21:48:32 GMT
So... Several possibilities.
1) Zimmy, Gamma, and Jack are all on the roof. Zimmy's powers have gone haywire because of the power station, creating Zimmingham. While "pursuing" Zimmy, Annie finds Gamma, who thinks she's Zimmy because Zimmy sometimes forgets who she is.
2) Jack is the only one on the roof. The spider, swollen by the power station's energy (maybe that's the reason Jack was so pressed to activate it anyway?), has recreated Zimmingham, along with it's usual inhabitants Zimmy and Gamma. Thus both Zimmy and Gamma here are actually nobodies, designed to mislead Annie.
3) Everyone is a robot.
Personally my money is on 2. I don't see how Zimmy could have gotten there so quickly without Jones and Co. noticing, and the identity switch here seems to suggest neither Zimmy or Gamma are completely real.
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Post by Refugee on Jun 2, 2010 21:58:36 GMT
I think all these people are who they appear to be; I didn't mean my comment to suggest that Gamma is not herself.
I think this shows that Zimmy is far more dependent on Gamma than I thought before. The nursing an invalid suggestion is very well taken.
I'm also very intrigued that Gamma doesn't recognize Annie via mind-touch.
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Post by bookworm on Jun 2, 2010 22:09:00 GMT
I wonder, if Annie is in Zimmingham, how Jones and Renard are seeing her right now. If her trip to Zimmingham is like the one in chapter 19, to them she must be standing still. Or, since in chapter 19 the trip didn't take up any real time, when she comes 'out', it will look like she went outside to the roof and immediately came back.
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Post by legion on Jun 2, 2010 22:19:24 GMT
Why is everyone trying to figure what's going on? The scary thing about Zimmy's hallucinations is that they don't make sense. OR DO THEY? *scary music*
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Ruushi
Full Member
Touch the onion!!!
Posts: 146
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Post by Ruushi on Jun 2, 2010 23:01:25 GMT
We'll just see what Friday's Page offers Maybe it'll clear some stuff
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guyy
Full Member
Posts: 113
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Post by guyy on Jun 2, 2010 23:14:45 GMT
2) Jack is the only one on the roof. The spider, swollen by the power station's energy (maybe that's the reason Jack was so pressed to activate it anyway?), has recreated Zimmingham, along with it's usual inhabitants Zimmy and Gamma. Thus both Zimmy and Gamma here are actually nobodies, designed to mislead Annie. That...actually seems pretty likely. I was thinking it seemed kind of silly that Zimmy would come back to the power plant, after what happened last time. Though it's also possible the spider + power plant ether-energy is enough to affect Zimmy/Gamma even though they're not nearby. By getting too close to the spider, Annie may have gotten knocked out of her own head and sucked into Zimmy's; if that's the real Gamma, then this sort of thing has probably happened before. And given how much control Gamma apparently has over Zimmingham, making a convincing "nobody" of her might not even be possible. But still, we have no idea how nobodies get generated in the first place. And I don't have much of a track record of being right.
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Post by Per on Jun 2, 2010 23:55:25 GMT
"Gamma! We have to find Zimmy" she shouted Gamma said "No, Annie. You are the Zimmy" And then Annie was a nobody.
If Annie has been Zimmy before this page, then maybe things like Jones casually destroying valuable property using odd powers is a hint of her reality being incrementally distorted (that we should have picked up, I'm pretty disappointed in us guys). If the Annie we've seen has been Zimmy for a non-negligible portion of the last two chapters, then it's awesome. If not, it's probably still awesome.
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Post by crysiana on Jun 3, 2010 0:03:11 GMT
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Post by jesses on Jun 3, 2010 0:08:00 GMT
Wow, I am having an ENTIRELY different response to this then most of the comments here.
Annie doesn't have the scar because this is, in no way at ALL, part of the hidden etheric world.
Jack has repeatedly shown himself to be a literal genius with technology, I'm betting (though I wouldn't bet much, Tom is really good at tripping up all of us) that he has just created a simulation world the exact same style as Dr. Disaster's.
Why did Jones not go with Annie? Jones doesn't ever seem to take the lead in much, just helps direct and influences,
We've seen that she is nigh impervious to harm (or at least damn hard to hurt) and exceptionally fast and yet when Ysengrin attacked Annie for spanking Coyote it was Reynardine (jumped in front), Donald (cast a barrier) and Eggers (tried to cut his arm off) who jumped in to defend her, not Jones.
Why did she tell Rey to stay behind? Because Jack demonstrated not 20 minutes ago (comic time) that he can do serious harm to Rey.
Jack believes there is some link between Annie and Zimmy (and there might be after all) and so technologically creating an artificial world to trick Annie into finding Zimmy makes total sense to me.
Also, the power station is still powering up so far as we know, it is drawing energy in but we haven't seen it activate its lightning discharge OR cause rain yet, so I don't think the effect is complete.
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Post by badgerigar on Jun 3, 2010 0:48:55 GMT
Why did Antimony speak to Gamma in English?
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Post by Refugee on Jun 3, 2010 0:55:15 GMT
Why did Antimony speak to Gamma in English? She's not speaking; she's using telepathy (or some equivalent).
Her meaning comes through independently of language.Oops, sorry, I got the two backwards. Essentially the same answer, though: Annie had no trouble understanding Gamma without translation, and replies in her natural English. And apparently, Gamma understood her just fine. Good catch, though.
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Post by bluemotion on Jun 3, 2010 1:19:45 GMT
guys annie is a robot
jones is a fragment of annies subconscious
gamma is a ghost
renard is a physical manifestation of the foxmind
zimmy is actually the main character
jack is the headmaster in disguise
and tom siddell is the master of the plot twist
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Post by crysiana on Jun 3, 2010 2:44:37 GMT
Wow, I am having an ENTIRELY different response to this then most of the comments here. Annie doesn't have the scar because this is, in no way at ALL, part of the hidden etheric world. Jack has repeatedly shown himself to be a literal genius with technology, I'm betting (though I wouldn't bet much, Tom is really good at tripping up all of us) that he has just created a simulation world the exact same style as Dr. Disaster's. Why did Jones not go with Annie? Jones doesn't ever seem to take the lead in much, just helps direct and influences, We've seen that she is nigh impervious to harm (or at least damn hard to hurt) and exceptionally fast and yet when Ysengrin attacked Annie for spanking Coyote it was Reynardine (jumped in front), Donald (cast a barrier) and Eggers (tried to cut his arm off) who jumped in to defend her, not Jones. Why did she tell Rey to stay behind? Because Jack demonstrated not 20 minutes ago (comic time) that he can do serious harm to Rey. Jack believes there is some link between Annie and Zimmy (and there might be after all) and so technologically creating an artificial world to trick Annie into finding Zimmy makes total sense to me. Also, the power station is still powering up so far as we know, it is drawing energy in but we haven't seen it activate its lightning discharge OR cause rain yet, so I don't think the effect is complete. That's a point; the transition on the page looks more similar to the Dr. Disaster simulation than to the static we saw when going in and out of Zimmingham: www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=581
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Post by djublonskopf on Jun 3, 2010 3:24:55 GMT
Oh, that is a good point. I should have checked that.
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Post by djublonskopf on Jun 3, 2010 3:26:37 GMT
Wow, I am having an ENTIRELY different response to this then most of the comments here. Annie doesn't have the scar because this is, in no way at ALL, part of the hidden etheric world. Jack has repeatedly shown himself to be a literal genius with technology, I'm betting (though I wouldn't bet much, Tom is really good at tripping up all of us) that he has just created a simulation world the exact same style as Dr. Disaster's. Why did Jones not go with Annie? Jones doesn't ever seem to take the lead in much, just helps direct and influences, We've seen that she is nigh impervious to harm (or at least damn hard to hurt) and exceptionally fast and yet when Ysengrin attacked Annie for spanking Coyote it was Reynardine (jumped in front), Donald (cast a barrier) and Eggers (tried to cut his arm off) who jumped in to defend her, not Jones. Why did she tell Rey to stay behind? Because Jack demonstrated not 20 minutes ago (comic time) that he can do serious harm to Rey. Jack believes there is some link between Annie and Zimmy (and there might be after all) and so technologically creating an artificial world to trick Annie into finding Zimmy makes total sense to me. Also, the power station is still powering up so far as we know, it is drawing energy in but we haven't seen it activate its lightning discharge OR cause rain yet, so I don't think the effect is complete. That's a point; the transition on the page looks more similar to the Dr. Disaster simulation than to the static we saw when going in and out of Zimmingham: www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=581Indeed, but it still leaves the telepathy unexplained. And Dr. Disaster's simulations relied on force-feedback in the suits to seem real . . . Annie wouldn't feel holo-Gamma touching her hand without the suit on.
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Post by wanderer on Jun 3, 2010 3:43:14 GMT
I think the only thing we can really understand about this page is that there isn't a single thing we really understand about this page.
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Post by Casey on Jun 3, 2010 3:48:04 GMT
This, by the way, is one of the many instances in which I wish Annie would shift into ether-sight in order to better understand what's going on...
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Post by atteSmythe on Jun 3, 2010 4:12:13 GMT
This, by the way, is one of the many instances in which I wish Annie would shift into ether-sight in order to better understand what's going on... I've been looking forward to seeing Zimmy/Zimmingham through the ether-sight as well...though if I were Antimony, I'd be wary of sticking my mind into the ether when it's in the process of being 'collected and purified.'
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Post by jesses on Jun 3, 2010 4:48:51 GMT
Indeed, but it still leaves the telepathy unexplained. And Dr. Disaster's simulations relied on force-feedback in the suits to seem real . . . Annie wouldn't feel holo-Gamma touching her hand without the suit on. Fair point, though my counterargument is that Jack took Anja's binding program and then made it better and used it on Rey, so removing the need for force feedback suits still seems well within his abilities. Telepathy may not be unique to Gamma, Jones, for one, always seems to know what Annie has been up to and talking about (that may be technological surveillance, but Jones is enigmatic enough that I'm not discounting anything). -Or- It is Gamma but she is being duped as well.
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Post by centzontotochtin on Jun 3, 2010 8:19:39 GMT
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Post by singsong on Jun 3, 2010 10:44:50 GMT
So what does it tell us? Anybody see any difference? I don't. Plus: It's been a long time since we last saw Zimmy/Gamma. Hair grows.
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Post by centzontotochtin on Jun 3, 2010 12:28:06 GMT
Oh dear god you're right. I've not got this, guys. I'VE NOT GOT THIS
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Post by todd on Jun 3, 2010 12:58:46 GMT
I said earlier that I hoped that Tom isn't going for a "everything after Chapter Twenty-three was a simulation", because of what that would mean for things like the Jeanne arc.
I also hope that Tom isn't going for a "This is really Zimmy looking like Annie" revelation. For one thing, it ruins the things that Annie would have been learning over the past several pages - because under that hypothesis, she wouldn't have learned them after all, but Zimmy would have instead.
I'm going for "It's not the real Gamma" or "Gamma's been duped into believing that Annie is Zimmy". Both fit the direction of the story far better.
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