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Post by todd on May 4, 2010 23:22:26 GMT
To ensure against dragging the "Music" thread off-topic, I decided to start a new thread to study the similarities and differences between "Harry Potter" and "Gunnerkrigg Court" in more detail.
1. Both Gunnerkrigg and Hogwarts are weird boarding schools somewhere in Britain, next to a dark and creepy forest inhabited by mythical creatures who aren't friendly with the students, and which the students are normally forbidden to enter.
As penguinfactory pointed out in the "Music" thread, these similarities are independent of each other. Dark forests with strange inhabitants are a staple of fantasy stories (no doubt going all the way back to early humans' fear of the wild wood). Also, Gillitie Wood has a far larger role in "Gunnerkrigg Court" than the Forbidden Forest has in "Harry Potter", serving as the Court's foil; the friction between the Court and the Wood, and their philosophical differences, is one of the major elements of the comic.
Also, while the etheric sciences studied at Gunnerkrigg might count as magic (Kat would disagree with that), it's different in tone than the magic of Hogwarts (and lacks most of the obvious fairy tale trappings of Hogwarts, such as wands, broomsticks, and cauldrons). Hogwarts' focus is on science and technology (if an unusual level of science and technology, if it's capable of producing such things as computer programs that can block Reynardine's body-hopping ability).
2. Annie and Harry are both orphans ("semi-orphan", in Annie's case, since Anthony is presumably still alive - but his abandoning her comes close) with remarkable abilities, but as penguinfactory pointed out, plenty of protagonists are orphans. Also, their skills are different; Harry's magic is more conventional, while Annie's is tied to the specifics of the setting (she can see the Guides, dispel illusions, and enter the etheric realm). Not to mention that the manner in which they became orphans is also different; Surma died from a long illness, rather than being murdered.
3. Gunnerkrigg and Hogwarts are both divided into four houses, though as Tea points out on the Bonus Page for Chapter One, that's standard for many British boarding schools. The house divisions are thematic, but Gunnerkrigg bases its house division on the etheric traits of its students (thus, if you're an ex-fairy, ex-fish, etc., you're in Foley, if you're close to an etheric being in a human body, like a Valkyrie taking school for defying Odin, you're in Chester, and so on) rather than their personality traits. Not to mention that you can move students from one house to another in Gunnerkrigg when you learn more about their connection to the etheric, while I don't recall similar cases in Hogwarts.
4. As I mentioned elsewhere, Gunnerkrigg has no Voldemort-counterpart; many of the inhabitants of Gillitie Wood have no love for the Court and would probably like to reclaim it for the forest, Ents-smashing-Isengard style - but they're portrayed as angry rather than evil and have legitimate grievances. Indeed, Jones points out in Chapter Seventeen that both sides in the quarrel are equally flawed. And Annie's role is not that of a future champion like Harry, but a future medium; presumably her great task will be finding a way of resolving the quarrel between the Court and the Wood peacefully.
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Ruushi
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Post by Ruushi on May 5, 2010 0:59:28 GMT
I was never a big fan of Harry Potter Though I have seen parts of some of the movies Then I fall asleep(laugh) But I liked Gunnerkrigg from the start Here's some more: 1.The uniform for a girl in Gunnerkrigg is a sweater and skirt A boy wears a shirt and pants All the students in Hogwarts have Wizard Robes 2.Jack could be forming into the Voldemort character
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Post by cazador on May 5, 2010 3:47:32 GMT
2.Jack could be forming into the Voldemort character Does that make Jones the equivalent of Snape?
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Post by Yin on May 5, 2010 6:04:40 GMT
>_o I can't get the image out of my head now. Darn you, caz!
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Post by eightyfour on May 5, 2010 10:44:19 GMT
2. Annie and Harry are both orphans ("semi-orphan", in Annie's case, since Anthony is presumably still alive - but his abandoning her comes close) with remarkable abilities, but as penguinfactory pointed out, plenty of protagonists are orphans. Also, their skills are different; Harry's magic is more conventional, while Annie's is tied to the specifics of the setting (she can see the Guides, dispel illusions, and enter the etheric realm). Not to mention that the manner in which they became orphans is also different; Surma died from a long illness, rather than being murdered. I have actually been waiting for someone to make a comparison between these two. As was already hinted: A child with a tragic background (often orphaned) and with some form of special (often supernatural) ability becoming a hero is a very common theme. Frodo Baggins, Peter Parker and Buffy the Vampire Slayer all fit into that template. Examples can be found all over in pop-culture for the last fifty years or so (and I'd bet you can even find some in ancient history or greek mythology, but I don't know that well enough). An example: I don't think many people here will know Demonology 101 - back when that comic was active, people made the very same connection between Buffy and Raven (the heroine of D101) that's now being made between Harry and Annie. I believe D101's creator stated then that she hadn't even seen Buffy before creating the comic, very much the same as with Tom and Harry Potter. History repeating? ;D I think the tragic-past-superpowered-kid thing is just so common because writers have found it to work very well. And people actually do have the same, or at least very similar ideas, independently. That doesn't make any of these characters any less unique, they all still have lots of personal traits.
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Ruushi
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Post by Ruushi on May 5, 2010 13:16:56 GMT
Let's see what we got People Annie-Harry Kat-Ron or Hermine Rey- Shadow 2- Zimmy-Draco(?) Gamma-Crabb or Goyle(?) Coyote- Ysengrin- Eglamore-Hagrid(?) Jack-Voldemort(?) Jones-Snape(?) Parley- Smits- Headmaster-Dumbledore Houses Queslet-Griffindor Not sure about Hufflepuff,Slytherin,Foley,Thornhill,Chester,Etc.
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Post by Casey on May 5, 2010 13:55:53 GMT
Oh, must we??
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Post by Ignotus Somnium on May 5, 2010 14:39:31 GMT
Yeah, aside from typical English boarding school tropes and a few common fantasy elements (the woods, hero/ine with a deceased relative) the series' really aren't that similar. Imo it would take a very loose interpretation of each series to equate them like that.
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Post by Mr Pitchfork on May 5, 2010 15:07:47 GMT
It's not necessary, but it's a good disproof-of-concept.
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Post by Mezzaphor on May 5, 2010 15:21:16 GMT
Yeah, think the most that could be said is that Gunnerkrigg and Harry Potter begin with a similar starting premise, and then they both run in completely different directions with it.
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Post by the bandit on May 5, 2010 16:25:55 GMT
Square peg, meet round hole.
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Post by Mylian on May 5, 2010 16:36:45 GMT
Beating a dead horse. Facepalm.
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Post by olivia42 on May 5, 2010 17:45:13 GMT
As bad as it sounds, from a marketing perspective, we want people to compare Gunnerkrigg Court to Harry Potter. I actually tell people it's like the Harry Potter of webcomics because it has a lot of the unique aspects that drew people to Harry Potter: Boarding school setting, Dickensian protagonist, supernatural elements, complex but easy to digest story, a sense of humor that doesn't compromise the drama, memorable characters, and most importantly, attractive to a broad spectrum of people. Gunnerkrigg is absolutely the thing that would draw people to comics just as Harry Potter drew kids to reading 800 page books.
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Post by Casey on May 5, 2010 17:51:44 GMT
Harry Potter is a tale of Good vs Evil. Gunnerkrigg Court is about as polarly opposite from that as you can get. I think it's a very unfair comparison to make and I think it vastly sells short the complexity of GC's plotline. This is my opinion.
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Ruushi
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Post by Ruushi on May 5, 2010 18:41:46 GMT
Both Harry and Annie started school at 11 at Gunnerkrigg and Hogwarts
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Post by Yin on May 5, 2010 23:36:52 GMT
For the love of whatever deity you worship, knock out any normal British school-isms when comparing them. Had either of them gone to a normal British boarding school you'd have the same results.
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Post by Mezzaphor on May 5, 2010 23:43:35 GMT
Both Harry and Annie started school at 11 at Gunnerkrigg and Hogwarts That's because of how the school system is structured in the UK. At age 11 you start at a new school, either a boarding school or a comprehensive. You might as well point out how many fictional children in American stories start high school at age 14.
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Post by eightyfour on May 6, 2010 7:32:38 GMT
Let's see what we got ... Rey- Sirius Black, obviously. But yeah, let's not go there... ;D
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jon77
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Post by jon77 on May 6, 2010 7:43:34 GMT
Square peg, meet round hole. Apple, meet Orange!
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Post by todd on May 6, 2010 22:12:43 GMT
Of course, the final word would have to be the first guest-drawn comic (immediately after Chapter Fourteen) - which I ought to link to here, but don't know how to do.
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Post by penguinfactory on May 6, 2010 22:46:51 GMT
I think this is the first time I've ever seen a comparitive literature discussion revolving around webcomics. This might be a somewhat divisive thing to bring up, but if you had to compare the two series in terms of how "mature" or "deep" they are, which would you say comes out on top? I would say Gunnerkrigg, hands down. Speaking as a huge fan of the Harry Potter books, even I have to admit that they are very shallow. With the exception of some elements like the Ministry of Magic, good and evil are set in stone and explored at only a surface level- all of the good characters are, deep down, brave and loyal while the villains are scheming, backstabbing cads to the man. In Gunnerkrigg Court on the other hand, there is no good or evil, just different sides of a conflict, and characters aren't all good or bad (even Annie!). The comic has given me far more to chew over in terms of thematic elements in it's 20+ chapters than the Harry Potter books gave me in seven books. Also, while the etheric sciences studied at Gunnerkrigg might count as magic (Kat would disagree with that), it's different in tone than the magic of Hogwarts (and lacks most of the obvious fairy tale trappings of Hogwarts, such as wands, broomsticks, and cauldrons). Hogwarts' focus is on science and technology (if an unusual level of science and technology, if it's capable of producing such things as computer programs that can block Reynardine's body-hopping ability). I think the difference goes beyond that- Gunnerkrigg Court's "magic" isn't just focused around science and technology, it is a science, or is at least studied like one. In Harry Potter magic is taught from an almost purely practical level. We get hints and tips that things are more complex beneath the surface, but for the most part the students are being taught skills they're going to be applying in everyday life. With GC it's a lot more academic, hence you don't get classes devoted just to using blinker stones or other etheric abilities (although I wouldn't be surprised if something along this lines exists for Chester). I think this is really the only element of GC that generates the claims of Harry Potter influence, and you can chalk it up entirely to cultural differences. Simply put, a lot of people who live in countries where school houses don't exist believe the concept was invented by JK Rowling. I'm not really sure how I feel about this idea. On one hand I like the whole "no bad guys" thing Tom has going. On the other hand, I've seen stories where the villain is introduced as a sympathetic character and we see them turn evil and understand why they are the way they are, and it can be powerful stuff. I guess I'm not opposed to a villain character showing up in Gunnerkrigg Court- it could be cool to see the forest and Court unite to fight a common enemy- and Jack would certainly make for an interesting, multi-faceted bad guy. To me this is the big thing that renders all of the surface similarities between the two stories moot- none of the Gunnerkrigg characters are even remotely like any of the Harry Potter cast. You can draw similarities between Annie and Harry to a small extent, but in terms of personality they're nothing alike. And there's no Harry Potter character that fulfills the roles of Jones, Parley, Smith or Reynadrine. (Eglamore interestingly has some uncanny parallels with Snape, but I won't go into them since they're huge spoilers for the seventh book. It's irrelevant anyway since the particular chapter I'm thinking of came out long before Deathly Hallows did). Hey, I had forgotten all about that! Demonology 101 was one of the earliest webcomics I read, and still one of my favourites.
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Post by todd on May 6, 2010 22:52:58 GMT
I think this is really the only element of GC that generates the claims of Harry Potter influence, and you can chalk it up entirely to cultural differences. Simply put, a lot of people who live in countries where school houses don't exist believe the concept was invented by JK Rowling. We know that Tom named the four houses at Gunnerkrigg after the houses at the school he attended. (I wonder if anyone who works at the school has seen the comic, and if so, what they think of that detail.) The primary school I attended in England as a boy (my family moved back to the States before I could go to a secondary school) had four houses, though strictly for athletics. They were named "Plantagenet", "Lancaster", "York", and "Tudor", turning school games into almost a re-enactment of the Wars of the Roses. I was in Tudor.
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Post by todd on May 18, 2010 0:19:32 GMT
Incidentally, does anybody besides me think that the Court's way of sorting people into houses (based on the nature of their links to the Ether) is preferable to Hogwarts' system, decided by character traits? Gunnerkrigg's thereby spared itself the "Slytherin situation" (i.e., sorting people into a house with a reputation for villainy).
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Post by hal9000 on May 18, 2010 3:03:50 GMT
Versus battle, eh?
In a war between Gunnerkrigg and Hogwarts, Gunnerkrigg will have the upper hand, since they can use technology in addition to being able to manipulate the ether / do "magic". Also Hogwarts never had any weapons of mass destruction.
;D
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Post by Mezzaphor on May 18, 2010 5:52:48 GMT
This reminds me of an idea I had once for a Gunnerkrigg Court advertisement brochure. It would have mentioned their annual school tournament against Hogwarts, and how Hogwarts pretty consistently won the magic tournaments while Gunnerkrigg consistently dominated all the real sports.
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Post by todd on May 18, 2010 10:42:26 GMT
It wasn't that kind of versus (I should have come up with a better title) - but I think we got a taste of it in the guest comic where Harry wound up duct taped to the flagpole twice (assuming that it was the "real" Harry and not a would-be-Harry; he didn't have a forehead scar).
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Post by cortin on May 20, 2010 13:19:00 GMT
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Post by todd on May 20, 2010 22:53:54 GMT
One other difference:
Harry's meddling usually (though not always) saves Hogwarts from the latest threat directed against it (generally from Voldemort). Annie's meddling often makes things worse rather than better, with the teachers then having to sort the mess out. (This may change as Annie matures and learns more from Anja, Eglamore, Jones and the rest - but for now, the story frequently gives the impression that things would be a lot better if whenever she came across something weird, she asked the grown-ups for help instead of trying to handle it herself.)
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Post by todd on Aug 27, 2014 11:22:54 GMT
Forgive me for reviving an old thread, but I recently came across this: forums.spacebattles.com/threads/potter-swap-antimony-carver.169210/Pity it was apparently abandoned after a couple of posts; I'd have liked seeing how that one would have turned out. How would Harry's adventures have been different with Antimony there instead of Hermione? Would Harry and Ron have been as good at getting Annie out of her seemingly emotionless state as Kat was? How would Annie have gotten on with the ghosts at Hogwarts? (I have a vision of Annie trying to make friends with Moaning Myrtle, only for Myrtle to - at least, at first - want nothing to do with her, loudly suspecting Annie, based on her appearance, to be the kind of girl who'd have joined with Olive Hornby in making fun of her.) Not to mention that Annie could have introduced Draco to Muggle martial arts the hard way....
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Post by sapientcoffee on Aug 27, 2014 14:27:15 GMT
There would be no "leviOsa" jokes.
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