Alex
Full Member
Posts: 165
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Post by Alex on Apr 27, 2010 2:01:54 GMT
This page convinced me even more that Jack, in his etheric-addled condition, didn't think out his plan carefully enough. He takes precautions to keep from being tracked, but brings Annie, who's still trackable, with him, ensuring that the Court authorities could follow *her* to the power station. (Which raises the question more than ever of why he wanted her and Reynardine to come.) Oh. This. Yeah, it's gotta be this.
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Alex
Full Member
Posts: 165
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Post by Alex on Apr 27, 2010 2:02:49 GMT
If Jack is trying to attract someone besides Zimmy, then he was lying here and here, where he outright said he had tried to find Zimmy before. Jack did mention on the last page that "she won't show herself" -- I can't think of any students besides Zimmy and Gamma who are that hard to find. No, he needs to find Zimmy so she can take him back to that place. Failing that, he's going to try to use the power station.
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Post by cheddarius on Apr 27, 2010 2:26:33 GMT
I agree. The etheric spider powers have turned Jack's brain into lukewarm tapioca.
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Post by cazador on Apr 27, 2010 3:05:36 GMT
maybe Jack has learned something about Zimmy, but lied to Annie like he did about the power station. I suspect that he might be using Annie like Zimmy uses Gamma, in order to suppress Zimmington.
edit: or he just saw Annie glop the nobodies, and extrapolated from there.
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Post by La Goon on Apr 27, 2010 15:31:22 GMT
I wonder if Jack (and maybe even Annie) will be in danger of getting moved to Chester. That seams to be where the problematic/possible dangerous ones (or something along those lines) are put
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Post by the bandit on Apr 27, 2010 17:04:30 GMT
Maybe THAT'S his plan.
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Post by todd on Apr 27, 2010 22:10:40 GMT
More likely they'd lock him up. (He's reached the point of dangerous paranoia where simply shifting him to another house wouldn't be enough - convinced that the entire Court is in the hands of evil masterminds bent on controlling the children enrolled at it and experimenting on them.)
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Post by Tobu Ishi on Apr 27, 2010 22:15:48 GMT
Well, they haven't locked Zimmy up. Surely she's a bigger danger to her fellow students than Jack is, at least for now. The Court seems to take a rather hands-off approach to its problem students...
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Post by TBeholder on Apr 27, 2010 22:47:29 GMT
I wonder if Jack (and maybe even Annie) will be in danger of getting moved to Chester. Annie may get away easily. Starting from saying that she tried to look after him in her own way because someone should. If she was not good enough at it to prevent him from breaking that robot - sadly, neither were they. She rebuffed Mr. Eglamore when he performed rather well, and doesn't mind gods or reapers - why she would be too humble before some Court functionaries who already failed at their job? In fact, probably the best she can do is to persuade them to let Mrs. Donlan examine Jack (she must assume Anja got some knowledge of etheric stuff and many years of training with her own blinker, even if she doesn't know how cool Anja was before it). More likely they'd lock him up. (He's reached the point of dangerous paranoia where simply shifting him to another house wouldn't be enough - convinced So he's dangerous not because of his behaviour, but because he's convinced that Big Brother does not loves him? ;D that the entire Court is in the hands of evil masterminds bent on controlling the children enrolled at it and experimenting on them.) But even if it is, is he's adequate? Well, they haven't locked Zimmy up. Surely she's a bigger danger to her fellow students than Jack is, at least for now. The Court seems to take a rather hands-off approach to its problem students... Yes, but as far as we know, Zimmy neither stops eating, nor runs at breakneck speed, nor crushes robots, nor plays with high-power equipment when she is not supposed to.
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Post by cazador on Apr 27, 2010 23:58:13 GMT
So he's dangerous not because of his behaviour, but because he's convinced that Big Brother does not loves him? Thought crime does not entail death, thought crime is death.
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Post by cheddarius on Apr 28, 2010 0:49:55 GMT
I think the court already is trying to lock him up, from the two goons trying to catch him at the beginning of the chapter.
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Post by blackboe on Apr 28, 2010 0:51:43 GMT
there's a difference between a thought crime and being like totally nutso.
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Post by hal9000 on Apr 28, 2010 1:29:23 GMT
More likely they'd lock him up. (He's reached the point of dangerous paranoia where simply shifting him to another house wouldn't be enough - convinced that the entire Court is in the hands of evil masterminds bent on controlling the children enrolled at it and experimenting on them.) You know, he might not be wrong... Yes, but as far as we know, Zimmy neither stops eating, nor runs at breakneck speed, nor crushes robots, nor plays with high-power equipment when she is not supposed to. No, she only does biological weapons experiments and sometimes accidentally sucks people into her own personal hellworld .
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Post by blackboe on Apr 28, 2010 1:30:48 GMT
He might not be but there's a wicked twitch to him that I don't think is entirely due to the court.
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Post by Mezzaphor on Apr 28, 2010 1:31:35 GMT
Yes, before we accuse the Court of going totalitarian, I don't think they're out of line in their assumption that the crossed wires in Jack's head could make him a physical danger to himself and/or others.
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Post by Tobu Ishi on Apr 28, 2010 3:28:05 GMT
You know, before we start judging the actions of the Court, has anyone stopped to wonder whether the people chasing Jack are actually part of the Court? For one thing, take the men in suits who were chasing Jack at the start of the chapter. Have we ever seen them before? Have we ever seen anyone like them at the Court before? Hmm. And for another thing, consider the moment in "Dobranoc, Gamma" when Zimmy is shown arguing with (wa-hey!) some imposing men in suits about whether she should go back to school. They assured her that this school would be different, thereby implying that they were not directly affiliated with Gunnerkrigg Court itself, but rather a part of some sort of organization or social service which oversees the care and custody of kids like Zimmy. If this organization of men in suits made arrangements with the Court for Zimmy's unconventional attendance (does she even attend classes regularly?), then they've established a precedent that would allow them to chase Jack around the halls unchallenged by the staff if they thought it was in his best interests. (And if the Court is in fact NOT aware of their involvement with Zimmy's enrollment, then there may be an interesting reaction from the Court when it's made aware of their recent intrusions.) Whether these Men In Black are benevolent or not, we obviously don't know at this point--but it seems remiss not to consider them as a factor in this unfolding plotline.
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Post by Mezzaphor on Apr 28, 2010 3:39:04 GMT
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Post by Tobu Ishi on Apr 28, 2010 3:59:37 GMT
...well, darn. And here I thought I had a nifty theory. XD
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Post by cheddarius on Apr 28, 2010 6:38:22 GMT
In any case, I really, really doubt that the Court is totalitarian. It's pretty nice. The principal is fairly kind, if perpetually bored, and seems to care for his daughter a lot. Another disciplinary guy, Eglamore, is also very nice, and even let Annie kind of get away with tossing Winsbury. I see no evil Stalinist dictators walking around, and the guy in charge is pretty cool. The only evidence that the court is totalitarian, them going after Jack, seems pretty flimsy. I mean, if someone in a normal school stopped eating and attending classes, started freaking out other students, stole from other students, insulted other students, and was planning to break into school property, I'd send guys after him too.
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Post by La Goon on Apr 28, 2010 8:16:09 GMT
I'm assuming they are part of the Court but not of the faculty. We don't really know anything about the relationship between the school and the other parts of the Court. I wouldn't be surprised if outside of the faculty there are people with authority equal to and higher than the headmaster. As "Protector of the Court" Eglamore could even be answering to some of those...
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Post by the bandit on Apr 28, 2010 14:56:06 GMT
Yes, but as far as we know, Zimmy neither stops eating, nor runs at breakneck speed, nor crushes robots, nor plays with high-power equipment when she is not supposed to. No, she only does biological weapons experiments... It isn't dangerous you prat!
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Post by TBeholder on Apr 28, 2010 18:06:45 GMT
and sometimes accidentally sucks people into her own personal hellworld . Yeah, but it's an improbable event and even then probably from their PoV a brief induced hallucination is less of a problem than half of the things Jack did. In any case, I really, really doubt that the Court is totalitarian. It's pretty nice. Illumi-nicey? Anyway, as i wrote, it's sorta irrelevant as far as Jack is concerned.
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Post by Mr Pitchfork on Apr 28, 2010 19:33:09 GMT
More likely they'd lock him up. (He's reached the point of dangerous paranoia where simply shifting him to another house wouldn't be enough - convinced that the entire Court is in the hands of evil masterminds bent on controlling the children enrolled at it and experimenting on them.) You know, he might not be wrong... Yes, but as far as we know, Zimmy neither stops eating, nor runs at breakneck speed, nor crushes robots, nor plays with high-power equipment when she is not supposed to. No, she only does biological weapons experiments and sometimes accidentally sucks people into her own personal hellworld . And she is capable of killing dogs with coathangers. Coathangers.
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Ruushi
Full Member
Touch the onion!!!
Posts: 146
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Post by Ruushi on Apr 28, 2010 22:00:34 GMT
If you've heard of the show V Jack might be watching too much of it with that food theory (SORT OF)
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Post by todd on Apr 28, 2010 22:39:01 GMT
In any case, I really, really doubt that the Court is totalitarian. It's pretty nice. The principal is fairly kind, if perpetually bored, and seems to care for his daughter a lot. Another disciplinary guy, Eglamore, is also very nice, and even let Annie kind of get away with tossing Winsbury. I see no evil Stalinist dictators walking around, and the guy in charge is pretty cool. The only evidence that the court is totalitarian, them going after Jack, seems pretty flimsy. I mean, if someone in a normal school stopped eating and attending classes, started freaking out other students, stole from other students, insulted other students, and was planning to break into school property, I'd send guys after him too. Of course, the behavior of the Founders (murdering Jeanne and then removing all mention of her very existence from the records) does sound totalitarian. The more benevolent tone of the teachers whom we've met could be explained (assuming that the Court really is that dark and corrupt still) by: 1. Good acting, posing as kindly people (Machiavelli advised rulers in "The Prince" to seem noble and virtuous, even when you aren't). 2. More likely (again, assuming that the Court really does have something rotten at its core), the teachers - even the Headmaster - aren't in charge, are taking orders from some hidden administration that lets them run the school and conceals its true agenda from them. Or Jack could simply be paranoid.
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Post by tyler on Apr 28, 2010 22:58:28 GMT
Or... the Court could have moved on from its dark roots?
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Post by cheddarius on Apr 28, 2010 23:09:02 GMT
Of course, the behavior of the Founders (murdering Jeanne and then removing all mention of her very existence from the records) does sound totalitarian. Not really. "Totalitarianism (or totalitarian rule) is a political system where the state, usually under the control of a single political organization, faction, or class, recognizes no limits to its authority and strives to regulate every aspect of public and private life wherever feasible." It's true that the Court regulated Jeanne's life, by killing her, but that was only one case. Now, if every student was, say, forced to worship Bismuth, and the Court showered them with propaganda praising the Court, that would be totalitarian. Of course, it's totalitarian in that the students have to go to school, but I doubt that's what you mean. As for the others, yeah, there are possible explanations, but it's a bit like saying "There's no evidence of aliens, which proves that they're here and smart enough not to leave tracks" - you have to already have stronger and stronger evidence in order to propose more and more explanations to account for discrepancies. Or Jack could simply be paranoid. Most likely. Very simple explanation, and almost definitely true considering how crazy he already is.
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Post by todd on Apr 28, 2010 23:11:33 GMT
Probably. The evidence indicates that the Founders didn't pass on the information about what they did to Jeanne to their successors, that it died with them (or would have died if Diego hadn't used his robots to record it).
So we have the question: assuming that Jack's right about the Court keeping a close watch on the students (and he's probably right about some of it - it would explain how he knows what he does about Annie and Reynardine), does it do so out of some dark, controlling purpose? Or simply as a cautionary measure, to help protect them from the dangerous environment?
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Post by todd on Apr 28, 2010 23:14:17 GMT
Not really. "Totalitarianism (or totalitarian rule) is a political system where the state, usually under the control of a single political organization, faction, or class, recognizes no limits to its authority and strives to regulate every aspect of public and private life wherever feasible." It's true that the Court regulated Jeanne's life, by killing her, but that was only one case. What I meant was that the act of, not just murdering her, but then proceeding to change the history books to omit all trace of her existence sounds like the kind of things one of those dictatorships would do.
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Post by Mezzaphor on Apr 28, 2010 23:22:07 GMT
Considering what some of the students are capable of doing, I think keeping a close eye on the students would be a necessary precaution. Not really. "Totalitarianism (or totalitarian rule) is a political system where the state, usually under the control of a single political organization, faction, or class, recognizes no limits to its authority and strives to regulate every aspect of public and private life wherever feasible." It's true that the Court regulated Jeanne's life, by killing her, but that was only one case. What I meant was that the act of, not just murdering her, but then proceeding to change the history books to omit all trace of her existence sounds like the kind of things one of those dictatorships would do. Well, the Court founders' motives for covering this up may not have been entirely self-serving. Maybe Sir Young intended that future generations be ignorant of Jeanne's death so they would have no guilt in the matter, so he and his pals would bear sole responsibility for the deed.
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