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Post by waffled20 on Dec 19, 2009 17:06:12 GMT
The fact that Diego didn't offer up "the traitor" as a sacrifice instead of Jeanne could mean several things, one of which (my personal preference) is that "the traitor" isn't on their side of the waters, meaning he's a human, or animal, on the other side.
"This brings to my mind: Ysengrin. Why would he take such a humanoid form if he hates them so much, could he have taken it after falling for Jeanne?"
This is wild speculation on my part, and there are several blanks in my theory I can't fill in on my own, such as why she's stuck down there now, or why the waters were uncrossable, however both probably have to do with that arrow.
"Edited some parts after different facts were pointed out."
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Post by tustin2121 on Dec 19, 2009 17:34:32 GMT
This brings to my mind: Ysengrin. Why would he take such a humanoid form if he hates them so much, maybe it's just what he was before his 'test'. Ysengrin has always been a etheric dog, as seen here: www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=491. He's a cousin to Coyote too, who is also an etheric dog, and probably doesn't have any human cousins.
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Post by violet on Dec 20, 2009 2:36:13 GMT
I pretty much thing they ritually murdered her and bound her soul to create a seal over the Annan Waters, then erased her in memory to conceal their shame. They likely didn't expect her actual ghost to hang around, but who knows? I suspect also that the traitor Jeanne loved has nothing to do with the story beyond fueling Diego's insanity, obsession, and rage. The guy who didn't like the plan will be told, “we understand, it's okay, you don't have to worry anymore.” He's impotent. He didn't do anything to stop them, and so is complicit despite his protests. Annie's position here is clear, if we are to believe Muut's word on Jeanne and the"world where she resides." It would be kinda funny if Jeanne's spirit is hiding somewhere in Zimmy's Birmingham. Not so much funny ha-ha, but still.
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Post by wynne on Dec 20, 2009 19:10:07 GMT
Am I the only one to find that amazingly odd? GC seems to be centered on science, yet they don't know, even don't care how they robots work. Maybe Diego's lasting contribution to the court was building these completely independent robots, and the court just doesn't care because they know that they work and that's enouh, but I still think that it's very very strange. The original Court seems much more pro-etheric than today's Court. The Court is, after all, "Man's endeavor to become God," and God seems to not have much if a problem with the explanation "it just does." Plus, remember that since the robots began taking care of themselves, they have been forced to drastically simplify their models. The original models fall apart, disappear, retire, whatever, and the newer versions are simple enough that even Annie can make a robot. That's why Kat can build Robot a new body, but she still can't understand how S1 moves at all. Chances are that by the time the Court began moving farther away from accepting etheric tenet, the robots were already dumbed down enough that the Court could understand them.
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Post by idonotlikepeas on Dec 20, 2009 20:01:01 GMT
I don't think it's a matter of pro- or anti-etheric, really. The Court calls them the "etheric sciences" because they are treating the process as a scientific area of inquiry. Imagine if provable magic existed in the real world and scientists decided to investigate it. How would they do so? They would create experiments designed to determine the rules by which magic operated, turning it from a vague unknown ("it just does, okay?") to a set of principles which could be folded into the overall principles by which reality is known to operate. (In fact, this type of experiment has actually been done in the real world on numerous occasions to little good effect.)
That's basically what the court is doing. They're willing to make use of the etheric, sure, as long as they can understand the process by which it all works. That's the magic/technology split in this comic: the court wants to /understand the rules/ and the forest is content to know that it does work and doesn't bother questioning why. The Court wants to take magic and turn it into a branch of science, like physics or chemistry. So when Diego makes his robots, he may be powering them by means we in the real world would consider magical, but he understands why they work they way they do, which makes them more kosher from the science-oriented perspective of the Court.
It does seem that attitude has fallen out of favor, though. Or perhaps Diego never passed on his knowledge of robotics to anyone else before he died.
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aurix
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Post by aurix on Dec 20, 2009 22:19:48 GMT
This brings to my mind: Ysengrin. Why would he take such a humanoid form if he hates them so much, maybe it's just what he was before his 'test'. Ysengrin has always been a etheric dog, as seen here: www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=491. He's a cousin to Coyote too, who is also an etheric dog, and probably doesn't have any human cousins. I just noticed that a couple pages down, here, coyote says "the court had done something to the flowing river and nothing could cross. Eventually a bridge was made, on their terms."
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Post by Seth Thresher on Dec 20, 2009 22:44:40 GMT
I don't think it's a matter of pro- or anti-etheric, really. The Court calls them the "etheric sciences" because they are treating the process as a scientific area of inquiry. Imagine if provable magic existed in the real world and scientists decided to investigate it. How would they do so? They would create experiments designed to determine the rules by which magic operated, turning it from a vague unknown ("it just does, okay?") to a set of principles which could be folded into the overall principles by which reality is known to operate. (In fact, this type of experiment has actually been done in the real world on numerous occasions to little good effect.) That's basically what the court is doing. They're willing to make use of the etheric, sure, as long as they can understand the process by which it all works. That's the magic/technology split in this comic: the court wants to /understand the rules/ and the forest is content to know that it does work and doesn't bother questioning why. The Court wants to take magic and turn it into a branch of science, like physics or chemistry. So when Diego makes his robots, he may be powering them by means we in the real world would consider magical, but he understands why they work they way they do, which makes them more kosher from the science-oriented perspective of the Court. It does seem that attitude has fallen out of favor, though. Or perhaps Diego never passed on his knowledge of robotics to anyone else before he died. Yeah, perhaps Diego had planned on passing this on later on in his life and died a bit sooner than he had imagined he would (seeing how set his is in his perceptions of reality and what happens when what he wishes goes against what he will). Also, it could just be that he didn't see anybody quite worth passing the knowledge down to, and just told the robots to maintain and keep the course.
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Post by Casey on Dec 21, 2009 5:23:40 GMT
Maybe the three hours is the amount of time they gave Jeanne to rendezvous with her hippie Forest friends and get out of the ravine before they dropped the "bomb" on the gorge.
Maybe, this has something to do with "The Test". I think we should try to apply what we know about "The Test" from what Red/Blue said about it, to Jeanne's situation. Maybe they weren't killing Jeanne per se, but sending her to be with her Foresty friends.
Well where did the ghost come from, I hear you ask? Maybe it's like someone said above, and it's an etheric doppelganger. That would explain why the psychopomps can't "reach" her/it... she/it isn't real.
It would also explain how they would get a ghost, of a person who loved the Forest, to stand guard against the Forest. If it's Jeanne's real ghost, why would she behave the opposite of what was important to her in life?
Anyway, another theory to toss on top of the bonfire. But I do think it's worth thinking about "The Test" and where exactly Red and Blue got their bodies they're using now, and what they said about having to -stay down there- until they passed the test... which they couldn't do if they "cheated"... perhaps all of that is somehow related to Jeanne's situation.
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Post by geminisun on Dec 21, 2009 7:13:25 GMT
I just want to know did Sir Young suddenly grow a pimpin' beard or is that a swank fur collar or is that not the same guy from two pages ago or what because I am confused but he is looking pretty awesome all the same.
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