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Post by Mezzaphor on Dec 11, 2009 9:52:14 GMT
I'm still stuck on the arrow head. If it's a grenade, why put it on a forkhead arrow? Isn't it more usual that one uses an arrow which sticks to something? The same thing goes for poisoning the water, why use that kind of an arrow. I do think there is a significance to the arrow head, why would Tom otherwise take the trouble to draw an unusual arrow head? I think the arrowhead matters. Looks a bit like this: www.arco-iris.com/George/images/whistling_arrow_karimata.jpgAnd BTW, hello everyone Ahh. So the split arrow head (the karimata) is for hunting game, while the bulb behind it (a kaburi-ya) whistles while the arrow is in flight.
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CGAdam
Junior Member
Posts: 86
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Post by CGAdam on Dec 11, 2009 9:57:36 GMT
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Post by sostorm on Dec 11, 2009 10:07:51 GMT
I'm still stuck on the arrow head. If it's a grenade, why put it on a forkhead arrow? Isn't it more usual that one uses an arrow which sticks to something? The same thing goes for poisoning the water, why use that kind of an arrow. I do think there is a significance to the arrow head, why would Tom otherwise take the trouble to draw an unusual arrow head? I think the arrowhead matters. Looks a bit like this: www.arco-iris.com/George/images/whistling_arrow_karimata.jpgAnd BTW, hello everyone Hello to you too! Interesting. I just think that since Diego is quite the advanced technician there might be more to the arrow than just whistling. It could however be so many things. Maybe it sounds way more than a normal signal arrow would, maybe it spreads something other than sounds.
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Post by sostorm on Dec 11, 2009 10:14:10 GMT
Also, since English is not my first language I have a question on once of the sentences. Specifically the last one. What does "fly true" mean? Is it just an expression for flying perfect or is there another meaning to it? Google wouldn't help me on this.
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Alex
Full Member
Posts: 165
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Post by Alex on Dec 11, 2009 10:21:44 GMT
Yes, essentially. An arrow that flies true finds its mark.
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Post by nautus on Dec 11, 2009 10:56:27 GMT
I am thinking that it is entirely possible that in the process of doing what ever he does with the arrow, Sir Young accidenlty kills Jeanne, (she possibly commits suicide by throwing herself in the way?) Because the arrow was created to seperate the scientific and etheric(sp?) realms its the reason why Jeanne is now trapped. Diego feels guilty because he made the arrow, and angry at Young for actually doing the killing.
Or maybe Sir Young is vying for Jeannes affections as well and gets througly pissed off about whoever Jeannes lover is enough to kill her over it.
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Post by hal9000 on Dec 11, 2009 12:06:44 GMT
Looks a bit like an RPG, to me. Or a rifle grenade, which might be a more appropriate comparison... Dunno if there's such a thing as an arrow grenade. I don't see why there couldn't be such a thing, since they had something conceptually-similar in Rambo: First Blood pt. 2. The shape of the arrowhead aside, this is clearly no mere arrow, since they needed Diego to make it and it seems to be glowing with a radioactive green tinge. I'd give pretty good odds someone is going to get murderized by it in the next few pages.
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coyotagoat
Junior Member
Helluva poker face.
Posts: 65
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Post by coyotagoat on Dec 11, 2009 13:10:07 GMT
Good info on the type of arrow- when I saw it, first made me think of a divining rod. Could maybe fit with the Annan waters? Also: sir young, you are OLD
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Post by Rawhide on Dec 11, 2009 13:23:03 GMT
Thanks to rafita on his link, I have dug up some further information on the type of arrow here. Whether the arrow is for the same purpose as these were used for remains to be seen, but those types of arrows certainly did exist. There were two parts to these arrows, the forked head and the whistle.
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Post by Seth Thresher on Dec 11, 2009 15:40:10 GMT
Not hugely important but: Diego is carrying the small robot in his pocket. It has always been able to move its head. Ohhhhhh! That makes a lot more sense now
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Post by judgedeadd on Dec 11, 2009 15:44:47 GMT
It's a bit of a pity that Tom doesn't give his characters unique speech bubble colors anymore. Since this is Wikipedia we're talking about, here's the sentence cgadam was talking about: ... simply carrying a kabura-ya [signal arrow] is meant to serve as a ward against evil spirits.
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Post by Rafita on Dec 11, 2009 15:52:56 GMT
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Post by trav3ler on Dec 11, 2009 16:06:19 GMT
The karimata is an arrow for hunting large game...
I don't think this has anything to do with making the Annan Waters impassible. I think this is an assassination attempt on Coyote.
I would also postulate that this arrow is the cause of Jeanne's death, either directly (hitting her somehow) or indirectly (The result of this "scheme" causing her so much grief that she commits suicide...?) Ok, maybe that's a bit of a stretch, but I still think it's a possibility.
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Post by yazzydream on Dec 11, 2009 16:46:26 GMT
You are amazing. I'm beginning to agree that that's definitely what's made the water impassable. The steadman is so hot. LAUGHING ON LINE, he actually reminds me of Eglamore. No particular reason, I think it's just because they're both good looking. So... Did Sir Young's hair all fall out? I guess that makes sense, shows the passage of time since the Humans and the Creatures of the Forest gathered round the bismuth. Nice touch there, Tom! But wait, I didn't notice this before, but did the people and the creatures get into disagreements because Cayote's God powers? Were they the reason the Court's people got jealous? They came to the woods before Cayote, Ysengrin, and Rey got there... And then they split up afterwards.
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Post by Mr Pitchfork on Dec 11, 2009 17:27:41 GMT
So analyzing that whole title page:
On the top half, there is the sun and the moon and Coyote above the forest. Then there's the forest with the glass-eyed men. Then there's Yssy.
Then there is the river, which I'll get to in a moment.
Then on the Court side, there's Eggers and Annie, correct? I just want to get these basic facts out of the way before moving on.
Anyway, on the right side of the bridge there are three things: a gear, an arrow, and something else, perhaps an eye or a halo. The gear represents the Tic-Toc, right? So that 'something else' should represent Jeanne's ghost.
I just wanted to form a full analysis of the page to make things clearer. That arrow could very well be what makes it impossible to cross the river, and it isn't necessary that Jeanne's ghost actually crossed the river if ghosts can cast illusions.
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Post by Mylian on Dec 11, 2009 17:28:37 GMT
The karimata is an arrow for hunting large game...I don't think this has anything to do with making the Annan Waters impassible. I think this is an assassination attempt on Coyote. I would also postulate that this arrow is the cause of Jeanne's death, either directly (hitting her somehow) or indirectly (The result of this "scheme" causing her so much grief that she commits suicide...?) Ok, maybe that's a bit of a stretch, but I still think it's a possibility. I think you're half right. I don't think their intent is to make the Waters impassable, but it looks like that will be the effect of whatever happens.
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Post by Goatmon on Dec 11, 2009 17:35:26 GMT
So analyzing that whole title page: On the top half, there is the sun and the moon and Coyote above the forest. Then there's the forest with the glass-eyed men. Then there's Yssy. Then there is the river, which I'll get to in a moment. Then on the Court side, there's Eggers and Annie, correct? I just want to get these basic facts out of the way before moving on. Anyway, on the right side of the bridge there are three things: a gear, an arrow, and something else, perhaps an eye or a halo. The gear represents the Tic-Toc, right? So that 'something else' should represent Jeanne's ghost. I just wanted to form a full analysis of the page to make things clearer. That arrow could very well be what makes it impossible to cross the river, and it isn't necessary that Jeanne's ghost actually crossed the river if ghosts can cast illusions. Since when was that cut an illusion? It's quite visible whenever she's using the blinker stone. Being that it isn't a physically visible wound doesn't make it an illusion. Or did I miss something?
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Post by Mr Pitchfork on Dec 11, 2009 17:38:29 GMT
It could still affect her spiritually. Why should ghosts actually have to touch you to affect you spiritually?
Then again, Mort can be bested by a flute, so it's possible that are limited by space.z
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Post by Casey on Dec 11, 2009 18:04:25 GMT
The scenario that the arrow is designed to injure an etheric creature is a sound theory, and the idea that Jeanne steps in front of it to save whichever god-creature she's (theoretically) in love with is reasonable. It would also explain why her ghost is down there and why the psychopomps can't help her, if the weapon was designed to hurt someone etherically instead of physically.
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Post by Casey on Dec 11, 2009 18:12:28 GMT
P.S. we dismissed out of hand the possibility that it was Ysengrin that Jeanne was in love with, but, if she did sacrifice herself to stop an assassination attempt on him because she was in love with him, then that would certainly explain why he hates the humans so much.
I'm just saying...
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Post by King Mir on Dec 11, 2009 18:22:48 GMT
Rey does not seem to know anything about her, and if she were in love with Yesengrin or Coyote I would expect him to. It's probably someone else.
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Post by Casey on Dec 11, 2009 19:15:54 GMT
I know... I'm just sowing the seeds of speculation. Of course Rey seems to profess not to know anything about the early events of the Court/Forest issue, even though he was there at the time (because he came with Coyote, during Sir Young's and Diego's lifetimes.)
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Post by Per on Dec 11, 2009 20:55:35 GMT
How does this make the "Diego hates Young" theory unlikely? I thought the theory was that Diego felt Young was to blame for Jeann's death, but if she's still alive at this point Diego has no reason to hate him yet. Yep. The obvious guess would be that the uranium arrow will be used against the forest in some manner, Jeanne will attempt to stop it and perish in a nonstandard manner. Possibly Diego will want to call off the plan when Jeanne appears but Young will give the order to proceed, and various people will do nothing. I believe Tom said in response to endless speculation that that arrow was just denoting the direction the river flows. Of course, he may have been dissembling.
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Post by Casey on Dec 11, 2009 22:00:13 GMT
Holy crap I think I just figured out what's going to happen...
The arrow isn't to assassinate someone in the Forest. It is to assassinate the WHOLE FOREST.
It's an anti-magic arrow. They intend to fire it across the Ravine and instantly eradicate all magic in the forest, turning it into a normal forest and effectively killing or driving away all the etheric creatures.
Jeanne learns of this and steps in front of the arrow, thus separating her spirit from her body, and they both (her spirit and her body) fall down into the ravine, deploying the anti-magic in the river (hence why nothing can cross) as well as stranding Jeanne's ghost there.
It's a theory anyway.
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Post by Mr Pitchfork on Dec 11, 2009 22:01:47 GMT
I did have the thought that the horde of robots represented people of the Court, which fits into the idea of the whole robot show being a play, but I didn't think about the implications for whatever reason.
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Post by todd on Dec 11, 2009 23:23:33 GMT
I'd speculated in the past (though this chapter may prove me wrong) that the Court didn't deliberately make Annan Waters impassable, but it was a side effect from their activities and scientific investigations (maybe etheric waste dumped into the river). Chapter Nineteen showed that these can indeed have alarming unforeseen consequences (I assume that they didn't know what their rain-making experiments were doing to Zimmy) - the same thing could have happened with the river, and when the Court faculty discovered it, they might have been unable to reverse the effects. (Of course, if they anticipated trouble from the forest-folk over some of their past activities, they might have welcomed the idea of Annan becoming a barrier against the inhabitants of Gillitie, especially Ysengrin.)
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Post by isabellemoerman on Dec 11, 2009 23:49:28 GMT
So analyzing that whole title page: On the top half, there is the sun and the moon and Coyote above the forest. Then there's the forest with the glass-eyed men. Then there's Yssy. Then there is the river, which I'll get to in a moment. Then on the Court side, there's Eggers and Annie, correct? I just want to get these basic facts out of the way before moving on. Anyway, on the right side of the bridge there are three things: a gear, an arrow, and something else, perhaps an eye or a halo. The gear represents the Tic-Toc, right? So that 'something else' should represent Jeanne's ghost. I just wanted to form a full analysis of the page to make things clearer. That arrow could very well be what makes it impossible to cross the river, and it isn't necessary that Jeanne's ghost actually crossed the river if ghosts can cast illusions. There's also the possibility that the arrow is just there to indicate the directional flow of the river.
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Post by nikita on Dec 12, 2009 0:35:47 GMT
One day I'll write a long parody of everybody speculating and making up the most improbable stories imaginable.
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Post by King Mir on Dec 12, 2009 1:06:39 GMT
I know... I'm just sowing the seeds of speculation. Of course Rey seems to profess not to know anything about the early events of the Court/Forest issue, even though he was there at the time (because he came with Coyote, during Sir Young's and Diego's lifetimes.) He claimed not to know anything about seed bismouth, which was before his time. He could have known some of the residents of the court when coyote split the forest, but it seems that coyote split the forest rather soon, and besides which the court an forest creatures were on rough terms. So it is not inconsistent that Rey knows little about the early court inhabitants. Come to think of it though, Rey probably would be aware of all of the court's Mediums, which means that Jeanie was very likely not a Medium. Of course this chapter is already making that theory seem unlikely for other reasons. One day I'll write a long parody of everybody speculating and making up the most improbable stories imaginable. I'd love to read that.
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canus
New Member
Posts: 21
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Post by canus on Dec 12, 2009 1:38:38 GMT
It took me forever to understand the perspective here. The way I see it, cam-bot is in Diego's pocket in the first two panels (as has been said). The first two panels show Diego carrying the box, with his fingers clutching it on the far side.
As for the arrow... odd weight, glowing green, poisons the waters...
Diego...
You wouldn't NUKE the forest, would you?
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