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Post by Runningflame on Dec 22, 2021 20:10:44 GMT
So... uh... is it okay if I say I think Shell's outfit looks ridiculous? (True story: in my first split-second of seeing the page and not reading the speech bubbles thoroughly, my brain initially filled in the dialogue as "Who... the... heck thought I would look good in this?!") Anyway. If she likes it, then good for her. Also I agree that Kat's and Annie's outfits are nice.
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Post by antiyonder on Dec 22, 2021 20:49:19 GMT
So if she is bother by all these people I guess the only thing that can be said "You don't know anything. Leave your stupid comments in your pocket!".
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novia
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Post by novia on Dec 22, 2021 21:24:21 GMT
i like how her top is the bacon 🥓
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Post by lurkerbot on Dec 23, 2021 0:07:58 GMT
The combination of Michelle's (Shell's) words, body language, and outfit leaves me -- confused, very confused.
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Post by speedwell on Dec 23, 2021 0:20:25 GMT
The combination of Michelle's (Shell's) words, body language, and outfit leaves me -- confused, very confused. Well, we don't have any context. I imagine it's also reflective of Shell's internal confusion and her own lack of context. I find it impossible that the Court as a whole didn't know. Could Shell and Aata have been laying low somewhere away from the flow of news?
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Post by atteSmythe on Dec 23, 2021 2:32:14 GMT
Ah, so Shell is the angry chef from Good Place. I can dig it.
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Post by maxptc on Dec 23, 2021 3:23:18 GMT
But why is Shell here? It seems like she was expected, but I don't understand why Kat and Annie would do that. If you've been successful in keeping the new people hidden, why reveal them to Shell? Even if you trust her, I fail to see the upside of letting her in on the secret.
Also, I like the outfit, the shoes are a nice touch. Someone with Shells legs and height wearing a short dress and heels is a big yes from me.
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Post by blahzor on Dec 23, 2021 6:37:58 GMT
But why is Shell here? It seems like she was expected, but I don't understand why Kat and Annie would do that. If you've been successful in keeping the new people hidden, why reveal them to Shell? Even if you trust her, I fail to see the upside of letting her in on the secret. Also, I like the outfit, the shoes are a nice touch. Someone with Shells legs and height wearing a short dress and heels is a big yes from me. Annie said she could introduce her to a great new guy... He use to be or work with boxes
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Post by drmemory on Dec 23, 2021 7:24:39 GMT
Very odd. Shell just doesn't seem all that attractive to me. I suspect it's the personality - she always seems cranky at best. Like, she doesn't look good in a dress really, but it's because it's like stuffing a pissed-off badger in a dress. Or maybe a porcupine. Frankly, she looks more natural in her uniform - more comfortable? She looked a lot more comfortable and natural walking out of the tunnel at the end of the last chapter, even with the near-death experience and the Loup disaster. Pretty puzzled as to why she's here. I suppose it's possible she was asked out by an NP, but wasn't it established that Aata is her big crush? If she's meeting Aata here, that's even weirder! I could definitely imagine her being sent to spy by Aata, but we're missing too much context to have any clue as to whether that is possible. If she's meeting Annie here, well this seems like a weird place for Annie to set up a meet. Who else could she be meeting? For a date, right? Given the dress and heels. The only person it might make sense to meet there, that might not think of all the NPs around as a problem, would be Kat, but she was still in a pretty committed relationship with Paz last we heard. Also, Kat didn't even react when she showed up - Annie is the one who gave her the arched eyebrow look, then tried to calm her down. I interpreted that as Annie's "What the heck is she doing here, and in a dress? Maybe I can help somehow." look. So if she wasn't aiming for Annie, she is there to meet someone else, perhaps an NP, and just happened to see Annie first, whom she knew. Sorta. Oh well. I guess now we pay the price for the near-fan-service meet/cute!
Are there blind dates in GK? It would be funny (at least to me) if she were there for a date with S13!
Also, as stated by several in the thread, she isn't doing too well fashion-wise. I'm an older dude, nearly clueless about women's fashion, but even I know that it isn't normal for a girl to show up in a dress and heels without so much as a clutch purse, not to mention accessories! The body language is odd too - for example, the clenched fists. I certainly get the recurring trans theories!
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Post by speedwell on Dec 23, 2021 10:25:25 GMT
Very odd. Shell just doesn't seem all that attractive to me. I suspect it's the personality - she always seems cranky at best. Like, she doesn't look good in a dress really, but it's because it's like stuffing a pissed-off badger in a dress. Or maybe a porcupine. Frankly, she looks more natural in her uniform - more comfortable? She looked a lot more comfortable and natural walking out of the tunnel at the end of the last chapter, even with the near-death experience and the Loup disaster. Pretty puzzled as to why she's here. I suppose it's possible she was asked out by an NP, but wasn't it established that Aata is her big crush? If she's meeting Aata here, that's even weirder! I could definitely imagine her being sent to spy by Aata, but we're missing too much context to have any clue as to whether that is possible. If she's meeting Annie here, well this seems like a weird place for Annie to set up a meet. Who else could she be meeting? For a date, right? Given the dress and heels. The only person it might make sense to meet there, that might not think of all the NPs around as a problem, would be Kat, but she was still in a pretty committed relationship with Paz last we heard. Also, Kat didn't even react when she showed up - Annie is the one who gave her the arched eyebrow look, then tried to calm her down. I interpreted that as Annie's "What the heck is she doing here, and in a dress? Maybe I can help somehow." look. So if she wasn't aiming for Annie, she is there to meet someone else, perhaps an NP, and just happened to see Annie first, whom she knew. Sorta. Oh well. I guess now we pay the price for the near-fan-service meet/cute!
Are there blind dates in GK? It would be funny (at least to me) if she were there for a date with S13!
Also, as stated by several in the thread, she isn't doing too well fashion-wise. I'm an older dude, nearly clueless about women's fashion, but even I know that it isn't normal for a girl to show up in a dress and heels without so much as a clutch purse, not to mention accessories! The body language is odd too - for example, the clenched fists. I certainly get the recurring trans theories!
Someone paged "pissed off badger"? No, seriously. Shell isn't attractive. Let's just specify that for the court. She's the picture in the dictionary next to the word "awkward". Her personality is something best described as "OK if you hold your nose". She is a decent portrayal of something called "disorganised attachment style", which in a nutshell means that she was let down so much in early childhood that she no longer trusts the world and the people in it to meet her needs. It is common for a young girl perceived as repellent to notice that she is pushed to the sidelines and ignored. Aata, therefore, must have been the one person in the world who met her emotional needs so completely that she took a giant step and trusted him and unsurprisingly became attached to him. There's a lot of the father-daughter dynamic in their relationship, as there is naturally in many relationships between adults up to and including marriage. Aata must have met one of her aching needs by telling her she is beautiful to him. She'd hardly have made the effort to dress up for anyone else because she fully expects to be let down again by their reaction. Annie's polite comment must have hit her with special force, since it's something Shell will never take for granted, and it's unlikely that Annie realised this. You're right, by the way, that she is clueless about how to dress (this coming from someone whose everyday uniform is a pair of cheap black trousers, a long sweater, a neck scarf or cowl, a beret, and Crocs, so the fact that you and I both remarked on it means it is screamingly obvious). The clenched fists just means she is deeply uncomfortable, though; she is the type who would assume in advance that her appearance is being judged and scorned, and she's being "pre-aggressive". It's a tribute to Annie's mediumship skills that the first thing out of her mouth is a reassurance that Shell's appearance meets with her approval. Shell's reaction is one of pleased surprise, though the "fight" hormones haven't had time to leave her body. As for the "trans" thing, that's ridiculous and just part of the way we sexualise "pretty" in this culture. Unattractive women are always masculinised because to be feminine in our culture equals being attractive, and the reverse is also the case - particularly attractive men come in for "pretty boy" derision. Although that's even more complex in men because being effeminate can be seen as a sort of unattractiveness in itself. It's interesting to watch this dynamic play out in a STEM workplace... well, "interesting" in a sort of "grisly fascination" sense, anyway. Edit: Kat chose an out-of-the-way location so that her activities and the presence of the robots would not attract undue attention. It strikes me as plausible that Shell and Aata might have wanted a similarly isolated location to meet in, possibly with a few like-minded people, and it just made sense that a particular location happened to be the best choice on the map to anyone who might have wanted to carry out activities in secret. We do that all the time at my house in the form of "I'll hide the special snacks in the most unlikely place in the kitchen" - if I think to myself, "where would I hide yummy biccies", I will nearly always find them on the second try.
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Post by csj on Dec 23, 2021 12:18:12 GMT
But why is Shell here? It seems like she was expected, but I don't understand why Kat and Annie would do that. If you've been successful in keeping the new people hidden, why reveal them to Shell? Even if you trust her, I fail to see the upside of letting her in on the secret. Also, I like the outfit, the shoes are a nice touch. Someone with Shells legs and height wearing a short dress and heels is a big yes from me. Annie said she could introduce her to a great new guy... He use to be or work with boxes they're big in stationery
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Post by csj on Dec 23, 2021 12:23:36 GMT
No, seriously. Shell isn't attractive. Let's just specify that for the court. She's the picture in the dictionary next to the word "awkward". Her personality is something best described as "OK if you hold your nose". She is a decent portrayal of something called "disorganised attachment style", which in a nutshell means that she was let down so much in early childhood that she no longer trusts the world and the people in it to meet her needs.
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Post by speedwell on Dec 23, 2021 12:55:30 GMT
No, seriously. Shell isn't attractive. Let's just specify that for the court. She's the picture in the dictionary next to the word "awkward". Her personality is something best described as "OK if you hold your nose". She is a decent portrayal of something called "disorganised attachment style", which in a nutshell means that she was let down so much in early childhood that she no longer trusts the world and the people in it to meet her needs. Get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, did you? You might want to inform yourself on the theory of attachment styles before accusing me of mental illness. Without that you just look like an asshole.
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novia
Full Member
Posts: 228
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Post by novia on Dec 23, 2021 17:46:57 GMT
I would really love it if we could get a blanket ban on posts about why a female comicbook character isn't attractive. This never happens for the male characters...
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Post by drmemory on Dec 23, 2021 19:16:36 GMT
I would really love it if we could get a blanket ban on posts about why a female comicbook character isn't attractive. This never happens for the male characters... This is true. What you DO get is big-time criticisms of male characters. Their actions, their attitudes, etc. Look at any number of past threads about Tony and Aata, to name two that have been singled out. Actually, I seem to recall a few messages about Aata's appearance - it's just that male appearance is criticized by males differently, based on what they care about. So you see words like "smug" and "condescending" and "evil plotter"... Now that I think about it, wasn't there a series of posts about him being an evil little round guy, comparing him to various small round animals?
My post above was an attempt to explain why I find Shell creepy. I tried to analyze it, but am not sure I really identified the core reasons yet.
To be fair, if a male character showed up dressed for a date, but with some sort of obvious fashion issue (like a jacket and tie without pants?), and with the same attitude and saying the same things the same way, I'd have made quite similar comments. I don't know what is wrong with Shell, but something clearly is going on there.
Also, you don't get to decide what others post. If people are not polite or are personally abrasive to each other, then that's worth bringing up to the admins. Civil discourse about this comic, and the characters and events therein, is the point of this message base. Not to mention theories about what is going on, why characters act the way they do, and why other characters and the human readers react to them as they do! Really want to censor what we are allowed to talk about?
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Post by csj on Dec 23, 2021 19:51:08 GMT
Psychoanalysing and 'diagnosing' a fictional character based on clothing choice on One Page is probably inadvisable. Shell is only just emerging as more than a background character. If you want to apply a label to someone and scrutinise every detail for 'evidence' that validates your suppositions odds are you will find it.
Chill
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Post by csj on Dec 23, 2021 19:54:04 GMT
Reminds me of nosegate tbh
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Post by speedwell on Dec 23, 2021 20:16:39 GMT
Psychoanalysing and 'diagnosing' a fictional character based on clothing choice on One Page is probably inadvisable. Shell is only just emerging as more than a background character. If you want to apply a label to someone and scrutinise every detail for 'evidence' that validates your suppositions odds are you will find it. Chill It's in bounds to speculate knowledgeably about a fictional character. It's out of bounds to deliberately insult an actual person, particularly when you know nothing of the psychological theory you are attempting to poke fun at, know-nothing. I suggest you should have "chilled" long before you made that nasty little comment.
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Post by warrl on Dec 23, 2021 22:21:29 GMT
Besides, it's not as if anyone ever over-analyzes anything on the internet...
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Post by maxptc on Dec 23, 2021 23:53:49 GMT
Psychoanalysing and 'diagnosing' a fictional character based on clothing choice on One Page is probably inadvisable. Shell is only just emerging as more than a background character. If you want to apply a label to someone and scrutinise every detail for 'evidence' that validates your suppositions odds are you will find it. Chill It's in bounds to speculate knowledgeably about a fictional character. It's out of bounds to deliberately insult an actual person, particularly when you know nothing of the psychological theory you are attempting to poke fun at, know-nothing. I suggest you should have "chilled" long before you made that nasty little comment. I don't care at all about the analysis part of this discourse, that's all you two, but this irked me. How is it out of bounds when csj insults you, but you can insult them? Because they think you're overreaching and projecting they don't have the psychoanalysis skills you do and are a know nothing? Seems like a personal insult. Csj gif and response was an insult of your analysis imo, but even if it was a personal insult/you took it personal doesn't mean you get the moral high ground and free reign to be a dick. One or the other, sure but not both. Insults are either okay in the discourse or they are not. You're being intentionally condescending, which again who gives a shit, but if you dont want stones thown at you, don't talk down to people or move out of that glass house.
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Post by speedwell on Dec 24, 2021 0:13:16 GMT
It's in bounds to speculate knowledgeably about a fictional character. It's out of bounds to deliberately insult an actual person, particularly when you know nothing of the psychological theory you are attempting to poke fun at, know-nothing. I suggest you should have "chilled" long before you made that nasty little comment. I don't care at all about the analysis part of this discourse, that's all you two, but this irked me. How is it out of bounds when csj insults you, but you can insult them? Because they think you're overreaching and projecting they don't have the psychoanalysis skills you do and are a know nothing? Seems like a personal insult. Csj gif and response was an insult of your analysis imo, but even if it was a personal insult/you took it personal doesn't mean you get the moral high ground and free reign to be a dick. One or the other, sure but not both. Insults are either okay in the discourse or they are not. You're being intentionally condescending, which again who gives a shit, but if you dont want stones thown at you, don't talk down to people or move out of that glass house. Oh, so it's OK for csj to be nasty, but not for me to point out where they were out of bounds and had no leg to stand on. Noted.
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Post by maxptc on Dec 24, 2021 0:26:25 GMT
I don't care at all about the analysis part of this discourse, that's all you two, but this irked me. How is it out of bounds when csj insults you, but you can insult them? Because they think you're overreaching and projecting they don't have the psychoanalysis skills you do and are a know nothing? Seems like a personal insult. Csj gif and response was an insult of your analysis imo, but even if it was a personal insult/you took it personal doesn't mean you get the moral high ground and free reign to be a dick. One or the other, sure but not both. Insults are either okay in the discourse or they are not. You're being intentionally condescending, which again who gives a shit, but if you dont want stones thown at you, don't talk down to people or move out of that glass house. Oh, so it's OK for csj to be nasty, but not for me to point out where they were out of bounds and had no leg to stand on. Noted. Not at all, but play victim if you want. Was that gif really calling you mentally ill? Seemed like calling your analysis out, but I don't know what csj truly meant by it so maybe it was a nasty insult. And if all you did was point out they were being nasty or had a flawed analysis of your analysis I wouldn't have posted. Heck, I don't care if you're nasty in response to nasty, that tracks with me. Its the hypocrisy of your second post I take issue with, you were/felt insulted and responsed with an insult along side a comment about how insulting people isn't acceptable behavior. That's the part I think is out of bounds.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Dec 24, 2021 3:52:33 GMT
I have the sneaking suspicion that Shell is being portrayed in an unattractive way because this is a comic and her emotions are being depicted in a comically over-the-top way. Later we may see a striking transformation when we see her in a different mood. A smile, or even just a normal facial expression, would make her outfit work better. If she is here to meet someone then we may see this in the next few pages.
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Post by puntino on Dec 24, 2021 11:57:59 GMT
Oh, so it's OK for csj to be nasty, but not for me to point out where they were out of bounds and had no leg to stand on. Noted. Not at all, but play victim if you want. Was that gif really calling you mentally ill? Seemed like calling your analysis out, but I don't know what csj truly meant by it so maybe it was a nasty insult. The term "projecting" usually means the person is spinning out a theory based on real life events they've gone through. So I can see this being interpreted as a pretty poor counter-argument, as well as a completely unnecessary personal attack.
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Post by speedwell on Dec 24, 2021 13:22:10 GMT
Oh, so it's OK for csj to be nasty, but not for me to point out where they were out of bounds and had no leg to stand on. Noted. Not at all, but play victim if you want. Was that gif really calling you mentally ill? Seemed like calling your analysis out, but I don't know what csj truly meant by it so maybe it was a nasty insult. And if all you did was point out they were being nasty or had a flawed analysis of your analysis I wouldn't have posted. Heck, I don't care if you're nasty in response to nasty, that tracks with me. Its the hypocrisy of your second post I take issue with, you were/felt insulted and responsed with an insult along side a comment about how insulting people isn't acceptable behavior. That's the part I think is out of bounds. It literally said "projection". Projection is a technical term meaning that a person is seeing in someone else, without foundation, an attribute of their own. Disorganised attachment is a form of mental illness. I may be autistic but I'm not slow, folks.
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Post by blahzor on Dec 24, 2021 13:23:27 GMT
what the heck is going on is apt for the pages for this page
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Post by csj on Dec 24, 2021 15:53:42 GMT
I can understand that if you think that Shell has a mental disorder, then my tongue in cheek manner of suggesting that there is an element of projection in the line of reasoning that you were going down might be misinterpreted as an insult. I apologise for that misunderstanding, which I did not anticipate (and did not chose to emphasise). I didn't perceive that as being your primary hypothesis, one I don't really agree with.
I could have stated is that I think there is gross attributive bias in the line of reasoning that (to my understanding is); 1. Shell is Ugly, dresses 'badly' and seems to behave oddly 2. This behaviour is perceived as being consistent with a specific disorder 3. Shell must have disorganised attachment 4. Therefore Shell had an abusive childhood
I don't think there's anywhere near enough information to support this path of logic and suspect that the reason it was followed was due to personal knowledge and reading on said condition, rather than strength of evidence. Like say, a historian specializing in Rome linking every battle with flanking manoeuvres to Cannae, regardless of the whole picture.
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Post by csj on Dec 24, 2021 15:55:50 GMT
and unless there's a need for a debate on this, I'm going to go back to making silly posts, thanks for reading
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Post by razgrizx on Dec 24, 2021 17:10:51 GMT
Maybe an image of a claw reaching something really far would've been better than a projector
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Post by drewdane on Jan 12, 2022 18:44:00 GMT
Hm. Remember back when Shell was first introduced, I don't. I don't remember this character at all. About the only thing I don't like about GC is that the character page isn't updated and there are no links to "First Appearances" provided when a character who isn't one of the main protagonists shows up in a new comic after a gap. For a comic as lengthy and sprawling as GC, that makes it really hard sometimes to figure out who is who and why they're important.
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