yinglung
Full Member
It's only a tatter of mime.
Posts: 190
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Post by yinglung on Dec 17, 2017 7:24:37 GMT
"The smallest things carry the greatest weight", in an adult, is not benign. It means power and control through its very delicacy. It means everyone is holding their breath and walking on eggshells around you. It means you can be emotionally indolent and withholding and yet make everyone anticipate your slightest whim. It means that when people do what they think you want them to do, retaining the right to choose on the spot whether to award approval or pretend you didn't want it after all. It means "my feelings count more than yours". It's like those obnoxious people who speak in tones so low you are forced to tune everything else out and lean in to focus on them and only them, and then they blame you if you don't understand. The young Anne Shirley in Anne of Green Gables is "highly oversensitive", but matured out of it. Tony is "morbidly fragile" and didn't. I'm on the spectrum. I don't act like Tony. My father was on the spectrum, my husband is on the spectrum, my best friend is on the spectrum. No, adult autistics do not normally act like sociopaths. While you are completely right about how what is essentially emotional rationing can be used in a manipulative, controlling way that is entirely unacceptable, I disagree that this is what Tony is trying to do. Running with your example a bit, I think Tony isn't speaking quietly so that people have to lean in and focus, he's speaking quietly because he isn't sure if what he's saying is correct. In no way is that excusing him for emotional neglect, but I think the initial impression from his return to the court has made him seem more manipulative and controlling than he actually is. Regarding Tony getting help, that would be ideal. Given the dubious morality of the court, it might be that the only people Tony can actually trust to actually help would be the Donlans. Regarding the implication that no adult autistic acts like Tony, I suspect your sample size is insufficient to make that sort of claim. I am 28 years old, and have a very similar problem with socialization. I have yet to get diagnosed, so I don't know if I am on the spectrum, though it seems likely. Regarding the implication that Tony is a sociopath, that seems highly inaccurate. A sociopath is defined by their disregard for societal rules, and the feelings of others. They are extremely selfish. They tend to be deceitful and/or aggressive. Tony is excessively bound by societal rules. He is overwhelmed by trying to consider the feelings and expectations of others. He has spent pretty much his entire adult life trying to keep his wife alive, and then bring her back when he failed. Tony was too passive, and only recently has he actually been shown to stand up for himself. In short, he does not have anti-social personality disorder (sociopathy/psychopathy) - He has avoidant personality disorder. (The DSM IV-V entries on personality disorders)
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Post by todd on Dec 17, 2017 23:42:21 GMT
Regarding Tony getting help, that would be ideal. Given the dubious morality of the court, it might be that the only people Tony can actually trust to actually help would be the Donlans. Most likely. (Not to mention that the Court might find Antony's mental state a benefit to them, since it makes him easier to manipulate. Though the drawback was that it made him easier for Coyote to manipulate on that visit, as well.)
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Post by tc on Dec 18, 2017 1:02:10 GMT
I am impressed with this fandom. After a comic sequence like this, most people wouldn't be able to go over ten posts without a single utterance of the d word. Disestablishmentarianism? For what it's worth, I don't think it's fair to call Tony an arsehole (to use the correct regional idiom and spelling ). The central tragedy in Annie and Tony's relationship at this point is anchored in the traits they have in common. Tony believes that Annie blames him for Surma's death (based on his own analysis of the situation) and as such wants nothing to do with him. He's wrong, but nobody has told him how wrong he is as yet. We've seen Annie come near to a similar crisis point following the adventure with Jeanne, when Red decided to blame her for the danger Ayilu and Smitty were put in, and it took Kat to convince Annie that it wasn't her fault. This is because both Annie and Tony reflexively tend to take full responsibility - and blame - for things they do (and sometimes fail to do), whether it's warranted or not. For her part, Annie seems to feel that Tony is keeping her at arms' length because he is disappointed in her for cheating in school, and I wouldn't be surprised if she has lingering doubts over whether she had any part in Surma's passing (as if she had any say in being conceived - but she doesn't seem to have internalised that). It has to be said that Rey's one big "douchebag" moment didn't help matters there. I think it's mostly about the schoolwork though, which is why she's so ecstatic about Tony's praise in parting. The tragedy in need of resolution is that both of them actually really love each other and both would jump at the chance to have a closer relationship, but both of them are convinced that the other doesn't want a relationship based on a fundamental misunderstanding of the situation.
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Post by butchfairy on Dec 18, 2017 4:53:10 GMT
Progress!! Oof.
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ffkonoko
New Member
I've been a New Member for 9 years.
Posts: 44
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Post by ffkonoko on Dec 18, 2017 13:20:39 GMT
The central tragedy in Annie and Tony's relationship at this point is anchored in the traits they have in common. There definitely is a running theme of "these two characters have a LOT in common", and it really just shows that people with fundamentally identical flaws, in fiction, can be interpreted in drastically different ways due to the point of view of the narrative. If the whole comic had been the story of Tony, leading up to a disjointed clipshow of Annie mostly told via other people, quite a few people would have been going "wow, what a sociopath, can't believe she almost murdered her friend and didn't even seem to react, wow she was so cold to her friends parents" etc.
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Post by Bandolute on Dec 18, 2017 19:51:04 GMT
There definitely is a running theme of "these two characters have a LOT in common", and it really just shows that people with fundamentally identical flaws, in fiction, can be interpreted in drastically different ways due to the point of view of the narrative. If the whole comic had been the story of Tony, leading up to a disjointed clipshow of Annie mostly told via other people, quite a few people would have been going "wow, what a sociopath, can't believe she almost murdered her friend and didn't even seem to react, wow she was so cold to her friends parents" etc. Except Annie is a child and Anthony is her parent. What would be excusable in one is not in the other, and that's not even getting into how much Tony is demonstrably the worse of the two when it comes to showing their feelings. Even a disjointed clipshow of Antimony would indicate her growth, no matter who's relaying the information . Her close friends? Her peers? The forest? Jones? Psychopomps? ROTD? Even Dr. Disaster would tell you a story of a girl who started off aloof and became more involved by the end. Annie put in the effort. It took time, but she grew as a person. Even the most unflattering sample group with the most uninformed opinions (keeping in mind that TONY'S character judges have been his best pal, his best pal's wife, his own self, one guy who hates his guts, and a forest god... so, a pretty diverse spread) wouldn't give the vast majority of readers the impression that Antimony is some kind of sociopath.
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Post by pyradonis on Dec 22, 2017 13:28:31 GMT
I am impressed with this fandom. After a comic sequence like this, most people wouldn't be able to go over ten posts without a single utterance of the d word. Donald? But he was't even present...
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Post by csj on Dec 22, 2017 17:59:04 GMT
Oh, you poor faux innocent souls.
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