[1892] I - I can't even imagine it! (part 2)

[imaginaryfriend]

If only Eggers could see them now.

Limited selection of dialogue to choose from for thread title is limited.

[youwiththeface]

I don't know I'm just not....I'm kind of not picking up on any chemistry?

[zbeeblebrox]

The horror!

[soulofthereaver]

“You look just like your mother,” he says, “who looks just like a fire of suspicious origin.” - Nicole Sealey, A Violence

[arf]

Get lost, in the moment.
Is Tony going to log this occurrence? (Oh Meh Gah(d)!)

Expedition disrupted by unexpected gender issues. Has this sort of thing happened before?

SPOILER: Click to show

[drdave]

What Sorcery Is This!

[faiiry]

Oct 4, 2017 7:11:11 GMT youwiththeface said:

I don't know I'm just not....I'm kind of not picking up on any chemistry?

Same, but this chapter is pretty cute nonetheless.

Surma! I'm disappointed in you. How long did it take you to forget Eggers and his bulging biceps? Like, ten days? Less? Tsk tsk.

[faiiry]

Oct 4, 2017 8:01:37 GMT soulofthereaver said:

“You look just like your mother,” he says, “who looks just like a fire of suspicious origin.” - Nicole Sealey, A Violence

Haha, why does this sound like a Lemony Snicket quote?

[ctso74]

Is an inability to imagine a mother bug, covered in her own young, supposed to be an analogue to Carver acting charming, once in private?
Seemingly freakish bug behavior = Falling for Tony?...
Yeah, that sorts out.

[darlos9d]

Oct 4, 2017 7:11:11 GMT youwiththeface said:

I don't know I'm just not....I'm kind of not picking up on any chemistry?

Me either, but at the same time the older I get the more I look at stuff like this and think that "we're both young and attractive" is a good enough reason for, like, almost anything romantic to happen. ESPECIALLY when stuck together alone for a long time. The chemistry doesn't have to be some explosive thing that's the greatest love story every told.

I can at least say that I can believe that they've become less guarded around each other. More trusting.

[OrzBrain]

Looks to me like *something* in Surma is strongly excited by the idea of having babies, especially a great many, of multiplying without limit, spreading like. . . well, like a fire. Which is ironic because signs indicate fire elementals only ever reproduce once.

A strong drive like that might explain why the line of descent hasn't died out in the hands of someone unwilling to become a mother and give up her life for her daughter's.

Which means Surma's reaction here IS being caused by something like mind control, but not Tony's.

[zaferion]

Is "I can't even imagine it" a colloquialism or something? A saying? Or whatever? Tom keeps using it like we're supposed to know what it means, but I don't know what it means, and 9 times out of 10 when I can't understand what Surma's saying it's because she's being Too British™ for me.

[CarbonRabbit]

Hahaha! You guys, have you never just been with someone of the opposite gender, and in a moment of excitement for an experience, you're just joyful and you hug?? Not everything has to be sexualized or have chemistry. It doesn't necessarily mean she forgot about Eggman, it doesn't necessarily mean she wants to have babies. If you've ever experienced a creature giving birth, it's such a beautiful amazing thing. And I'm talking in person, not on YouTube. She just witnessed something she'd never before given thought to, and when something like that happens, we want most to share it!

In any case, they are seeing a new side of each other for the first time. They've not seen this side of each other before, which is a very real and not superficial side. So yeah, it can be a bit embarassing, and you just say "oh screw it!" to.

So yeah, this could be a spark of something. It probably is since, from what we know, they'd gotten together. And it could be, as one poster said, just one of those "young and attractive" moments, that don't really have rhyme or reason.

Don't forget, she's still in love with Eggman when they're adults, which here I think they're young adults. I can't find the chapter and page (edit: found it) but it's the scene where it's Anja and Surma talking, Surma's got short hair, and she's talking about how Eggman was off training and how she misses him.

[novia]

Oct 4, 2017 15:28:25 GMT zaferion said:

Is "I can't even imagine it" a colloquialism or something? A saying? Or whatever? Tom keeps using it like we're supposed to know what it means, but I don't know what it means, and 9 times out of 10 when I can't understand what Surma's saying it's because she's being Too British™ for me.

I can't even

[zaferion]

Oct 4, 2017 12:03:48 GMT faiiry said:

Oct 4, 2017 7:11:11 GMT youwiththeface said:

I don't know I'm just not....I'm kind of not picking up on any chemistry?

Same, but this chapter is pretty cute nonetheless.

Surma! I'm disappointed in you. How long did it take you to forget Eggers and his bulging biceps? Like, ten days? Less? Tsk tsk.

Eggers was frequently gone for long periods of time for his training, which is something we've seen Surma complain about before, so it's not like their relationship was rock solid. All their relationship needed to fall apart was for someone to be there for Surma while Eggers was gone. And that just so happens to be Tony.

[Rasselas]

Oh, I think there's plenty of chemistry in this scene, it's just not the Hollywood type of "gonna rip off each other's clothes and do it in the grass." Which has always struck me as unrealistic. This is much more subtle and believable, two people finally breaking through the barrier of awkwardness to share an honest moment with each other.

This makes me melt inside because it's what falling in love looks like. I love the subtlety of it, the gentle affection.

[jda]

Surma, please notice that you are the only one blushing. That intimacy is one-sided here.
And dont give me the "he is just not showing it". In this universe, even metalic beings an shadows CAN blush.

[Rasselas]

Oct 4, 2017 16:24:16 GMT jda said:

Surma, please notice that you are the only one blushing. That intimacy is one-sided here.
And dont give me the "he is just not showing it". In this universe, even metalic beings an shadows CAN blush.

Hey, for once he's not the one being awkward, it's Surma. His affection is pretty clear from the way he looked at her in the previous page!

I actually went back to check the other couple we knew (Jeanne and Green Elf), because their passion was more outward. Look at these guys! But their relationship is much further along at that point. Also, they don't have any obstacles like another boyfriend, or being somewhat autistic, or destined to die after having children. Well... aside from being separated by the Annan waters and Diego plotting against them. But those are outward obstacles, the ones between Surma and Tony are more inward or intrinsic to them.

And finally I noticed that Jeanne has the symbol for Shadow Men on her jacket.

[Runningflame]

TIIIITLE DROP! (in the author comment)

Also, it's official: You blushed in his arms.

[ohthatone]

Oct 4, 2017 15:28:25 GMT zaferion said:

Is "I can't even imagine it" a colloquialism or something? A saying? Or whatever? Tom keeps using it like we're supposed to know what it means, but I don't know what it means, and 9 times out of 10 when I can't understand what Surma's saying it's because she's being Too British™ for me.

not really? Though here it IS a clever play on words. at first Surma is freaking out about the possibility of stepping on baby bugs--that's what I think she can't even imagine? hurting baby anythings?

BUT at the same time she realizes Tony is actually a pretty cool dude, cool enough to like like.  and she can't even imagine it--that he could be this way, that she could have any feelings for him...

[faiiry]

Oct 4, 2017 15:41:57 GMT zaferion said:

Oct 4, 2017 12:03:48 GMT faiiry said:

Same, but this chapter is pretty cute nonetheless.

Surma! I'm disappointed in you. How long did it take you to forget Eggers and his bulging biceps? Like, ten days? Less? Tsk tsk.

Eggers was frequently gone for long periods of time for his training, which is something we've seen Surma complain about before, so it's not like their relationship was rock solid. All their relationship needed to fall apart was for someone to be there for Surma while Eggers was gone. And that just so happens to be Tony.

I definitely agree that this is the case, but I also want to point out the irony of the situation. Surma was known to be (slightly) annoyed that Eglamore was always away, but in this moment, she herself has gone away for a lengthy expedition. And she ends up with another guy because of it. 

There are also lots of layers to the situation, though. Jones seems to have accompanied Eggers on his training at some points. And we know Surma can't stand her, but we don't know why. The plot has been very thick for years now, and we are just waiting for Tom to un-thicken it. 

[stef1987]

Oct 4, 2017 7:11:11 GMT youwiththeface said:

I don't know I'm just not....I'm kind of not picking up on any chemistry?

I know right?!
it just seems so weird

[KMar]

Oct 4, 2017 17:51:09 GMT lisanela said:

Why is Tony so different in specific situations? He struggled so much to comfort Anja and years later they still can't seem to touch, yet he touched Surma immediately and now (after a relatively short time) they're hugging and laughing together. I'm sure he's been with Annie alone several times before Surma's death, and he must have been alone with Surma, Anja and Donald after this trip, in a comfortable situation for him. Why didn't he open to Anja? Anxiety can lead to extreme behaviors but Tony's is pretty strange to me: Kat must have questioned him before they became BFF, so he was capable to answer and reassure in a really stressful situation ("my best friend's daughter and daughter's best friend thinks I'm the devil"). 

in before Tony copies people's emotions and behavior as a way to cope and he can't copy a bunch of people or kids and that's why he's energetic and funny like Surma is in this chapter and a weird robot in others 

Another possibility: Tom isn't writing Tony very consistently.

[mturtle7]

Oct 4, 2017 22:25:42 GMT KMar said:

Oct 4, 2017 17:51:09 GMT lisanela said:

Why is Tony so different in specific situations? He struggled so much to comfort Anja and years later they still can't seem to touch, yet he touched Surma immediately and now (after a relatively short time) they're hugging and laughing together. I'm sure he's been with Annie alone several times before Surma's death, and he must have been alone with Surma, Anja and Donald after this trip, in a comfortable situation for him. Why didn't he open to Anja? Anxiety can lead to extreme behaviors but Tony's is pretty strange to me: Kat must have questioned him before they became BFF, so he was capable to answer and reassure in a really stressful situation ("my best friend's daughter and daughter's best friend thinks I'm the devil"). 

in before Tony copies people's emotions and behavior as a way to cope and he can't copy a bunch of people or kids and that's why he's energetic and funny like Surma is in this chapter and a weird robot in others 

Another possibility: Tom isn't writing Tony very consistently.

One of the bizarre ironies of this sort of SF comic is that in a cast of robots, fairies, gods, magicians, and a legendary French wolf in a body of living wood which he can control while also being enslaved and psychically manipulated by a Native American trickster god, the character whom readers find to be the weirdest is a regular human doctor with rather complicated feelings. It's something very unusual in SF stories - hell, it's pretty unusual even outside of the SF genre - a character who we could believe in the real world, and yet is very complicated and hard to grasp. We're used to archetypes that we can identify from a list of stories we've encountered before, but...Tony's really friggin' hard to understand. In his own way, he's almost as inscrutable in his motivations as Jones, and yet they're clearly coming from real human emotions. I've pretty much given up on trying to understand what makes Tony tick at this point (but I'm pretty sure Tom already knows, so don't worry about that KMar).

[yinglung]

Oct 4, 2017 17:51:09 GMT lisanela said:

Why is Tony so different in specific situations? He struggled so much to comfort Anja and years later they still can't seem to touch, yet he touched Surma immediately and now (after a relatively short time) they're hugging and laughing together. I'm sure he's been with Annie alone several times before Surma's death, and he must have been alone with Surma, Anja and Donald after this trip, in a comfortable situation for him. Why didn't he open to Anja? Anxiety can lead to extreme behaviors but Tony's is pretty strange to me: Kat must have questioned him before they became BFF, so he was capable to answer and reassure in a really stressful situation ("my best friend's daughter and daughter's best friend thinks I'm the devil"). 

in before Tony copies people's emotions and behavior as a way to cope and he can't copy a bunch of people or kids and that's why he's energetic and funny like Surma is in this chapter and a weird robot in others 

For me, what drew me into GK was how Antimony was flat affect main character, who we gradually see loosen up and express herself as she gets to know people better. Even then, it took longer to express herself with the rest of the class. Without going too much into it, I found that very relatable. So here we have Tony, who has a very similar dynamic, and seems fairly understandable to me. He hesitated about comforting Anja, because he is bad at dealing with other people's emotions, especially when it's his friend's girlfriend being distraught. He sees the situation, notices that Donny is already comforting her, and he is unsure about what to do exactly about it. Should he pat her shoulder? Would that be too personal? He has not encountered this sort of situation much, if at all, and he does not have a good reference as to what is expected of him.

As for touching Surma "immediately", it's important to note that in the previous pages, she was the one to initiate contact, and the one that shifted from using him as something to lean on, to a more traditional hugging posture. If she had kept her initial pose, he would have probably steadied her arms, rather than interpreted it as intent to hug.

[machiavelli33]

Seeing the innocence of good emotions happening is heartbreaking.

This story has a sad end. The saddest of ends, that only somehow got sadder as time went on.

[frogspawned]

Tony is my spirit animal.

[red4bestgirl]

Oct 4, 2017 18:16:13 GMT stef1987 said:

Oct 4, 2017 7:11:11 GMT youwiththeface said:

I don't know I'm just not....I'm kind of not picking up on any chemistry?

I know right?!
it just seems so weird

Because neither is an interesting character. Surma is just a dollar-bin clone of Annie who is lacking in any meaningful character traits and has no apparent goals or ambitions or desires, because I guess the author thought well, what's the point of that when everyone knows she dies, except there's no poignancy or tragedy to her character because her death doesn't seem to matter in the context of the story anyway. 

Tony is a dude we know primarily as an abusive father which pre-disposes us not to care about him, which is complimented by him having the personality of a lobster. His one quasi-redeeming little side-arc was about how much he loved Surma and wanted to bring her back from the dead, but since she has no personality and her death isn't being treated as a real tragedy anyway this angle loses any force retroactively.

So we have characters that are either uninteresting or uninteresting AND unlikable trapped by contrivance in a pretty and exotic locale where they have nothing to do but romp this tropical paradise together being young and attractive and this is sort of hand-waived as being enough to explain them falling in "love."

It seems so weird because normally GKC is a good comic and this slow, tedious, painful arc is basically the fucking romantic plotline from Attack of the Clones, probably the storytelling nadir of the already embarrassingly terrible SW prequels. 

[KMar]

Meanwhile, the recent turn of events in comics also provides valuable advice: any misfortunes the reader may or may not have had in love were clearly caused by a prominent lack of Brazilian beetles.

[imaginaryfriend]

Oct 5, 2017 8:24:59 GMT red4bestgirl said:

Surma is just a dollar-bin clone of Annie who is lacking in any meaningful character traits and has no apparent goals or ambitions or desires, because I guess the author thought well, what's the point of that when everyone knows she dies, except there's no poignancy or tragedy to her character because her death doesn't seem to matter in the context of the story anyway.

I won't say I disagree with that impression of Surma. However, the majority of the experience we have of Surma is Surma through Antimony's eyes as a saintly mother-figure in stark contrast to Anthony, the withdrawn and enigmatic father-figure. It's natural for a mother to spend a lot of time with a child but the requirement for passing on the fire was for Surma and Anthony to always be together. Normally parents teach kids to soothe themselves when said parents are absent by gradually increasing times of separation and through reinforcing the idea that a parent (or other reliable adult) would appear when/if needed, and the overall notion that the parents will invariably return. The weakness caused by the fire leaving plus always being together would have made Surma less able to engage in any other activities than those she can do while spending time with Antimony. So, Antimony would have gotten the impression that her mother was only interested in things they could do together. Passing the fire on would also directly impact Surma's emotions. At the very least this would have made it easier for Surma to be patient; it may have given her a less-than-fully-human range of emotions that would allow Surma to play that saintly mother role in a way that a normal person just couldn't. It's very possible that Antimony never saw her mother lose her temper in any way, shape, or form despite spending all that time together.

I think that Antimony never really knew Surma. That's why Surma may come off as a 2-dimensional character and this chapter, where Surma and Anthony are being fleshed out on purpose by Anja with the intention of changing what Antimony thinks of them, may not dovetail well with the rest of the comic until there's wider context.

Surma through Renard's perspective was more interesting.