gary
Full Member
Posts: 121
|
Post by gary on Jul 27, 2016 17:25:05 GMT
I will be entertained, but there are plenty of comics where problems are solved with violence, and GK is one of the exceptions. If they try to do this without swordplay and it happens to go awry, then I'll still be pretty happy because they tried. There will be plenty of violence after Jeanne is gone and the more violent forest monsters start attacking/infiltrating the Court. I honestly think I'd give up on the comic if the ever popular fan speculation that 'freeing Jeanne from eternal slavery and stopping her from ruthlessly murdering every innocent forest dweller who happened to come near to her is a bad thing and Annie is wrong for trying it' is supported by the comic. It's so against everything the comic has stood for. 'Getting along with our neighbours, no that can't happen, the only way there can be peace between us if we enslave an innocnet and use her as a landmine to stop anyone getting close to us'. 'Murder is way better than negotiation'.
|
|
|
Post by Daedalus on Jul 27, 2016 18:21:26 GMT
There will be plenty of violence after Jeanne is gone and the more violent forest monsters start attacking/infiltrating the Court. I honestly think I'd give up on the comic if the ever popular fan speculation that 'freeing Jeanne from eternal slavery and stopping her from ruthlessly murdering every innocent forest dweller who happened to come near to her is a bad thing and Annie is wrong for trying it' is supported by the comic. It's so against everything the comic has stood for. 'Getting along with our neighbours, no that can't happen, the only way there can be peace between us if we enslave an innocnet and use her as a landmine to stop anyone getting close to us'. 'Murder is way better than negotiation'. I think that the final result will be somewhere in the middle. Yes, "getting along with your neighbor rather than embracing close-minded xenophobia" has been a theme, but so has "Annie sees the Forest as much less dangerous than it is, and does stupid things because of that" (citation: Chapter 39). I do hope for a happy ending, and I hope that the Court and Forest reconcile...but I think there will be significant difficulties beforehand.
|
|
|
Post by csj on Jul 27, 2016 18:51:10 GMT
Artfully negating setting & period clash concerns, you clever author/artist/creator you
|
|
|
Post by freeformline on Jul 27, 2016 23:30:53 GMT
I wonder whose choice it was to put Red in men's dress? Also, Parley's dress looks vaguely reminiscent of a suit of armor.
|
|
|
Post by todd on Jul 27, 2016 23:53:59 GMT
It's so against everything the comic has stood for. 'Getting along with our neighbours, no that can't happen, the only way there can be peace between us if we enslave an innocnet and use her as a landmine to stop anyone getting close to us'. 'Murder is way better than negotiation'. Not to mention that part of the motivation for "enslav[ing] the innocent" was the suitor whom she'd rejected wanting revenge - a motivation that wasn't even "bent", but "broken".
|
|
|
Post by todd on Jul 27, 2016 23:58:39 GMT
It's so against everything the comic has stood for. 'Getting along with our neighbours, no that can't happen, the only way there can be peace between us if we enslave an innocnet and use her as a landmine to stop anyone getting close to us'. 'Murder is way better than negotiation'. I think that the final result will be somewhere in the middle. Yes, "getting along with your neighbor rather than embracing close-minded xenophobia" has been a theme, but so has "Annie sees the Forest as much less dangerous than it is, and does stupid things because of that" (citation: Chapter 39). I do hope for a happy ending, and I hope that the Court and Forest reconcile...but I think there will be significant difficulties beforehand.[/quote] And a third thread has been signs that the Court's experiments (which are most likely the main reason for the Court being next to the Forest - without which, there'd be no relations with the forest-folk, troubled or otherwise) are unwise and dangerous. I've certainly wondered whether, if we get a happy ending with genuine peace between the Court and the Forest, one of the conditions will be the Court abandoning those experiments forever and leaving the ether alone.
|
|
|
Post by OGRuddawg on Jul 28, 2016 0:10:34 GMT
Also, with this happening it really just puts into perspective at how powerful Blue is. Terrifyingly so. From what we have seen, this only applies in total ether-space. I doubt this power can manifest for any decent length of time in the physical world.
|
|
|
Post by Jelly Jellybean on Jul 28, 2016 0:15:42 GMT
There will be plenty of violence after Jeanne is gone and the more violent forest monsters start attacking/infiltrating the Court. I honestly think I'd give up on the comic if the ever popular fan speculation that 'freeing Jeanne from eternal slavery and stopping her from ruthlessly murdering every innocent forest dweller who happened to come near to her is a bad thing and Annie is wrong for trying it' is supported by the comic. It's so against everything the comic has stood for. 'Getting along with our neighbours, no that can't happen, the only way there can be peace between us if we enslave an innocnet and use her as a landmine to stop anyone getting close to us'. 'Murder is way better than negotiation'. gary , I didn't say that I thought it was right or necessary for Jeanne to stay trapped. You quoted a lot of things, none of which I recall seeing anyone say in this forum.
|
|
|
Post by Jelly Jellybean on Jul 28, 2016 0:24:13 GMT
I honestly think I'd give up on the comic if the ever popular fan speculation that 'freeing Jeanne from eternal slavery and stopping her from ruthlessly murdering every innocent forest dweller who happened to come near to her is a bad thing and Annie is wrong for trying it' is supported by the comic. It's so against everything the comic has stood for. 'Getting along with our neighbours, no that can't happen, the only way there can be peace between us if we enslave an innocnet and use her as a landmine to stop anyone getting close to us'. 'Murder is way better than negotiation'. I think that the final result will be somewhere in the middle. Yes, "getting along with your neighbor rather than embracing close-minded xenophobia" has been a theme, but so has "Annie sees the Forest as much less dangerous than it is, and does stupid things because of that" (citation: Chapter 39). I do hope for a happy ending, and I hope that the Court and Forest reconcile...but I think there will be significant difficulties beforehand. I thought Tom said the comic would not include resolution of the divide between the Forest and the Court, but I can't find it in the Formspring database. I am limiting my expectations to improved relations and the foundation for further improvements in the future.
|
|
|
Post by fwip on Jul 28, 2016 3:30:06 GMT
If they solve the problem after having to resort to violence, I will still be thrilled. Violence is fun! there are plenty of comics where problems are solved with violence, and GK is one of the exceptions. Fair enough. I guess part of the reason "crash course" was so awesome is because Annie *never does that*. If she were a pyromaniac we would be bored of violence by now, but because she's normally a pretty levelheaded, well-rounded character, it was completely badass.
|
|
|
Post by speedwell on Jul 28, 2016 5:39:38 GMT
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the notion that they could essentially give the frighteningly and painstakingly abused, broken spirit of supernatural despair and rage what amounts to a coffee break in a rolegaming session. Not, of course, that I'm complaining.
I do think that they're riding a tiger here and that they'd better know what they're all going to do when they have to drop the simulation.
|
|
|
Post by Daedalus on Jul 28, 2016 6:29:58 GMT
( todd: you somewhat misquoted me due to bad BBcode, btw.)
|
|
|
Post by warrl on Jul 28, 2016 7:35:24 GMT
This feels like the sort of plan a D&D group would come up with, which means nothing could go wrong. A D&D group would have a DM to guarantee that something goes wrong. (That is the DM's job, isn't it?)
|
|
|
Post by philman on Jul 28, 2016 7:45:25 GMT
There will be plenty of violence after Jeanne is gone and the more violent forest monsters start attacking/infiltrating the Court. I honestly think I'd give up on the comic if the ever popular fan speculation that 'freeing Jeanne from eternal slavery and stopping her from ruthlessly murdering every innocent forest dweller who happened to come near to her is a bad thing and Annie is wrong for trying it' is supported by the comic. It's so against everything the comic has stood for. 'Getting along with our neighbours, no that can't happen, the only way there can be peace between us if we enslave an innocnet and use her as a landmine to stop anyone getting close to us'. 'Murder is way better than negotiation'. I think the comic has dealt with many complex issues, so the issue of people doing horrible things (such as trapping Jeanne) for "good" reasons (to keep themselves safe), would be a perfectly reasonable one to explore.
|
|
gary
Full Member
Posts: 121
|
Post by gary on Jul 28, 2016 8:36:32 GMT
I honestly think I'd give up on the comic if the ever popular fan speculation that 'freeing Jeanne from eternal slavery and stopping her from ruthlessly murdering every innocent forest dweller who happened to come near to her is a bad thing and Annie is wrong for trying it' is supported by the comic. It's so against everything the comic has stood for. 'Getting along with our neighbours, no that can't happen, the only way there can be peace between us if we enslave an innocnet and use her as a landmine to stop anyone getting close to us'. 'Murder is way better than negotiation'. gary , I didn't say that I thought it was right or necessary for Jeanne to stay trapped. You quoted a lot of things, none of which I recall seeing anyone say in this forum. They weren't quotes. But there have been literally hundreds of people here and elsewhere opining that freeing jeanne is a mistake, that it will lead to a forest invasion, that annie is misguided for wanting to do it (there was a comic where smitty asked if they were right to do it and a lot of people thought he was in the right). There's also been huge ammounts of speculation that Jeanne will have to be replaced by one of our heroines because her role is so vital. It's just built up to a point of annoyance for me that I get irritated by any implication that she's vital to peace. I mean besides anything else Jeanne has killed thousands of people, the world will be by definition more peaceful without her there killing things. Yes consequences for actions. But well Coyote is mainly restrained by his promise not to attack the court rather than Jeanne, the forest-court relationships is much better than it was in the past. There's no real reason for it be break out in huge violence now beyond just 'ha, ha, that's what you get for trying to walk away from omelas, suckers, teaches you for trying to be good'.
|
|
|
Post by todd on Jul 28, 2016 12:41:33 GMT
( todd: you somewhat misquoted me due to bad BBcode, btw.) Sorry.
|
|
|
Post by todd on Jul 28, 2016 12:49:03 GMT
Yes consequences for actions. But well Coyote is mainly restrained by his promise not to attack the court rather than Jeanne, the forest-court relationships is much better than it was in the past. There's no real reason for it be break out in huge violence now beyond just 'ha, ha, that's what you get for trying to walk away from omelas, suckers, teaches you for trying to be good'. While I don't trust Coyote, I think he'd do whatever he can to stop the Court and the Forest from going to war with each other simply because, if your toys all break each other, you've nothing left to play with. And I don't think anyone on either side really wants war (at most, maybe finding some way to dispose of the other community without any harm or cost to themselves in one quick blow). Certainly not the everyday population in either Court or Wood. On the Wood side, probably Ysengrin's army of disgruntled monster-like beings, but they can be held in check (and they're just one small part of the forest-folk).
|
|
|
Post by dramastix on Jul 28, 2016 16:31:14 GMT
But there have been literally hundreds of people here and elsewhere opining that freeing jeanne is a mistake, that it will lead to a forest invasion, that annie is misguided for wanting to do it (there was a comic where smitty asked if they were right to do it and a lot of people thought he was in the right). There's also been huge ammounts of speculation that Jeanne will have to be replaced by one of our heroines because her role is so vital. It's just built up to a point of annoyance for me that I get irritated by any implication that she's vital to peace. I mean besides anything else Jeanne has killed thousands of people, the world will be by definition more peaceful without her there killing things. Yes consequences for actions. But well Coyote is mainly restrained by his promise not to attack the court rather than Jeanne, the forest-court relationships is much better than it was in the past. There's no real reason for it be break out in huge violence now beyond just 'ha, ha, that's what you get for trying to walk away from omelas, suckers, teaches you for trying to be good'. I'm with you in the sense that it's right to try to relieve Jeanne of her suffering, but I think honestly the more likely scenario, rather than the forest invading, is that the court is going to react to the loss of what they saw as their main protection and go after the forest. Which I realise still puts Jeanne's release into the "Be careful what you wish for" category, but that's in line with how Tom has dealt with moral issues in the past (not to mention all the ominous signs coming from the robot cult), and I don't think it precludes an eventual resolution where the court and forest can become amicable again. I'm of the mind that releasing Jeanne into the ether is going to kick off what will eventually be the climax of the series, hopefully involving the full unveiling of the Angel.
|
|
|
Post by Daedalus on Jul 28, 2016 16:58:42 GMT
But there have been literally hundreds of people here and elsewhere opining that freeing jeanne is a mistake, that it will lead to a forest invasion, that annie is misguided for wanting to do it (there was a comic where smitty asked if they were right to do it and a lot of people thought he was in the right). There's also been huge ammounts of speculation that Jeanne will have to be replaced by one of our heroines because her role is so vital. It's just built up to a point of annoyance for me that I get irritated by any implication that she's vital to peace. I mean besides anything else Jeanne has killed thousands of people, the world will be by definition more peaceful without her there killing things. Yes consequences for actions. But well Coyote is mainly restrained by his promise not to attack the court rather than Jeanne, the forest-court relationships is much better than it was in the past. There's no real reason for it be break out in huge violence now beyond just 'ha, ha, that's what you get for trying to walk away from omelas, suckers, teaches you for trying to be good'. I'm with you in the sense that it's right to try to relieve Jeanne of her suffering, but I think honestly the more likely scenario, rather than the forest invading, is that the court is going to react to the loss of what they saw as their main protection and go after the forest. Which I realise still puts Jeanne's release into the "Be careful what you wish for" category, but that's in line with how Tom has dealt with moral issues in the past (not to mention all the ominous signs coming from the robot cult), and I don't think it precludes an eventual resolution where the court and forest can become amicable again. I'm of the mind that releasing Jeanne into the ether is going to kick off what will eventually be the climax of the series, hopefully involving the full unveiling of the Angel. The question is whether the leadership of the Court even knows about Jeanne. They have an all-seeing Orwellian vibe going on, but Sir Young said they would bury all the evidence of their murder of Jeanne. Given that Annie hasn't informed them of Jeanne, and the Tick-Tocks aren't spying for the Court...I always got the feeling that the Court forgot about Jeanne.
|
|
|
Post by dramastix on Jul 28, 2016 17:03:41 GMT
I'm with you in the sense that it's right to try to relieve Jeanne of her suffering, but I think honestly the more likely scenario, rather than the forest invading, is that the court is going to react to the loss of what they saw as their main protection and go after the forest. Which I realise still puts Jeanne's release into the "Be careful what you wish for" category, but that's in line with how Tom has dealt with moral issues in the past (not to mention all the ominous signs coming from the robot cult), and I don't think it precludes an eventual resolution where the court and forest can become amicable again. I'm of the mind that releasing Jeanne into the ether is going to kick off what will eventually be the climax of the series, hopefully involving the full unveiling of the Angel. The question is whether the leadership of the Court even knows about Jeanne. They have an all-seeing Orwellian vibe going on, but Sir Young said they would bury all the evidence of their murder of Jeanne. Given that Annie hasn't informed them of Jeanne, and the Tick-Tocks aren't spying for the Court...I always got the feeling that the Court forgot about Jeanne. Oh, I see that. I always assumed that meant the Court forgot about Jeanne's origins, but didn't necessarily forget that there was a creature down there ready to make a filet anything that made the mistake of showing up. Regardless, I'm still putting my money on the Court acting first.
|
|
|
Post by atteSmythe on Jul 28, 2016 17:06:02 GMT
This feels like the sort of plan a D&D group would come up with, which means nothing could go wrong. A D&D group would have a DM to guarantee that something goes wrong. (That is the DM's job, isn't it?) Maybe it's just the groups I've been in, but my DMs have, after the campaign, always expressed surprise that any of the plans we came up with could have ever been considered good ideas in the first place.
|
|
gary
Full Member
Posts: 121
|
Post by gary on Jul 28, 2016 21:11:42 GMT
I always got the feeling that the Court forgot about Jeanne. Yeah, I agree with that. I've always viewed her as an abandoned land mine, a relic of the situation before the mediums and the people exchanges and the bridge and the current court-forest relationship, rather than an actvie part of the current court's plans.
|
|
|
Post by TBeholder on Jul 29, 2016 6:47:08 GMT
That's just fairies painting some pretty pictures (invisible to naked eye), Purple didn't compel everyone in sight to believe this stuff is real. If they solve this problem without having to resort to violence, I will be thrilled. If they solve the problem after having to resort to violence, I will still be thrilled. Violence is fun! The problem is that usually it either quickly ends or quickly becomes ridiculous.
|
|
|
Post by warrl on Jul 30, 2016 1:34:33 GMT
A D&D group would have a DM to guarantee that something goes wrong. (That is the DM's job, isn't it?) Maybe it's just the groups I've been in, but my DMs have, after the campaign, always expressed surprise that any of the plans we came up with could have ever been considered good ideas in the first place. Well, sometimes it's a really easy job. (Other aspects of being the DM may become more difficult in consequence. You have ideas on how to deal with the four most obvious, most likely approaches to the situation you create... and the players pursue approach #187...)
|
|
|
Post by Jelly Jellybean on Jul 30, 2016 13:18:54 GMT
Maybe it's just the groups I've been in, but my DMs have, after the campaign, always expressed surprise that any of the plans we came up with could have ever been considered good ideas in the first place. Well, sometimes it's a really easy job. (Other aspects of being the DM may become more difficult in consequence. You have ideas on how to deal with the four most obvious, most likely approaches to the situation you create... and the players pursue approach #187...) I played in a party that went through a cursed/haunted house scenario. The party only had 24 hours from the time it entered the property to break free of its curse or be trapped forever, but we didn't pick up on the time limit so we had no sense of urgency. We finished the scenario, but we didn't know about the time limit until afterward when the DM could finally ask us what the heck were we thinking. EDIT: I guess I shouldn't have pulled this thread further off topic, but it's making me nostalgic.
|
|
|
Post by noone3 on Aug 1, 2016 7:45:21 GMT
This feels like the sort of plan a D&D group would come up with, which means nothing could go wrong. And for those unfamiliar with pen and paper RPG, by "nothing could go wrong" he obviously means that at some time the village will inevitably be set on fire.
|
|