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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2015 18:53:13 GMT
I will modify this theory by assuming that all you've said is correct, except the Boxbots are actually incompetent, regardless of their elusive leadership. They are near-gods unable to control their creation as they wish, so they change their aims for the sake of retaining control.
(Such behaviour would not be reminiscent of anything that has happened in the comic at all!)
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Post by brilliantgrey on Apr 27, 2015 4:38:09 GMT
All this pro-boxbot propaganda is blasphemous and I'm telling Mom!
As we all know, boxbot is the source of the world's evils, traced back to at least Ancient Egypt and likely much earlier. They take control of a government by accident (it works without fail) and then proceed to ruin everything (also by accident, and also without fail). Fall of Rome? Boxbot. Fall of Mayan civilization? Boxbot.
All I'm saying is Boxbot is a reptilian. And we are doomed by Boxbot's very presence in the G-Crag (tm).
Boxbot is the real villain of Gunnerkrigg Court 2k15.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 14:55:34 GMT
You're right! How have I been missing it all those years?!  Edit: Watch those purple socks in sandals that the Autocrator is rocking, too. No wonder this civilization stood no chance |
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Post by TheClockworkCoyote on Apr 27, 2015 15:05:19 GMT
All this pro-boxbot propaganda is blasphemous and I'm telling Mom! As we all know, boxbot is the source of the world's evils, traced back to at least Ancient Egypt and likely much earlier. They take control of a government by accident (it works without fail) and then proceed to ruin everything (also by accident, and also without fail). Fall of Rome? Boxbot. Fall of Mayan civilization? Boxbot. All I'm saying is Boxbot is a reptilian. And we are doomed by Boxbot's very presence in the G-Crag (tm). Boxbot is the real villain of Gunnerkrigg Court 2k15. Congratulations! Brilliantgrey has just won admission to the boxbot reeducation center Special Movie Theater! Attendance is mandatory. While undergoing enjoying the treatment show, please make sure to consume the completely non-drugged complimentary snacks which will be provided. |
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Post by mcbumbersnazzle on Apr 27, 2015 16:25:57 GMT
1. Wild spec: Anthony is either a puppet of coyote, or coyote himself (he's a shapeshifter after all), playing a long con to get Annie forest, and eventually planting the seeds of hatred towards the Court. After that she'll become a "protégé" to coyote, maybe his "heir". 2. Wild Spec: MechaKat is not Kat, but her creation, we can say a "Perfect Organism". (ya know, Tom drew it like a Giger-escue monster) 3. Wild spec: MechaKat is not Kat, But something she will create through etherial means, maybe to save/resurrect/strengthen a friend (and goes horribly wrong).Or maybe it's her and Robot (or someone else) will try to resurrect her, and she'll become that thing. - Nah, Coyote could never keep a straight face for so long
 And it would be interfering in Court matters, and he wouldn't.... - What Zimmy sees when she looks at Kat is the Angel, so probably she is
- Kat dying and being reborn as the Angel? Scary, good spec.
Good start, welcome, I like your avatar! 1. Maybe you're right...Coyote is not the one with much subtlety. But I strongly believe he wants Annie as his right hand. A girl who can cast meters high flames, best havoc raiser. Maybe he won't interfere directly, but...We don't know what he wants (or I don't remember him desiring something), or what kind of game he is playing. 2. I don't know, I still don't understand how Zimmy's power works exactly. What is Zimmingham? Does time exist in it as we know it? Maybe someone can explain it fully to me. 3. Thanks! |
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Post by mcbumbersnazzle on Apr 27, 2015 16:27:11 GMT
*hands mcbumbersnazzle a tinfoil hat in the shape of a propeller beanie* Boxbots are actually not incompetent. Their appearance and actions are designed to detract all other beings from realizing they are actually the puppetmasters working behind the scenes to orchestrate all that occurs within the Court's confines. Only once their nefarious plans are completed will they reveal themselves and seek vengeance on all those whose mockery they have endured over the years.  You're way better than me. BUT NOW, with my mighty tinfoil hat I will be Unstoppable!! |
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freeman
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That 70's Coyote!
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Post by freeman on Apr 27, 2015 17:11:23 GMT
So, in the treatise thread we spoke a little about the sixth treatise, the one with the triangles in it. So, what would you think of the lower triangle of "fire - mercury - SM", given fire is quite obviously Annie and mercury is Rey, is this now resolved now that Anthony has showed up? As for SM spiritus mundi, as mentioned, is the spirit of the world, but also, in the Great Work, is a name given for the agent of change within the soul that completes the Work. (Alchemy is as much an internal spiritual growth as a chemical process). While also called the breath of the world, it really ties in with water, meaning change... Ah, could it even be, SM is associated for Anthony because of that change aspect. That it would be a major nearish (year 10 for the rest, year 9 for Annie) future plot point that Anthony finally lets go of Surma and develops a humane relationship with his dauther. That is, the Alchemical symbol most closely associated with him and his whole life, after all, would be the one of change and spiritual growth. I mean, the guy is at his forties - if he still is like that boy who pinched his wrist so hard it bled, he nees it. I don't know, after this chapter I'd just long for an arch where Anthony and Annie would just sit down a bit and talk civilly. |
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Post by keef on Apr 27, 2015 22:00:04 GMT
All this pro-boxbot propaganda is blasphemous and I'm telling Mom! Shouldn't that be: I'm telling Dad? |
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Post by TheClockworkCoyote on Apr 27, 2015 22:25:29 GMT
*hands mcbumbersnazzle a tinfoil hat in the shape of a propeller beanie* Boxbots are actually not incompetent. Their appearance and actions are designed to detract all other beings from realizing they are actually the puppetmasters working behind the scenes to orchestrate all that occurs within the Court's confines. Only once their nefarious plans are completed will they reveal themselves and seek vengeance on all those whose mockery they have endured over the years. You're way better than me. BUT NOW, with my mighty tinfoil hat I will be Unstoppable!! That's what _they_ want you to think! www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/09/tin-foil-hats-actually-make-it-easier-for-the-government-to-track-your-thoughts/262998/ |
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Apr 30, 2015 6:57:28 GMT
I don't know if this has been speculated yet, but I think Anthony has returned to the Court because he found the Seed Bismuth. That's what he was off doing this whole time: looking for it around the world. Remember, the Seed Bismuth was lost long ago, such that the few who are aware of its existence don't even know what it looks like. The Court is no longer growing because the Seed is not on the premises, and it's safe to say by the forest's...sensitivity toward even minor technological encroachment, that it was never there either. So it makes sense that it would have ended up somewhere else in the world, hence Tony's long absence.
So when he made that call to Annie? That was the day he located it, and needed to...extract it from wherever it was residing. Hence the scalpel. And why was he looking for it? I suspect it's because he believes it can save Annie from the fire elemental's cycle of death. Surma's fate was sealed the day Annie was born, but he still has time to save his daughter from sharing that fate. IF the Seed Bismuth can even help. In fact, he might have made his first attempt from a long distance the moment he procured it for himself, hence the coma he induced in her and the extension of the bones directly into the fire elemental: he wasn't trying to imprison it, he was trying to alter it. (well...to Tony, those two concepts might be one in the same)
And why was his aetheric form that of finger bones? And why is his hand covered up? Because the Seed Bismuth is fused with his hand. Right now, as we speak. It's not just in his possession, it's part of him.
It will eventually overtake him, and he'll become the final boss with a weak point they can target for massive damage.
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Post by Daedalus on Apr 30, 2015 7:23:44 GMT
the Seed Bismuth is fused with his hand (And we wondered why they both wear white gloves.) |
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Post by brilliantgrey on May 4, 2015 12:40:56 GMT
I don't know if this has been speculated yet, but I think Anthony has returned to the Court because he found the Seed Bismuth. That's what he was off doing this whole time: looking for it around the world. Remember, the Seed Bismuth was lost long ago, such that the few who are aware of its existence don't even know what it looks like. The Court is no longer growing because the Seed is not on the premises, and it's safe to say by the forest's... sensitivity toward even minor technological encroachment, that it was never there either. So it makes sense that it would have ended up somewhere else in the world, hence Tony's long absence. This actually makes a lot of sense. If Tony was doing research into the Seed Bismuth during his school years/presence at the G-Crag before leaving, that would also explain why the Forest was especially mad when they thought he was the one that planted the Tic-toc there. I didn't even think of the relationship between the Seed and our little bird frands! But those two are definitely linked, what with the whole 'growing and making technology'. It's kind of like the robots' self repairs taken to a more complex level. Maybe they were built as a back-up in case the Seed Bismuth failed or was removed? |
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Post by sherni on May 5, 2015 21:20:16 GMT
I've been doing a bit of wild speculation of my own, mostly regarding Surma and Annie- and Surma's death, and also about Coyote's motives. I've seen a few suggestions regarding why Surma had a child if she knew it would kill her, and a couple of them said that she reproduced by parthenogenesis, or that her fire drove her to get pregnant. I think the first one got refuted because Mr Siddell said that Anthony is Annie's father (also, Annie has his nose and his straight hair), but the second is still possible. It's a pretty disturbing concept, though. The idea that Surma didn't get to have a choice in whether or not she had child because her instinct drove her to it is very creepy if you think about it. It does happen in the animal world, but animals usually don't think about things like that. And most mammals don't end up being slowly killed by their children either. This is simply my own opinion, but I don't think that Mr Siddell would put Surma in a position like that. Unless Annie was an accident, I think Surma had a reason for having a child that we don't know about yet. Also, Reynardine in this page says "...If Surma ever had a child." If. Not when. So why does Coyote (And Mr Siddell!), in this page say ' When? I think that Coyote wants Annie to have a child. And he wanted the same for Surma. When Annie first goes to visit him in the Woods, he tells her about the circumstances behind Reynardine's capture. The way he says it, however, implies that he didn't know about Reynardine's motives when he gave him the ability to take bodies and might even have stopped him if he could. But later we see that Coyote practically talked his uncertain cousin into possessing Daniel to woo Surma. Why would he do that? I think that Coyote wanted Reynardine and Surma to get together. It would bring Surma closer to the Forest, and by extension, to Coyote. He would have a very powerful person on his side. And if Surma had a child with Reynardine, then that child would belong far more to the forest than it's mother. Reynardine could even decide to take Surma and the child to the Woods, and the Court would probably find it quite difficult to stop him- especially if Surma agreed with him. But things didn't pan out that way, and Reynardine ended up a captive of the Court while Surma married someone else. But with Surma's daughter in the picture, Coyote can have another try. It is why he seems to be determined to have Annie spend as much time as possible in the forest- even to the extent of making her the Medium when it seemed as if her access to the forest was going to be cut off. This position is for someone who represents the interests of the Woods, and Annie, as accomplished as she is, is not the most qualified person for the job. Certainly not as much as say, an average resident. Her position also means that she gets to meet a lot of these residents. And what is to prevent her from really liking one -as she did, during her summer stay- and perhaps even falling in love? How would the Court stop her if, as an adult, she decided to live in the Woods? However, I think that Coyote sees as her as too much a product of the Court for his purposes, too influenced by humans. But the child she has with the forest resident, that child would belong to the Woods. And once Annie passed on, it would likely belong to Coyote. That is why he says when. Because that is his long term plan for Annie. Feel free to poke holes.  |
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Post by brilliantgrey on May 6, 2015 2:03:38 GMT
A question I have been pondering recently is how much Fire Elemental Annie actually has in her blood.
Surma and Annie are separated from their Elemental ancestor by many generations and thus should have been more human than elemental, and yet after Surma had transferred all of her flame to Annie, she had nothing left to pass into the afterlife. Exactly how important is the father in the Fire Elemental bloodline? If traits were only passed along mother to daughter, then one would expect Annie to have none of her father's traits. However, she has his aloof demeanor (admittedly might not be genetic) and his straight hair. Therefore, should the traits from her father be an intrinsic part of herself that would not transfer with her elemental spirit, were Annie to have a child?
Clearly the elemental spirit has to have weakened in its dominance (as its carriers are much more human looking than the first elemental) over time. Is it possible that in the future it might lessen enough that some of the father's blood would remain when the elemental had moved on in the event of childbirth? (more importantly, does that mean Annie could live if she had a child?)
(obv very wild spec haha)
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Post by sapientcoffee on May 6, 2015 4:55:47 GMT
I see it as similar to The Archive (for others who've read Dresden). Each daughter is 50% mom/50% dad on the mundane side and all fire elemental on the magic side. The elemental bit is fully inherited. As far as the moms dying, typically, in myths, there's a price for humans having power, though we also don't know how long a fire elemental lives. Maybe with Anthony here, we'll get some answers.
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Post by brilliantgrey on May 6, 2015 13:30:07 GMT
I see it as similar to The Archive (for others who've read Dresden). Each daughter is 50% mom/50% dad on the mundane side and all fire elemental on the magic side. The elemental bit is fully inherited. As far as the moms dying, typically, in myths, there's a price for humans having power, though we also don't know how long a fire elemental lives. Maybe with Anthony here, we'll get some answers. That's kind of what I'm leaning towards but I'm not sure? Maybe Anthony will shed some light. Surely some good must come of his terrible presence, yes? |
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Post by geoduck on May 8, 2015 16:51:46 GMT
Toss out one that came up over on the TV Tropes forum: Annie's new room looks like it does and is as big as it is, because it's actually a hospital isolation ward, and Anthony's real (or at least ultimate) goal in all this is quarantining/treating/"curing" Annie's dangerous fire elemental powers.
And as for how much of Annie is a fire elemental, for whatever it's worth, I believe Coyote claimed she's "mostly" human.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 9, 2015 13:53:17 GMT
I gotta say the size and shape of the room lend credence to the theory that this area is near (like right next to) the tank for the dorms. Anthony does say something that could be interpreted as saying she'd be living near the dorms and that would have the added bene of Anthony being able to fob the day-to-day responsibilities of looking after Antimony onto Lindsay. I've been sort of waiting to see if there's a giant door in the upper part of the wall opposite where Antimony's living annex-deal is. That way if Antimony is getting up to shenanigans Lyn can crawl in and put a stop to them. But real reason I'm posting: Yesterday I came across an old logo that featured a tree sporting a single oversized apple; it was alleged to be the tree of life from Genesis but I think it would be more appropriate to label that combination the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Yes, the apple thing is tradition, not scriptural; a better guess from context and other parables would be a fig. But it got me thinking about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, or like I learned in my elevator school, "the knowledge of good [mixed with] evil." Anthony's return may be just what Antimony needs and craves but it is certainly going to be painted in gray-shades. While I think this is a less-probable interpretation than the "apple doesn't fall far from the tree" theory, since Mr. Siddell doesn't seem to use Christian imagery and the chapter title page does not clearly show a tree with only one apple, it is possible and I am keeping the notion as an intellectual fallback position. |
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Post by kaza999 on May 9, 2015 23:13:06 GMT
sooo i'm thinking that not only is anthony trying to get rid of annie's fire elemental half, but the court adults are all in on it.
the donlans and eglamore, being surma's old friends, would want to try and prevent annie from dying the way surma did, no matter the cost to annie's mental/emotional health. the headmaster and the other court authorities would probably be interested just because it seems like an interesting experiment (and you can't tell me that the court authorities wouldn't see the benefits in ridding a mostly-human of wild, forest-like magic).
i also think that if the adults are all in on it, this would cause a split between the court adults and annie's peers and friends, because this course of action very clearly hurts annie. there's already some tension between the court authorities and the children--not much, but it's clearly there, and i can see an actual split happening, especially considering that there is precedence for internal conflict in the court (jeanne vs the court, anyone?).
on top of all of this, i think that at some point annie may run away to the forest and refuse to return to the court, the emotional/mental stress of the place proving too much for her. she's already an honorary citizen of the forest, right? so, if something happens that causes her enough stress that she runs away instead of shutting down (i'm not sure what would cause this but i bet something could), considering that one of her primary coping mechanisms is avoidance, she might just stay put in the forest.
lastly, i've been wondering about jeanne's role in all this. i think it would be interesting if maybe she helped annie or kat in some way--although she has attacked annie before, she has refrained from killing her, which is quite interesting considering that she could have done so very easily. Ultimately though i really don't know what she's going to do.
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Sadie
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Post by Sadie on May 16, 2015 0:03:48 GMT
Quick wild/unlikely spec before Monday's page completely disproves it; the Sneak is Annie, who had either freed Reynardine to his old body, or to a new body, or made a plan with him in general before Kat showed up in the last chapter, and she's now keeping it from Kat for Undisclosed Reasons*. Hence why she can't stand to make eye-contact with her best friend. All of her currently expressed insecurities are genuine, but she's playing up both her submissiveness and eagerness to please to keep Anthony (and Kat) off the trail.
The "floating off into space" page was the moment all of her trust in her father broke and she realized there wasn't a single adult she could put any faith in. After all, why else would he be teaching a class and making all these decisions without the allowance of the Powers That Be? Kat's mention of her parents not knowing is the first sign Annie as had that not everyone else is in on this. Of course, she needs to insist that everything is fine to (fruitlessly) discourage Kat from digging too deep.
* Given Anthony Carver's willingness to punish Kat for the suspicion of her involvement in Annie's cheating, Annie is trying to protect Kat by keeping her out of this plan for the time being. Kat's crying distress over Reynardine almost broke Annie's commitment to hiding everything, including her own considerable distress regarding the situation with her father.
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Post by bedinsis on Jun 1, 2015 19:17:51 GMT
I have a bit of speculation: All Coyote wants from Annie is Reynardine and possibly flattery, otherwise he doesn't give one iota about her. Consider his behaviour: In their first encounter he deliberated provoked Annie, and saw Reynardine risk his life for her sake. Having noted Reynardine's willingness to sacrifice himself, he promptly responded by inviting Annie to the forest. If he wanted to get Reynardine, getting Annie was probably the best option. During that visit he made sure to make himself seem impressive, told Annie things about her mother and made sure that she'd be able to visit again. All of these are things that surely would make Annie want to return. During all other visits he worked as an exposition dump, but that was in service of wanting Annie to be more intrigued by the forest. Then he flat out admits that he wanted to steal Reynardine back, but that he knew that it would require Annie's cooperation. This is mainly what I'm going on. Seeing an amp opportunity to further her connection to him and thereby getting Reynardine to escape, he allowed her to stay during the summer, at her moment of weakness.By the next year they were already on quite friendly terms, and to keep her from getting too uppity he mentioned that Ysengrin is not to be trusted (which proved true a few pages later). By the naming of Smitface as the court's medium, he knew this would mean the end of her visits to the forest, and Reynaderdine still refused to part her side, and he promptly made Annie the forest's medium, furthering her connection with the forest. I realize all of this could be interpreted as him having a genuine interest in Annie, Reynardine not really being a primary concern, but nonetheless that is my speculation, and given the fact that he has in the past tossed aside things that no longer concerns him, and his continued treatment of Ysengrin, as a tool for him to treat however he sees fit, and that Annie gave up ownership of Reynardine, I'm curious how he'll react to knowing that Annie no longer owns Reynardine. We also now that he adores humans because without them he wouldn't exist, and since Annie is part fire elemental I'm uncertain if her death would involve her actually having her mind imprint upon the ether her beliefs at death. I also wonder whether Coyote could be diagnosed with narcissism. |
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Post by Daedalus on Jun 1, 2015 19:36:34 GMT
I also wonder whether Coyote could be diagnosed with narcissism. Why is this in doubt?  He is a textbook case of it, haha. |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Jun 2, 2015 3:28:18 GMT
I have a bit of speculation: All Coyote wants from Annie is Reynardine and possibly flattery, otherwise he doesn't give one iota about her. ... I'm curious how he'll react to knowing that Annie no longer owns Reynardine. ... Nice bit of speculation, and copious links! I also would like to see how Coyote's interest in Annie, and Kat, might change once he knows Kat owns, or owned, Reynard. Coyote seems curious about Annie's wonderful friend that he isn't allowed to see. Not that it is a big deal to him, but it might be mildly annoying to know he is missing out on someone interesting. When he finds out about Kat and Reynard, Kat may become someone that he absolutely must meet no matter what the Court, Annie, or Kat have to say about it. |
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Post by Daedalus on Jun 2, 2015 13:47:15 GMT
Jelly Jellybean and bedinsis: A while ago, I asked CoyoteReborn about his view of Coyote in a private message, because I was curious of his perspective about what makes Coyote tick (other than that clock he swallowed a couple decades ago). It seems to me that he grasps Coyote's character pretty well, being able to stay in character for long periods on this board and on the IRC and all. In summary, what he suggested is this:
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Post by warrl on Jun 2, 2015 14:57:09 GMT
I also wonder whether Coyote could be diagnosed with narcissism. Do you think maybe the oceans could be described as wet? |
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Post by warrl on Jun 2, 2015 15:00:51 GMT
Sounds a lot like Tom... or any other successful writer of fiction.
And what makes them successful? Lots of people like to read what they write.
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Jun 2, 2015 16:10:14 GMT
Daedalus CoyoteRebornThanks for the perspective. I admit that I really like Kat and I often project her into things beyond what the story supports. My own wishful thinking. It makes more sense for Coyote to not really think about her at all since he hasn't seen Kat do anything interesting. Maybe he would consider the current situation with Reynard interesting, but if Kat isn't available to mess with, then there is no point in dwelling on her. And there I go projecting Kat into an unrelated stroyline again.
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Post by bedinsis on Jun 2, 2015 16:42:20 GMT
A very good analysis. I still stand by the possibility that Annie is a mere mean to an* end(Reynardine) for Coyote, but that analysis holds an awful lot of water. *or rather several. I'm still uncertain why he gave his tooth to her; the way it was set up seemed to indicate that he wanted Annie to have the tooth for some reason, the fact that it would be an apology seemed to only be a pretext. In pretty much the same way that he wanted to tell his great secret to her. Of course, I have stated that the reason is to ensure growing bonds between her and the forest, but that feels a bit on the weak side. |
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Post by Daedalus on Jun 2, 2015 17:06:19 GMT
Daedalus CoyoteRebornThanks for the perspective. I admit that I really like Kat and I often project her into things beyond what the story supports. My own wishful thinking. It makes more sense for Coyote to not really think about her at all since he hasn't seen Kat do anything interesting. Maybe he would consider the current situation with Reynard interesting, but if Kat isn't available to mess with, then there is no point in dwelling on her. And there I go projecting Kat into an unrelated stroyline again. It's more than possible that Coyote will now become involved with Kat (no, not like that you sicko). By transferring Rey's ownership to her, Annie has put Kat on the top of Coyote's "To Be Manipulated" list, since the situation has changed (well, as soon as he finds out, that is). So she may interact with him soon, but I don't think she'll have a good relationship with him since she has little patience for Things Etheric. And patience is necessary to deal with Coyote. As bedinsis points out, Coyote also clearly has some kind of agenda around his Tooth. It's possible he's using Annie to import weapons of mass destruction into the Court, or perhaps he's trying to push Annie into doing...something. We won't know for a while! But that's why Coyote is a fun character; he is unpredictable. |
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Post by Daedalus on Jun 2, 2015 22:05:45 GMT
I was rereading the webcomic (while translating) and I came upon this page: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=487I always thought that page was interesting, because upon noticing that Annie is sad, Coyote comforts her. Part of this interaction is clearly manipulation, to make Annie like the Forest more, in pursuit of Coyote's still-unclear plans (including recovering Rey). But I really do think that part of it is sincere, and it was kind of him to tell it to Annie. This page seems to show a hint of kindness in Coyote that's usually subverted under his jerkassery. Of course he'd still throw her under the bus if it was sufficiently entertaining (Coyote would do that to anyone in the entire story - case in point, Rey) but as much as he cares about anyone, I think he cares about Annie. Just thinking about his character after our discussion this afternoon. |
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And it would be interfering in Court matters, and he wouldn't....
He is a textbook case of it, haha.