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Post by Nepycros on Aug 19, 2015 7:00:08 GMT
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Post by Chancellor on Aug 19, 2015 7:01:35 GMT
Ungulate-Thing and his band of Jolly-Jokers confirmed as massive dicks.
So here's getting to crunch time, I think. Now we need to see how he's interpreted the Zimmy punch and just what he did after Divine.
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Post by gunnerwf on Aug 19, 2015 7:02:21 GMT
so he knows it was antimony he hurt.
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Post by OrzBrain on Aug 19, 2015 7:03:38 GMT
Well, there's only so much truth to go around, y'know. You can't waste it on just ANYONE. It's an economy, stupid.
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Post by gunnerwf on Aug 19, 2015 7:04:46 GMT
I still don't get why he is angry with Antimony?
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Post by avurai on Aug 19, 2015 7:06:55 GMT
"Ha ha" indeed, Carver.
No, but seriously, you need therapy and possibly medication.
Maybe another punch to the face for good measure, I don't know. My parents are the medical professionals, not me.
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Post by Chancellor on Aug 19, 2015 7:07:59 GMT
Is "was taken ill" grammarishly correct? I've never heard it said like that before.
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Post by Nepycros on Aug 19, 2015 7:08:10 GMT
"Ha ha" indeed, Carver. No, but seriously, you need therapy and possibly medication. Maybe another punch to the face for good measure, I don't know. My parents are the medical professionals, not me. Christ dude, he only found out that resurrecting his dead wife would harm his daughter AFTER the fact. Don't crucify the man. Look at what he's given up, and what he almost unknowingly gave up.
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Post by edzepp on Aug 19, 2015 7:09:22 GMT
I still don't get why he is angry with Antimony? We're getting close to that truth.
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Aug 19, 2015 7:09:27 GMT
Well, that was more than I expected he'd understand. Now the question is, Zimmy's fists of fury aside, what did he do after that incident? He didn't immediately run back to GK. I can't imagine he's listless - he's gotta have some kind of plan up his sleeve.
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Post by Chancellor on Aug 19, 2015 7:12:57 GMT
Well, that was more than I expected he'd understand. Now the question is, Zimmy's fists of fury aside, what did he do after that incident? He didn't immediately run back to GK. Dang, you're right. It was at least a year or even more, wasn't it? Where the hell was he THIS time? Now comes the part where Tony loses his marbles and drunkenly rants gibberish until he passes out and we learn nothing more this chapter.
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Post by aquamafia on Aug 19, 2015 7:13:31 GMT
So he knew. And it wasn't intentional from what it looks like.
It really seems like Anthony is consumed with self-loathing. His behavior now is just...self destructive. Like he can't bring himself to even function or care like a normal person after he's messed up so many things.
Because he knows. He knows he did Annie wrong by abandoning her for years in his desperate attempts to get Surma back. He knows that this botched procedure hurt her. He still blames himself for not curing Surma and having a child with her despite knowing the risks. And most of all, I think he knows that his recent actions are hurting Annie.
I think Anthony wants Annie to hate him as much as he hates himself. Because in his mind, he deserves to be despised.
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Post by philman on Aug 19, 2015 7:15:33 GMT
huh. So he DOES already know that his plan caused harm to Annie.
I am assuming his animosity towards Renard and banning Annie from the forest now stems from his anger at being tricked by these other etheric beings.
Still doesn't explain his attitude towards Annie though.
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Post by stef1987 on Aug 19, 2015 7:18:42 GMT
Is "was taken ill" grammarishly correct? I've never heard it said like that before. I don't think "grammarishly" is grammatically correct.
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Post by stef1987 on Aug 19, 2015 7:21:08 GMT
Now the question is, Zimmy's fists of fury aside, what did he do after that incident? He didn't immediately run back to GK. Dang, you're right. It was at least a year or even more, wasn't it? It's less than a year ago.
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Post by psybershadow on Aug 19, 2015 7:29:14 GMT
I feel okay again knowing that he knows. Kind of a dick but still. At least we don't have to go through miles of explanation.
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Post by Daedalus on Aug 19, 2015 7:29:16 GMT
Hm. Jury's still out on Anthony-morality-judging after this page (our favorite blood sport).
What in the world would these creatures gain out of manipulating him?
The results are that Annie was hurt, Tony lost his hand, an elemental was summoned, and...?
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Post by antiyonder on Aug 19, 2015 7:29:56 GMT
"Ha ha" indeed, Carver. No, but seriously, you need therapy and possibly medication. Maybe another punch to the face for good measure, I don't know. My parents are the medical professionals, not me. Christ dude, he only found out that resurrecting his dead wife would harm his daughter AFTER the fact. Don't crucify the man. Look at what he's given up, and what he almost unknowingly gave up. He lost his wife because he was convinced that he's the bomb diggity and that he can't be wrong. But rather than using that failure to grow as a person and take some humility pills, he acts without thinking on the basis that he's still awesome. And no evidence yet that he's grown for the better since the mistake.
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Post by psybershadow on Aug 19, 2015 7:31:02 GMT
WAIT GUYS. The page before this was one of the first times we've seen Tony show so much emotion. How much did he love her compared to that other girl that had a crush on him? Tony, how were you able to handle both the big things AND the little things?
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Post by Nepycros on Aug 19, 2015 7:31:25 GMT
Christ dude, he only found out that resurrecting his dead wife would harm his daughter AFTER the fact. Don't crucify the man. Look at what he's given up, and what he almost unknowingly gave up. He lost his wife because he was convinced that he's the bomb diggity and that he can't be wrong. But rather than using that failure to grow as a person and take some humility pills, he acts without thinking on the basis that he's still awesome. And no evidence yet that he's grown for the better since the mistake. Where the ever-loving hell are you getting this? What kind of humility do you prescribe to someone who blames himself for the death of his significant other?
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Trism
Full Member
Blink and you'll miss it.
Posts: 125
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Post by Trism on Aug 19, 2015 7:34:08 GMT
UM
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Post by Refugee on Aug 19, 2015 7:37:08 GMT
I think Anthony wants Annie to hate him as much as he hates himself. Because in his mind, he deserves to be despised. That makes a great deal of sense. At least from the diagnostic standpoint; I make no claim it makes moral sense, because it's still a despicable, selfish thing to do. Knowing this, will Annie conclude that she needs her elemental to " deal with" her Father, so she can swoop in to Anthony's place and confront him? === But why the trick? What was the purpose of the etherics in so cruelly hoaxing Anthony? Was there any purpose, beyond their own amusement?
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Post by mishyana on Aug 19, 2015 7:40:38 GMT
"Ha ha" indeed, Carver. No, but seriously, you need therapy and possibly medication. Maybe another punch to the face for good measure, I don't know. My parents are the medical professionals, not me. Christ dude, he only found out that resurrecting his dead wife would harm his daughter AFTER the fact. Don't crucify the man. Look at what he's given up, and what he almost unknowingly gave up. One would think the "resurrecting his dead wife" bit would be enough to give any even relatively sane person pause, well before finding out whether or not doing so would harm anyone, let alone his daughter. Tony's seems to be a single-minded, driven personality that's been pushed right over the edge and then hauled back up just so it can be pushed over again. He needs help in the worst sort of way.
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madragoran
Full Member
"If he trully does hurt you, I will rend the flesh from his bones on your word"
Posts: 232
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Post by madragoran on Aug 19, 2015 7:42:11 GMT
oh er.... So much facepalm. You are drunk Mr Carver. During all this exposition, how many pages is it - he has had ample space/ time to say he loves his kid and was worried and so on. All he has managed so far is to go "Ha ha! It was a trick". "Oh I am so stupid, I fell for them etherials! Oh silly me! I am so gullible!" which is one of my personal pet peeves in a person. I don't find it "sweet" or "endearing" and if it is not an affectation and it's for real (self loathing) I'd offer the phone of a good mental professional and just get out of the way. Just to add. So he knows everything about Annie apart from the bit that she is a psychopomp. btw in Greek mythology Hermes is the trickster god and also the god who guides dead souls to the after life. Something like a Coyote and Annie in one.
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Post by csj on Aug 19, 2015 7:44:07 GMT
Tom is economical with his plot progression.
:3
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Post by Nepycros on Aug 19, 2015 7:45:45 GMT
Christ dude, he only found out that resurrecting his dead wife would harm his daughter AFTER the fact. Don't crucify the man. Look at what he's given up, and what he almost unknowingly gave up. One would think the "resurrecting his dead wife" bit would be enough to give any even relatively sane person pause, well before finding out whether or not doing so would harm anyone, let alone his daughter. Tony's seems to be a single-minded, driven personality that's been pushed right over the edge and then hauled back up just so it can be pushed over again. He needs help in the worst sort of way. Oh yes, in a world where everything from ghost dogs to egyptian figureheads exist to guide souls into the afterlife, which is so vaguely explained yet hinted as being a very real phenomena, it's quite insane to even consider the prospect of contacting the dead again. Absolute silliness in every respect, despite the fact that his own daughter frequently offered cordial company to the undead.
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Post by Refugee on Aug 19, 2015 7:51:54 GMT
He lost his wife because he was convinced that he's the bomb diggity and that he can't be wrong. But rather than using that failure to grow as a person and take some humility pills, he acts without thinking on the basis that he's still awesome. And no evidence yet that he's grown for the better since the mistake. Where the ever-loving hell are you getting this? What kind of humility do you prescribe to someone who blames himself for the death of his significant other? To antiyonder: Anthony lost his wife because Surma's life was not his to save. No action he might have taken, that we know of, would have saved her, other than refusing to have a child with her. To nepycros: Self-hatred over something you cannot change is a twisted, highly sinful form of pride. If Anthony has in fact treated Annie so badly out of guilt, then his infallible bomb-diggity self image is indeed toxic. I am still prepared to find out, though, that his perceptions and actions were imposed on him by the etherics, possibly as an attack against a member of the Court; possibly against Annie or her elemental--either as a member of the Court or in her own right. Jones once told Annie that she put many people at risk when, in emotional turmoil over her Mother's deception of Renard, she ran off into the forest. Could it be that her little escapade was when the entities that attacked Anthony gained enough leverage to do so?
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Post by speedwell on Aug 19, 2015 7:53:53 GMT
A broken, insane, tormented man, acting out of what he sees as necessity, is still not excused if he emotionally abuses his child. We can feel pity for him, even sympathy, but his acts still need to be considered in light of how they affect other people. If the child understands and chooses to forgive, or if we agree with the brutal necessity, that's just another aspect to consider. We can excuse the destitute thief who steals a pack of diapers for her newborn because her partner stole her paycheck that week. But we can't not call it theft, even if the store owner declares it a gift afterward.
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Post by Nepycros on Aug 19, 2015 7:57:13 GMT
Where the ever-loving hell are you getting this? What kind of humility do you prescribe to someone who blames himself for the death of his significant other? To antiyonder: Anthony lost his wife because Surma's life was not his to save. No action he might have taken, that we know of, would have saved her, other than refusing to have a child with her. To nepycros: Self-hatred over something you cannot change is a twisted, highly sinful form of pride. If Anthony has in fact treated Annie so badly out of guilt, then his infallible bomb-diggity self image is indeed toxic. I am still prepared to find out, though, that his perceptions and actions were imposed on him by the etherics, possibly as an attack against a member of the Court; possibly against Annie or her elemental--either as a member of the Court or in her own right. Jones once told Annie that she put many people at risk when, in emotional turmoil over her Mother's deception of Renard, she ran off into the forest. Could it be that her little escapade was when the entities that attacked Anthony gained enough leverage to do so? No less toxic than any other character who brazenly attempts to fight against the flow of the world, often unknowingly putting others at risk. Annie, on more than one occasion, has endangered herself and her friends with little more than a shrug, and simply because everything turned out alright in the end she's praised as being a motivated character. When Tony, pushed with a devotion that defines him as a character, ends up stumbling and failing, he's heralded as the single most vilified being in GK, far worse than even Coyote in his prime act of dickishness. Honestly, this forum has a sect of people so convinced that Tony's acts are malicious and driven out of pure selfishness that they'll gladly make it so other characters are thrown under the bus to show how stupid he's been, without acknowledging the hypocrisy. There's no perfect character, no perfect action, and any semblance of character development is happening right goddamn now, because Tony's laying it all on the table that every attempt he's made up until this point has been a resounding FAILURE. If my own father felt he had even the slightest hope of bringing me back in the event of my untimely demise, and had the knowledge and experience of the Gunnerkrigg universe, to the extent he KNEW ABOUT PSYCHOPOMPS, I'm confident he would sacrifice an arm and a leg to even talk to me again. Would anyone really have the gall to chew out their own family for risking their own life and limb for something as fleeting as momentary contact? He didn't even know the consequences, yet people heap the blame onto him. If folks are going into this comic hating Tony, they'll come out hating him on the basis of pure hatred, not on the merits of considering what kind of character can be formed out of such hardships.
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Post by sakyru on Aug 19, 2015 8:01:15 GMT
I think Anthony wants Annie to hate him as much as he hates himself. Because in his mind, he deserves to be despised. That makes a great deal of sense. At least from the diagnostic standpoint; I make no claim it makes moral sense, because it's still a despicable, selfish thing to do. Knowing this, will Annie conclude that she needs her elemental to " deal with" her Father, so she can swoop in to Anthony's place and confront him? === But why the trick? What was the purpose of the etherics in so cruelly hoaxing Anthony? Was there any purpose, beyond their own amusement? I'm going to agree with this take on Anthony's psyche. I genuinely believe his screwups are a case of 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions' coupled with crippling social awkwardness already present in his youth. It's clear he's also someone who highly values technical or academic skill judging from his overall personality, and someone who would be uncomfortable with the ether due to mostly identifying with the world through factual logic; like his response to Don's reply about how he should know if he liked Brinnie. His behavioural issues and dependency on being competent have resulted in him acting very selfishly to try and stay afloat after losing his wife, because now he can't even reconcile with his self-hatred enough to speak to his daughter properly, and didn't reach out to the people who could have helped him. I think maybe from the forest creatures we have previously gathered that elementals are rarer nowadays? Going to have to check on the accuracy of this, but I'm sure getting your etheric paws on something as powerful as an elemental would be awesome.
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