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Post by csj on Jul 29, 2015 14:09:58 GMT
I like how etheric missiles are totally a thing, while limb replacement robotics is a no-go.
I for one would love to have a golem hand.
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Demonsul
New Member
Seven years a new member
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Post by Demonsul on Jul 29, 2015 15:25:42 GMT
He hasn't been in the court, remember. He hasn't had access to whatever hand-replacing tech they may or may not have until very recently. It's not proof that the court can't replace limbs when he literally just admitted that the reason he's back isn't to have his hand replaced.
In fact if we want to read into it, perhaps we ought to focus on why he's not trying to replace his hand with whatever crazytech the court can cook up now he's here. The theorized absence of the tech? A lack of trust in it? The court refusing to grant it to him? God forbid he's wearing his guilt or something?
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Post by keef on Jul 29, 2015 15:46:37 GMT
Tony standing in front of the desk hides Rey from our view. I hope we will see him through the blinker stone one of the next pages. He is probably already aware of Annie's spying. First time they see each other since she transferred ownership to Kat? Am I really the only one who isn't surprised by this page? No. Am I really the only one who can't stand this figure of speech? Maybe I misunderstand, not a native speaker and so on, but it looks like you say the rest of us can't read. I admit it is not unlikely you are smarter than me, but do you really need to rub it in. All these moral discussions going on in here; I'm just looking at the page thinking "Yes! Story time!" Yeah, that's the spirit! Spoiler contains mild swearing. I'd like to mention that the community here has unanimously formed a hate mob.. BS, and either you know that, or you don't read half of what is written here.
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Post by nero on Jul 29, 2015 16:42:32 GMT
Its just unsettling to see him smile. I would like to see how Anthony reacts when faced with the mistakes he made with Annie.
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Post by Daedalus on Jul 29, 2015 17:10:20 GMT
I like how etheric missiles are totally a thing, while limb replacement robotics is a no-go. I for one would love to have a golem hand. Interesting. You're absolutely correct about what Tony is saying, of course, but I had read it as "Haha, no, I'm not just returning because I'm unemployed." Tony gave no command, no suggestion, not even a hint that this was what he wanted; Annie chose to cut her hair herself. While it's true that it was Tony's presence that caused her emotional outburst, she herself chose to deal with it in the way we've seen. It is likely, although by no means certain, that Tony anticipated and intended her to do so. He had no reason to order her to cut away her elemental if he predicted that it would be her reaction to emotional duress. If he had ordered her to do it, I doubt she would have complied. That's why a manipulator is dangerous in real life: he or she can convince the manipulated person to make the decisions that the manipulator wants, and the manipulated person still believes that nothing wrong happened.
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Post by Trillium on Jul 29, 2015 17:10:22 GMT
Its just unsettling to see him smile. I would like to see how Anthony reacts when faced with the mistakes he made with Annie. I think we'll have to wait for the enlightenment about Tony and his relationship with Annie. Hopefully the story is going to go back and show us the history of Anthony and Surma. I've been waiting for that narrative. Maybe then we'll move on to why he is back at the Court and how he feels about Annie. On on a totally different track I'd like to know if any one has tried to communicate with the Fire Elemental. If it is a separate entity a lot of problems might be solved if everyone sat down and had a talk. Whatever Anthony was doing in Divine he was doing it without MS Fire or for that matter Annie's knowledge or consent. Because of Zimmy's intervention Tony was hit with a ferocious backlash. He is lucky to be alive.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2015 17:11:03 GMT
I think it'll be interesting to learn what he was actually doing to Annie when (apparently) Zimmy blew his arm off.
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Post by secondofnone on Jul 29, 2015 17:25:20 GMT
I'd like to mention that the community here has unanimously formed a hate mob for Tony... Uh, no. A sizable group, but by no means unanimous. I think the only thing I've seen posters agree on is that he's been a terrible dad. I don't agree that Tony is a terrible father. That said, I have a theory I came up with for a story I'm writing, that might apply here: Tony is behaving toward Annie the way he wishes his own father had behaved toward him, not realizing that he is repeating the same mistake his father made - giving his child what he needed as a child, rather than what she needs. So his behavior isn't out of any kind of malice, but stems from a genuine desire to be helpful. Unfortunately, like many parents, he doesn't realize that his efforts are misguided, because (again, like many parents) he sees Annie as a younger version of himself, rather than a different person with different needs and desires.
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Post by basser on Jul 29, 2015 17:31:46 GMT
Hahaha. Well I said a while ago (freaking, years ago now!?) that Tony is the Sherlock Holmes archetype. A personality I'm intimately familiar with, of course, being that sort myself. And here now alongside vindication of my solidarity with Tony we also have the delightfully predictable reaction of all the sanctimonious "normal" people reading. Tony's finally doing what you want (behaving like you do) and your response is to vilify him even further for it. Hah! And you wonder why we end up shutting ourselves down. Because it's a lose/lose scenario, isn't it, trying to please you folks? No matter what we do or how we act we're always going to be wrong. The only way to even sort of win is to shut down emotionally, learn not to acknowledge painful feelings, so that when people inevitably belittle and insult us it won't interfere with our ability to do what needs to be done.
Amusing too that this exact strategy is apparently tragic and sympathetic in Annie, yet monstrous in Tony. It's so very difficult to empathize with people you don't know, isn't it? What a chore to wonder what they've been through or to try to see things from their point of view. Oh, hey, I know! Let's just call them bastards and demonize everything they do instead. Yes, that's much easier. Certainly not the exact behaviour that causes socially challenged people to become this way in the first place.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2015 17:49:50 GMT
I think it's consistent to say that Tony is not very good at being a parent to Annie while at the same time saying that he may have some good qualities, and that he may actually be trying to do something good or trying to be a good parent at this time, he may just either be very bad at it or have a weird idea about what being a good parent means.
Keep in mind that while for us the viewer Annie the young girl who has crazy fun adventures is a more fun comic from the parents perspective Annie the good student who is not potentially going to get killed by monsters is probably the preference.
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Post by Refugee on Jul 29, 2015 18:13:20 GMT
I do wonder whether he'll shut down or open up more if Donny forces the issue again. Donny, I think, knows better than to force. He's known Tony for a long time, and I suspect knows how to how to listen to him.
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Post by Refugee on Jul 29, 2015 18:23:44 GMT
Don understands that with someone like Tony, it's not a matter of "forcing the issue". It's a matter of finding out what Tony's trying to do and why, what Tony thinks is going on. And that is very likely to NOT be, "Why are you being so mean to your daughter?" Tony's seeing something else entirely, and until Don (and Annie, and we) understand what that is, nothing Tony does will make any sense.
And I'm suspicious that what Don is about to show us is that while Tony's methods may suck, he's actually doing something that needs to be done. More, it may well be that what he's doing is pretty much the only way it can be done.
Or maybe not. Maybe he's being driven by anger at Annie or even Surma, or by a clumsy, mechanical understand of how to raise girls, or by a misguided, vivisectionist curiosity. We don't know, and until we do, it's foolish, even dangerous to interfere.
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Post by The Anarch on Jul 29, 2015 18:27:17 GMT
This feels like a Jim North "MEANWHILE (in an alternate universe)" edit posted on the main site via hack. I can neither confirm nor deny these allegations.
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Post by Daedalus on Jul 29, 2015 18:32:51 GMT
I think it's consistent to say that Tony is not very good at being a parent to Annie while at the same time saying that he may have some good qualities, and that he may actually be trying to do something good or trying to be a good parent at this time, he may just either be very bad at it or have a weird idea about what being a good parent means. Time for some Tony psychoanalysis! "May" is the operative word here, obviously. We honestly do not know enough about his motives yet to entirely judge him as a person. We are, however, justified in saying that he has done severe damage to Annie's emotional balance, and that she is now an unstable wreck compared to how she was before he appeared. Most of his actions have not seemed actively malevolent (although they reek of an ulterior motive apart from his daughter's wellbeing). Although handled badly, and mostly harmful, they seem logical enough from Tony's perspective, without any context that we the readers have gained. The notable exception to this trend is his first, abrupt denouncement of her makeup. While that was rude-bordering-on-abusive, and definitely the worst thing to say on the first time you see your daughter again, it's also relatively understandable considering that it may remind him of his lost wife. If we embrace the hypothesis that he blames Annie for his wife's death (because, you know, she is technically responsible), it also explains some of his coldness towards her. After all, he tried (poorly) to complement Kat - so his coldness appears to be mostly focussed towards Annie. So he's a man who never dealt with emotions well, trying to deal with the grief of the death of his wife, and possibly blaming his daughter. As far as we know, he and Surma did love each other (in some shape or form), but especially in light of the flashback a while ago (the death glare of hatred and heartbreak) this love does not extend in the same way towards Annie. (Yet, at least. They may come to know each other better in the coming chapters.) His already tenuous relationship with Annie may have been complicated by whatever the hell happened in Divine. We don't know what he was up to then, and I suspect it will be the key to deciphering Tony's goals. If he were trying to do something benevolent (like prevent Annie from dying from having a child) and got his arm burned off for the trouble, well, I can't blame him for being a little irritated. Especially if he thought it was Annie that did so, because as has been pointed out a few times before, Annie and Zimmy look alike in the latter's dream world. But if we find his purpose in Chapter 38 to have been malevolent all along, such as trying to resurrect his wife by sacrificing his daughter, as another common theory goes? I don't think this is likely, but if it turns out to be true...Then I will invent a device to cross into fictional universes and slay him myself, probably with a wooden stake, since that seems to be the best way to destroy heartless monsters.
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Post by Eversist on Jul 29, 2015 19:33:43 GMT
Am I really the only one who isn't surprised by this page? No. Am I really the only one who can't stand this figure of speech? Maybe I misunderstand, not a native speaker and so on, but it looks like you say the rest of us can't read. I admit it is not unlikely you are smarter than me, but do you really need to rub it in. Since no one has replied yet... I agree it's an obnoxious figure of speech, but usually the person using it doesn't mean it as rude as it comes off. Additionally I see it getting made fun of all the time on Reddit, so the general public probably agrees with you to some extent. I am also not surprised by this page, for the record (because people need to be keeping track [this is sarcasm]).
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Bill
Junior Member
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Post by Bill on Jul 29, 2015 19:42:11 GMT
I have nothing to add to the discussion of Tony's motives and social-emotional reasons for his behavior. However: It would have been much easier to move the rolling desk chair to the armchair (and the to window). A social oversight on Tony's part, the desk a better location, or is Donald ensuring that Renard is also an observer (perhaps as emotional support for Annie)? It should come as no surprise that Tony's hand (and half his forearm) appears to have been burned off, given that Zimmy was at least half Annie and/or had full cooperation from the elemental at the time of the punch. (Disclosure: I was surprised.) There is a simple way for Tony and Donald to come to suspect what Annie has done.
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Post by gunnerwf on Jul 29, 2015 20:13:52 GMT
Disturbing, interesting
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Post by gunnerwf on Jul 29, 2015 20:29:57 GMT
I like how etheric missiles are totally a thing, while limb replacement robotics is a no-go. I for one would love to have a golem hand. In real life we have even more advanced prosthetics than that, actually it seems kind of primitive compared to ones I've seen. He appears to have been a place where the medicine wasn't the highest quality, is my guess(not the court). real life prosthetic
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Post by Fhqwhgads on Jul 29, 2015 20:30:35 GMT
Hahaha. Well I said a while ago (freaking, years ago now!?) that Tony is the Sherlock Holmes archetype. A personality I'm intimately familiar with, of course, being that sort myself. And here now alongside vindication of my solidarity with Tony we also have the delightfully predictable reaction of all the sanctimonious "normal" people reading. Tony's finally doing what you want (behaving like you do) and your response is to vilify him even further for it. Hah! And you wonder why we end up shutting ourselves down. Because it's a lose/lose scenario, isn't it, trying to please you folks? No matter what we do or how we act we're always going to be wrong. The only way to even sort of win is to shut down emotionally, learn not to acknowledge painful feelings, so that when people inevitably belittle and insult us it won't interfere with our ability to do what needs to be done. Amusing too that this exact strategy is apparently tragic and sympathetic in Annie, yet monstrous in Tony. It's so very difficult to empathize with people you don't know, isn't it? What a chore to wonder what they've been through or to try to see things from their point of view. Oh, hey, I know! Let's just call them bastards and demonize everything they do instead. Yes, that's much easier. Certainly not the exact behaviour that causes socially challenged people to become this way in the first place. +1 but needs more sarcasm :^p
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Post by ctso74 on Jul 29, 2015 20:33:28 GMT
We'll have to wait to see how damning Tony's jovialness is (that is an odd sentence to write). Though, he still seems more broken than malevolent to me. However, intentions and mental problems are little excuse when a child's at stake. It should be interesting to see Tony's side of things. The two do seem somewhat Annie/Kat-like. It makes me wonder, what if the story suddenly jumped forward twenty years, with all things being equal. What kind of mother would Annie end up being, considering her current parental role model? Tony, as we see him here, is only capable of opening up in the exclusive presence of his only friend. It's not a matter of choice to him, but something the life has conditioned him into. Alcohol might also help. Alcohol always helps. Always.
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ysca
New Member
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Post by ysca on Jul 29, 2015 21:01:59 GMT
Weirdly enough, the more emotion he displays, he angrier and more uncomfortable he makes me. He really is capable of holding a conversation, he's capable of being warm and friendly, he just doesn't even try to do so for his daughter. He doesn't see it as being worth the effort, whatever reasoning he provides for himself as to why. That's just so depressing and excruciating, it's awful. Who says he doesn't see it as worth the effort? It might be that he simply doesn't know how to be this person in front of his daughter or simply can't.
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ysca
New Member
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Post by ysca on Jul 29, 2015 21:13:44 GMT
Anthony Carver caused his daughter to mutilate herself. I disagree. Annie chose to do that to herself because she was unable to deal with her own emotions and took the advice from a friend a little too literally. He has been a bad father, but Annie also did this to herself. Having been someone who did self mutilate for a long time, I don't think it's ever fair to blame someone else for how someone chooses to deal with their emotions. I would never blame my mother for my decision to relieve my emotions by cutting myself, and I wouldn't blame Tony for Annie's decision to hide away her emotions instead of deal with them. He hurt Annie and upset her, but Annie's action after that were her own doing.
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Post by rosencrantz on Jul 29, 2015 21:17:15 GMT
Friday's Comic: Full page shot of Annie's reaction.
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Post by antiyonder on Jul 29, 2015 22:13:58 GMT
1. There is a simple way for Tony and Donald to come to suspect what Annie has done. Agreed. One might even say that mistreating his daughter is in that respect a slap in the face to his late wife. 2. And lets say that his absence is caused by him trying to find a way to save Annie from the same fate as Surma. Still doesn't explain his emotional absence, especially since we know he's capable of expressing emotion. Sorry, but trying to safe someone physical is futile, if you treat them in a fashion that hurts them emotionally. Frankly death would probably be more humane than setting someone up to live for a long time as an emotional mess. Heck, emotional harm is in the long run more problematic than any physical harm could be.
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Post by Per on Jul 29, 2015 22:45:10 GMT
I'm bedazed and befuddled by the fact that we're on page three and I'm the only one who's noticed that Anthony says "anymore" as one word, perfectly consistent with having just strangled a dog for no reason.
The. Only. One.
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Sadie
Full Member
I eat food and sleep in a horizontal position.
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Post by Sadie on Jul 29, 2015 23:28:25 GMT
I'm bedazed and befuddled by the fact that we're on page three and I'm the only one who's noticed that Anthony says "anymore" as one word, perfectly consistent with having just strangled a dog for no reason. The. Only. One. We'd been trying to block it from memory, thank you
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Post by Daedalus on Jul 29, 2015 23:30:07 GMT
I'm bedazed and befuddled by the fact that we're on page three and I'm the only one who's noticed that Anthony says "anymore" as one word, perfectly consistent with having just strangled a dog for no reason. The. Only. One. Coyote above, why did you have to remind me?
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Post by avurai on Jul 29, 2015 23:34:07 GMT
Weirdly enough, the more emotion he displays, he angrier and more uncomfortable he makes me. He really is capable of holding a conversation, he's capable of being warm and friendly, he just doesn't even try to do so for his daughter. He doesn't see it as being worth the effort, whatever reasoning he provides for himself as to why. That's just so depressing and excruciating, it's awful. Who says he doesn't see it as worth the effort? It might be that he simply doesn't know how to be this person in front of his daughter or simply can't. He's not making the attempt. Even a disturbingly awkward Jones-Smile face at Annie and horribly mangled attempts at warmth would be better than what he's doing now. He doesn't get to use his emotionally reserved nature as an excuse. He's shown he's capable of holding a conversation under the right circumstances and for him to not even try to act kindly towards his daughter is unacceptable. He's put in no effort to be anything other than authoritarian and monotone with her, and even a failed attempt (which would still be negligent) would be far better than what he's doing now. I know what it's like to live life like this guy, I've been that closed off and stuck in my own head, in a fashion close to that severe even, but for him to not try at all is unacceptable. When dealing with family, you gladly fall flat on your face in an attempt to make things work, but he doesn't seem willing to do that at all. He'll gladly try to keep his sense of control in front of her to seem like a stable authority because the idea of being vulnerable in front of his child isn't good to him. So he won't allow himself the possibility of fumbling, the possibility of saying the wrong thing. He isn't just afraid to mess things up between him and his daughter, he's so trapped inside his own ego he can't handle the idea of not being in control of the situation, and she suffers for it. Her current disposition doesn't seem to bother him; he seems satisfied. He wants his daughter to behave like him, regardless of emotional consequence. He's not a healthy person to be around and he doesn't seem willing to delve into self-improvement, he seems to think things are going exactly the way they're supposed to.
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Post by avurai on Jul 29, 2015 23:38:51 GMT
I'm bedazed and befuddled by the fact that we're on page three and I'm the only one who's noticed that Anthony says "anymore" as one word, perfectly consistent with having just strangled a dog for no reason. The. Only. One. I feel both compelled and horrified to know what you're talking about.
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Jul 30, 2015 0:01:59 GMT
There's quite a bit more than fingers missing from that hand.. I like how etheric missiles are totally a thing, while limb replacement robotics is a no-go. I for one would love to have a golem hand. Oh, I bet Kat could totally do that. But good luck convincing her!
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