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Post by zbeeblebrox on Jun 10, 2015 9:55:37 GMT
Donald, you rawk! Finally, someone with the standing and willingness to - hopefully - tell Anthony that his hateful abuse isn't going to fly. And yes, Anthony's actions and speech count as hate in my view, even if (and it's an if) he doesn't 'feel' or 'intend' them that way because he is too damaged and/or clueless, or indeed even if he truly and deeply believes that everything he does is solely for Antimony's good. The hate is in the actions and the harm they cause, not his warped understanding or beliefs. (I've been thinking in this regard about the demon Screwtape's description of one human in C.S. Lewis's book The Screwtape Letters: "She's the sort of woman who lives for others - you can tell the others by their hunted expression.") I think that's a philosophical position which is, at best, debatable. That a person can act hateful unintentionally. Without intent or emotion, I ask, where does this hate come from precisely? The aether? Personally, I don't think Anthony has the emotional capacity to be hateful. He's inspired hate for his actions, but that doesn't reflect one iota on his own disposition or intent. Which is all that matters for such considerations. |
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Post by artezzatrigger on Jun 10, 2015 10:15:35 GMT
Time to see how patient Donny can be.
Answers aren't likely to come easy, if they're going to come at all. Anthony strikes me as the kind of person who would rather keep his mouth shut than give some excuse or made up story. Up until now, Donald has been portrayed as very calm and level headed, even in flashbacks.
But now Donald has absolutely no reason to hold back, and his language betrays his calm demeanor. The only question is how far they can push each other before the whole dinner gets called off.
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Post by rafk on Jun 10, 2015 10:57:52 GMT
At last SOMEONE asked the question.
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Post by pxc on Jun 10, 2015 11:23:55 GMT
Great to see Donny cut the crap and go after Tony. But it won't last. If Donny won't be put off by whatever evasion or refusal Tony tries, Tony will take Annie and leave.
If course I could imagine Tony saying "Come along, Antimo-" and Donny interrupting with "No. She's staying here for now, until we find something more suitable than that abomination you've got her living in."
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Jun 10, 2015 11:46:52 GMT
Donald is actually taking an indirect approach. He isn't confronting Tony about Annie, which is almost certain to fail. He is trying to get Tony to talk about himself.
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Post by Goatmon on Jun 10, 2015 11:51:03 GMT
Donald is the hero we deserve.
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lit
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Post by lit on Jun 10, 2015 12:12:37 GMT
Great to see Donny cut the crap and go after Tony. But it won't last. If Donny won't be put off by whatever evasion or refusal Tony tries, Tony will take Annie and leave. If course I could imagine Tony saying "Come along, Antimo-" and Donny interrupting with "No. She's staying here for now, until we find something more suitable than that abomination you've got her living in." That would be great. But would Annie agree to stay? It's shown that whenever she's appeared to be given a choice, she caves to her father. She has defied him only for Renard, but I don't know if she is willing yet to do that for her own sake. And the Donlons would never hold her against her will. I love how Anja is physically holding on to Annie but I'm not sure if Annie is in any place to notice or take comfort from the gesture. |
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Post by arf on Jun 10, 2015 12:39:05 GMT
(And if Tony refuses to cooperate, we have Eglamore hiding in the kitchen carrying a big stick) I had wondered whether James and Jones were going to be other guests. A pleasure we have in store. |
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Post by todd on Jun 10, 2015 12:41:02 GMT
Donald's definitely the right person to confront Antony on his long mysterious absence/ Antony can refuse to answer Annie's questions without trouble because: a) she's a minor and b) his daughter. But Donald's neither, so Antony can't so easily avoid the question.
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Post by Daedalus on Jun 10, 2015 12:46:29 GMT
He's inspired hate for his actions, but that doesn't reflect one iota on his own disposition or intent. Which is all that matters for such considerations. Of course, regardless of what his actions or emotions are labeled, the other thing that matters in the larger scope of events is how his actions have demolished Annie's self-esteem. After a certain point, in real life at least, the effects of an action matter more than its intent. I'm liking Anja more and more. She's giving off the impression that she's really trying to protect Annie here, while still being disappointed. THAT'S the kind of parent Annie needs. Any chance we can redo Goodykrigg Court with Annie being the one to get adopted instead of Kat? See, this is the kind of parent Anthony should have been. Not all-forgiving, but not cruel and manipulative either. *stares pointedly at people who said he was justified earlier* |
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Post by kelantar on Jun 10, 2015 13:04:18 GMT
YES. This page brings tears of joy to my eyes. Firstly, I love how protective Anja is being of Annie. She is almost at a loss for words in the first panel, but in the second she puts her arm around Annie and leads her away into panel three where she sends Donnie the non-verbal signal to activate Operation: Badass Husband. And then Donald interrupts like a boss, all like, "Yes, we know Kat is an awesome daughter; let's talk about how you're a terrible parent." With much more tact, of course.
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Post by kalechibki on Jun 10, 2015 13:09:36 GMT
Great to see Donny cut the crap and go after Tony. But it won't last. If Donny won't be put off by whatever evasion or refusal Tony tries, Tony will take Annie and leave. If course I could imagine Tony saying "Come along, Antimo-" and Donny interrupting with "No. She's staying here for now, until we find something more suitable than that abomination you've got her living in." That would be great. But would Annie agree to stay? It's shown that whenever she's appeared to be given a choice, she caves to her father. She has defied him only for Renard, but I don't know if she is willing yet to do that for her own sake. And the Donlons would never hold her against her will. I love how Anja is physically holding on to Annie but I'm not sure if Annie is in any place to notice or take comfort from the gesture. My guess is that Annie craving it, but because of her past, she has an almost impossible task to express it. Anja is so attuned to people's expressions, if Annie had even flinched at the approach, she would have taken it slower. Anja also has been the most open of those at court to Annie - she's been open and honest about the court's history with Surma, even when it was ugly. There is trust that builds there. While I would agree that the Donlans won't force Annie, and it would be a LOT better if Donny and Anja could have made this confrontation without Annie present*, I can also see the Donlans asking Annie to stay back just for a few minutes, which may give her the room to "defy" and stay back. *Research has shown that it is not good to confront the abuser in front of the abused. The abused will often come to the defense of the abuser, and downplay the situation. I HOPE this is part of the reason that Donald is going to where Tony has been rather than his actions regarding Annie. This isn't to say that Annie won't try to defend Anthony here, but there isn't as much that she can say. Annie has clearly placated and tried to rationalize why it is her fault for all of this. ALL of it. As much as I love Donny and Anja, and I'm really encouraged that some one is there for Annie, I don't think we're going to see a return of the old Annie quickly, if at all. Tom's been too honest with all of the emotions throughout the comic for this to happen. I know that this is going to sound a weird statement - but I think the best thing I can hope for Annie is to break down without running away like she did in Fire Spike. I think if that was to happen, the Donlans would separate Annie and Anthony, no matter Anthony's protestations, and the Donlans would be there for Annie. |
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dreki
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Post by dreki on Jun 10, 2015 14:07:58 GMT
Yeah, confronting Tony is going to be delicate- whether Annie is here or not. Although we may want to see him put in his place, ultimately the most important thing is Annie. Tact is more likely to help here. This also works because it's a perfectly reasonable thing for a friend to ask and be upset about. Questioning someone's parenting skills is a little more of a minefield. Donald, you rawk! Finally, someone with the standing and willingness to - hopefully - tell Anthony that his hateful abuse isn't going to fly. And yes, Anthony's actions and speech count as hate in my view, even if (and it's an if) he doesn't 'feel' or 'intend' them that way because he is too damaged and/or clueless, or indeed even if he truly and deeply believes that everything he does is solely for Antimony's good. The hate is in the actions and the harm they cause, not his warped understanding or beliefs. (I've been thinking in this regard about the demon Screwtape's description of one human in C.S. Lewis's book The Screwtape Letters: "She's the sort of woman who lives for others - you can tell the others by their hunted expression.") I think that's a philosophical position which is, at best, debatable. That a person can act hateful unintentionally. Without intent or emotion, I ask, where does this hate come from precisely? The aether? Personally, I don't think Anthony has the emotional capacity to be hateful. He's inspired hate for his actions, but that doesn't reflect one iota on his own disposition or intent. Which is all that matters for such considerations. Hateful can mean causing hatred as well as being intended with hate. So abuse that inspires hatred IS hateful even if the abuse is initially done without hate. Hateful works both ways. I also would say that it's entirely possible that Anthony actually does hate Antimony, at least a little bit. If it weren't for her- Surma would still be alive. I think Renard had a moment of hatred for her, the moment when he tried to take over her body and kill her. He just found out Surma was dead (and possibly just found out she had fallen in love with, or at least had a child with, another), her essence stolen by this strange child. Renard has since mostly gotten past that and deeply regrets it. |
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Post by oneandoneis2 on Jun 10, 2015 14:07:59 GMT
Based on Tony's replies in flashbacks, I have a sneaking suspicion that the next strip will open with him just saying "I had matters to attend to"
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Post by FrozenFT on Jun 10, 2015 14:22:25 GMT
I know that this is going to sound a weird statement - but I think the best thing I can hope for Annie is to break down without running away like she did in Fire Spike. I think if that was to happen, the Donlans would separate Annie and Anthony, no matter Anthony's protestations, and the Donlans would be there for Annie. I can definitely see that happening if she breaks down, but right now she is pretty much as on guard against that as we have ever seen, since she has had her metaphorical "mask" on for the last chapter or so - in Fire Spike she was caught completely by surprise. But we can hope, I guess (Hoping for Annie to break down into tears - this is what a chapter and a bit of Anthony does to us). |
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Post by Señor Goose on Jun 10, 2015 15:05:41 GMT
Alright Donny! Time to bring the heat! Let him have it!
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Post by deuswyvern on Jun 10, 2015 15:14:12 GMT
I love how nonchalant Donny is with the question. We probably will not get everything, but we are going to get more than we currently have. Right now its looking as if Anthony legitimately wants to be on good terms with Donny, so he may not just leave.
I'm not sure how this will be end. Right now Anthony looks less like a master manipulator, and more like a socially inept bully. Still, the conflict between Annie and her father is not going to go away after 2 chapters.
Personally I think including Eglamore in this would be a bad idea. He gets too emotional on the subject of Anthony, I don't think he's made things made things easier for Annie on this particular front.
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Sadie
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I eat food and sleep in a horizontal position.
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Post by Sadie on Jun 10, 2015 15:47:16 GMT
Wow, Kat, what did that potato ever do to you?
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Post by rasamune on Jun 10, 2015 16:03:19 GMT
Wow, Kat, what did that potato ever do to you? It looked too much like Anthony's dumb head |
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Post by ctso74 on Jun 10, 2015 16:39:48 GMT
Dum dee dum dee! Go on man, make our day! Anthony is of course not going to give a meaningful answer and probably get up to leave and take Annie with him. Or "Oh Donald! I am so glad you finally asked! I was kidnapped by space fairies who put a strong geas on me! I would be forced to be a dick until the 2D asked me what happened to me! Oh you saved me Donald! Now I can finally be the father I was meant to be to my darling daughter!" Confetti! A brass band playing! Fireworks! Tony: "I had matters to attend to." ( The confetti thrower looks at her full hand in confusion.) ( All of the brass band members look at the ground, dejected, while one plays the sad trombone.) Anja: "But... the fireworks..." If anyone can get a concise answer, I imagine it's Donny. Myabe, we'll get a peek into the Orbital Man of mystery. Let's hope we get some answers about the "Bone Laser from Space". Was the coma a mistake, anesthesia, or worse? Tony may be a dunce in some areas, but he's apparently(?) smart in others. Insight, into his true expertise in the Ether, could give a clue to his plans, beyond checking homework and chatting with Renard. |
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Post by nero on Jun 10, 2015 16:58:34 GMT
So the whole time Annie and Anthony have only looked at their plates. I'm glad Donald asked so quickly. Hopefully Annie will appreciate the Donlans' help.
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infrared
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Post by infrared on Jun 10, 2015 18:26:59 GMT
YO, TELL HIM DONNY!
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dreki
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Post by dreki on Jun 10, 2015 18:33:26 GMT
I know that this is going to sound a weird statement - but I think the best thing I can hope for Annie is to break down without running away like she did in Fire Spike. I think if that was to happen, the Donlans would separate Annie and Anthony, no matter Anthony's protestations, and the Donlans would be there for Annie. I can definitely see that happening if she breaks down, but right now she is pretty much as on guard against that as we have ever seen, since she has had her metaphorical "mask" on for the last chapter or so - in Fire Spike she was caught completely by surprise. But we can hope, I guess (Hoping for Annie to break down into tears - this is what a chapter and a bit of Anthony does to us). Her masks has serious cracks in it. I think if she even got as close as she did when she was packing to leave, they would step in. The problem is that this is a seriously complex situation- they can't just step in. Annie, like most abuse victims, firmly believes that her dad's actions are justified and will defend him to the hilt. She has been since she joined the school, and is showing no signs of stopping. I was actually very relieved that she had the gumption to defy him by transferring Renard to Kat instead. |
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karl
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Post by karl on Jun 10, 2015 18:55:17 GMT
I think that's a philosophical position which is, at best, debatable. That a person can act hateful unintentionally. Without intent or emotion, I ask, where does this hate come from precisely? The aether? Personally, I don't think Anthony has the emotional capacity to be hateful. He's inspired hate for his actions, but that doesn't reflect one iota on his own disposition or intent. Which is all that matters for such considerations. I don't think he is actually emotionless but rather he has trouble expressing and understanding them. He could act hatefully (with the emotion hate) towards Antimony without knowing why he is doing that or that he is doing that at all. All he knows that certain matters need to be addressed. Why would the Donlans invite him to dinner - of course it's because of Antimony cheating off their daughter. |
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Post by jombra on Jun 10, 2015 19:14:13 GMT
Chapter predictions: Zimmy shows up and punches Anthony for a second time.
Actually I wouldn't mind seeing Kat talk to Zimmy about this at some point. Parley and Smitty are good friends but Zimmy actually knows what's up with Anthony being a bad dad. Whatever he was doing to Annie before is kind of a scary precursor when predicting what he could be doing to her now that he has her nearby in his custody. Why did he come back? Is he trying a different experiment on her?? Scary possibilities, man.
Can we just get a hat and put a bunch of names in it to see who gets to punch Anthony? I'm all for this idea.
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Post by FrozenFT on Jun 10, 2015 19:21:41 GMT
I can definitely see that happening if she breaks down, but right now she is pretty much as on guard against that as we have ever seen, since she has had her metaphorical "mask" on for the last chapter or so - in Fire Spike she was caught completely by surprise. But we can hope, I guess (Hoping for Annie to break down into tears - this is what a chapter and a bit of Anthony does to us). Her masks has serious cracks in it. I think if she even got as close as she did when she was packing to leave, they would step in. The problem is that this is a seriously complex situation- they can't just step in. Annie, like most abuse victims, firmly believes that her dad's actions are justified and will defend him to the hilt. She has been since she joined the school, and is showing no signs of stopping. I was actually very relieved that she had the gumption to defy him by transferring Renard to Kat instead. I can see that actually featuring some more in this chapter - her dad finds out, everything goes downhill, Annie ends up all in a mess and the Donlans step in. Alternatively Annie ends up all in a mess and tells Kat to give Rey to Anthony and then they fall out and everything is terrible. But I'm sure Tom would never put us through reading such a tragic and heartbreaking event. On the subject of Annie not believing her dad has done anything wrong, it seems to me that the number one priority is getting her away from him and working from there. |
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Post by deuswyvern on Jun 10, 2015 19:28:53 GMT
I can definitely see that happening if she breaks down, but right now she is pretty much as on guard against that as we have ever seen, since she has had her metaphorical "mask" on for the last chapter or so - in Fire Spike she was caught completely by surprise. But we can hope, I guess (Hoping for Annie to break down into tears - this is what a chapter and a bit of Anthony does to us). Her masks has serious cracks in it. I think if she even got as close as she did when she was packing to leave, they would step in. The problem is that this is a seriously complex situation- they can't just step in. Annie, like most abuse victims, firmly believes that her dad's actions are justified and will defend him to the hilt. She has been since she joined the school, and is showing no signs of stopping. I was actually very relieved that she had the gumption to defy him by transferring Renard to Kat instead. I have trouble believing that Annie can really think Anthony's actions are justified. She has had too many experiences away from him to truly believe that. I think that she's afraid of him. Specifically that he will abandon her if she displeases him in any way. I think she defends him because the alternative would be to admit that it is a bad relationship that she needs to get out of, and right now she is unable to consider that. |
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dreki
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Post by dreki on Jun 10, 2015 23:36:08 GMT
On the subject of Annie not believing her dad has done anything wrong, it seems to me that the number one priority is getting her away from him and working from there. I'll go with that, it'll still be harder, though. It's a little shocking/worrisome that she hasn't made more progress in the two years that she basically had no contact with him... Her masks has serious cracks in it. I think if she even got as close as she did when she was packing to leave, they would step in. The problem is that this is a seriously complex situation- they can't just step in. Annie, like most abuse victims, firmly believes that her dad's actions are justified and will defend him to the hilt. She has been since she joined the school, and is showing no signs of stopping. I was actually very relieved that she had the gumption to defy him by transferring Renard to Kat instead. I have trouble believing that Annie can really think Anthony's actions are justified. She has had too many experiences away from him to truly believe that. I think that she's afraid of him. Specifically that he will abandon her if she displeases him in any way. I think she defends him because the alternative would be to admit that it is a bad relationship that she needs to get out of, and right now she is unable to consider that. I think your post is contradictory. You acknowledge that Annie cannot accept the relationship is unhealthy- but still put forth that she knows his actions are unjustified. Those two can't really co-exist. Acknowledging that Tony is unjustified would necessitate realizing that he's not being a good father to her, that the relationship is unhealthy. If she can't accept that- then she NEEDS to believe that his actions are justified. I agree that she's afraid he'll abandon her. He did once already- he went years with only a single, cryptic phone call to her. Of course she's afraid he'll disappear again. Because he's her father. And she loves him. And she needs to believe that he wants what is best for her and is trying to help her and has good intentions that justify his actions. Realizing that the abuse is unjustifiable is pretty far along the path to leaving. Annie is nowhere near that. She's still a little girl who desperately needs the approval of her only living parent and simply cannot accept that what he's doing is that horrible. We've seen Annie make excuse after excuse for him- and haven't really seen any sign that she doesn't believe them. It's further complicated because, honestly, a lot of his actions are justified and would be normal from a loving parent. Being disappointed in her cheating, recognizing that she's desperately struggling academically and needs to be held back, telling her she's too young for makeup, deciding that Renard and the Forest are dangerous and disrupting her studies- all of those are fair calls. It's entirely possible Surma would've made the same calls (save for the forest one?), but she would have done it more kindly and with unquestionable love and while addressing her daughter's emotional needs. |
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Post by warrl on Jun 10, 2015 23:54:09 GMT
It's further complicated because, honestly, a lot of his actions are justified and would be normal from a loving parent. Being disappointed in her cheating, so far so good... A loving parent would have arranged this between terms, and told their child about it at that time - NOT wait until after she attends one or more classes (that she won't be spending the term in) on the first day of school. Which means that whatever class(es) she SHOULD have been attending during that time happened without her, and what she should have been doing in those classes must be dealt with separately - taking up more of her time and making more work for the teacher(s). A loving parent might tell her she's too young for makeup. A loving parent would not belittle makeup in general, ban it in his classroom to single her out (while ignoring other students wearing makeup), further embarrass her by putting the class on hold to wait for her... A loving parent might decide that. A loving parent would not simply write off the whole thing of being Forest Medium as silly and then demand, without explanation, that ownership of Renard be turned over. A loving parent also wouldn't disappear for 2+ years with no meaningful contact and then show up at the beginning of the school term as their child's teacher without advance notice. For that matter a friend - not necessarily a good friend, just a friend - wouldn't disappear for that long and then show up as a coworker to old friends without advance notice. Maybe if he didn't know they were working there, but he knew that a phone call to Jones reached Annie and then promptly got passed to Donald, so clearly he knew that at least at that time Jones, Annie, and Donald were all at the school. |
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Post by fuzzyone on Jun 11, 2015 0:14:03 GMT
Now THIS is what I was expecting from Donald Donlan. He has consistently been the quiet badass of the group. All the way back in Fangs of Summertime when he calmly, and with a gesture protected Annie with ethero-computer shields. In Microsat 5, he did what needed doing, while calmly defusing Annie's ticking time bomb of a personality crisis over her father. Donald Donlan is, at least as far as he has been presented to us, a GOOD MAN, and a stand-up father. He has the strength and fortitude to stand up to Ysengrin'sattack in the blink of an eye. Didn't stop me from raising my arms in victory when I saw him calmly shut down Anthony's bullshit, and cut straight to the heart of the matter.
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