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Post by warrl on Mar 19, 2015 1:58:14 GMT
But Divine was not exactly a flashback or dream - boundaries got crossed a lot in that chapter.
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Post by Corvo on Mar 19, 2015 2:20:20 GMT
But Divine was not exactly a flashback or dream - boundaries got crossed a lot in that chapter. I thought someone might say that. But the last panels of 1050 and first ones of 1051, in my mind, clearly show that most of it was inside Kat's dream. Either way it was a huge reality/dream mess, and there was no round corners in the panels. |
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Post by warrl on Mar 19, 2015 3:07:43 GMT
And yet...
* The last panels of 1050 and 1053, plus 1054, show that the real non-dream Zimmy and Gamma were there and did stuff.
* Second panel of 1037 shows that Zimmy is aware of and talks to Kat's head-pigeon, while Kat neither hears the bird nor feels its weight; this would be really odd if it's Kat's dream.
I agree that it was a huge reality/dream mess - but there's no part of it that was completely dream or flashback.
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Post by Corvo on Mar 19, 2015 5:08:59 GMT
And yet... * The last panels of 1050 and 1053, plus 1054, show that the real non-dream Zimmy and Gamma were there and did stuff. * Second panel of 1037 shows that Zimmy is aware of and talks to Kat's head-pigeon, while Kat neither hears the bird nor feels its weight; this would be really odd if it's Kat's dream. I agree that it was a huge reality/dream mess - but there's no part of it that was completely dream or flashback. I don't know about "no part of it", but I get what you're saying. So what exactly are we establishing here? That the current chapter can't be a complete dream because of the lack of rounded corners, but can still be a "reality/dream mess"(Are we going with that name now? Can I call it by something shorter? "Dreality"? "Realidream"? Anything? XD), like in Divine? Sounds well-grounded enough for me. I'm going with it. Not like it's going to make a difference anyway, I don't think this is a dream of any kind, haha! |
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Post by ctso74 on Mar 19, 2015 5:15:33 GMT
 As opposed to the Shame Hat. Dunce caps don't have tassels though. Perhaps, the ones in fashion schools do. You're forced to wear it with socks/sandals, and they're always white after labor day. |
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heranje
Full Member
Oh super wow!
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Post by heranje on Mar 19, 2015 5:33:48 GMT
That's what I thought when reading the page - she's dissociating. I've experienced this and the sensation is portrayed very accurately. |
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Post by mcbibble on Mar 19, 2015 6:07:02 GMT
The main reason I don't believe this is a dream is that it would be ... cheap. Previously when there's been a dream-like element to the story, it hasn't affected the importance of depicted events. But if this turns out to have been a dream I can't see how that would be the case- it would be a copout. I've never felt cheated by this comic and I don't expect to. Tom hasn't gone for the cheap emotional manipulation without payoff in the past, why would he start now?
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Post by philman on Mar 19, 2015 9:05:06 GMT
Nah, High School is part of the 'mandatory' schooling. College and University are compulsory and generally last at a minimum between the ages of 18-21, 18 being US adulthood. Oh, wait, I'm starting to get this. In UK, secondary education is compulsory and is counted to start at age 11? Let's clarify the terms. When I talk about University, I refer to the tertiary education, say a MA, which usually takes longer than to the age of 21, although tends to start before it. I have understood by "high school" the secondary education in US and UK, similar to the Continental secondary education level, lyceum. This often takes place between ages 15 and 18 and you continue from this to University or College, so when I talk about High school, I have only referred to this, starting from or after 9th grade (9th grade being the ages 14-15), which in Europe is usually not counted in the High school but is the last year of compulsory primary education. So, when saying that "they're not in the high school" I had no idea that in UK, earlier stages are counted in 'High school', and only meant that they're not 16 yet, but are they? What age are they again? We just discussed that when Jack grew that ridiculous beard, but I already forgot the results. *note, however, that compulsory and mandatory are basically synonymous and university degrees certainly are not compulsory in US. The UK doesn't have a specific term called 'high school'. We have Primary school (Ages 5-11, years 1-6), then Secondary school (Ages 11-16, years 7-11). At 16 years old school stops being compulsory. After that you can either have 6th form or college, both of which are ages 16-18. Many newer schools for this age group are called colleges, older ones tend to be called 6th form. 6th form is an archaic name corresponding to the old school system, where secondary school started at age 13 and the numbers started again from 1. That system was replaced decades ago but the name has stuck around. I suppose the american term 'high school' corresponds to the later secondary school and 6th form, but in terms of the way it is used in the UK, would usually just refer to those between 16-18. At 18 you can start applying for university, thankfully the word university seems to mean the same everywhere! As for Annie's age, they have just started year 10 right? That would make her 14. Do I smell horribly drawn party hat edits in the near future? I believe this would be time for a "panic hat". I don't know what one would look like, but I imagine its color is a bruisy black and blue. I think you mean white and gold |
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Post by zimmyzims on Mar 19, 2015 9:15:51 GMT
Oh, wait, I'm starting to get this. In UK, secondary education is compulsory and is counted to start at age 11? Let's clarify the terms. When I talk about University, I refer to the tertiary education, say a MA, which usually takes longer than to the age of 21, although tends to start before it. I have understood by "high school" the secondary education in US and UK, similar to the Continental secondary education level, lyceum. This often takes place between ages 15 and 18 and you continue from this to University or College, so when I talk about High school, I have only referred to this, starting from or after 9th grade (9th grade being the ages 14-15), which in Europe is usually not counted in the High school but is the last year of compulsory primary education. So, when saying that "they're not in the high school" I had no idea that in UK, earlier stages are counted in 'High school', and only meant that they're not 16 yet, but are they? What age are they again? We just discussed that when Jack grew that ridiculous beard, but I already forgot the results. *note, however, that compulsory and mandatory are basically synonymous and university degrees certainly are not compulsory in US. The UK doesn't have a specific term called 'high school'. We have Primary school (Ages 5-11, years 1-6), then Secondary school (Ages 11-16, years 7-11). At 16 years old school stops being compulsory. After that you can either have 6th form or college, both of which are ages 16-18. Many newer schools for this age group are called colleges, older ones tend to be called 6th form. 6th form is an archaic name corresponding to the old school system, where secondary school started at age 13 and the numbers started again from 1. That system was replaced decades ago but the name has stuck around. I suppose the american term 'high school' corresponds to the later secondary school and 6th form, but in terms of the way it is used in the UK, would usually just refer to those between 16-18. At 18 you can start applying for university, thankfully the word university seems to mean the same everywhere! As for Annie's age, they have just started year 10 right? That would make her 14. Okay. So, this is all just a question of different terminology in different countries. "High school", I thought referred to 6th form or "college" stage. If she's 14, that's still primary school to me and those arbitrary paternal rules and dickish teachers seem like completely normal. Not that lyceum didn't have the latter, but I would find it a bit strange and hardly enforceable rule, for example, to command the girls to wash out their make up. For 14-year-olds in compulsory school level, why not, really? They would find it wrong, of course, and I have not seen that happening to 14-year-olds, but could imagine it to happen in some schools without problems after the initial resistance by student - an that resistance only in the case that the rule would be introduced as a new one, like here. |
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kralex
Junior Member
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Post by kralex on Mar 19, 2015 11:15:42 GMT
I was Surma's blinker. Tony knows when she got it, he knows the Donlans kept it, and he can reasonably assume that they'd pass it on to Annie. She has the same etheric abilities as Surma, after all, and she is in a natural position to take Surma's role as court medium. Training for medium duties would call for her getting the blinker stone. All information available to Tony indicates that Annie would get the blinker when she did. The blinker stone was given to Annie by Muut, as a supposed present from Mort. It was not Surma's stone, we don't know if she even used one. Anja Donlan was the one to teach Annie how to use it simply because she is a magic user close to Annie. We later learn the stone was given to her by the psychopomps in hope she would use it to help them with Jeanne's case. Her medium training had nothing to do with the stone. So I have to agree with TBeholder here, Anthony could not know she has a blinker stone, unless he had contact to someone in the Court. Holy laser cow, you're right. Damn, I could have sworn that Anja gave Surma's blinker to Annie. Alright, I have to go re-read the comic before I indulge in hypothesizing. It all seemed to fit so well... Tony calling Annie to get her to put the blinker on the satellite so he can do the bone laser surgery via satellite-based blinker relay. Given that Tony most likely did not know about the blinker, this idea falls apart. |
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Post by antiyonder on Mar 19, 2015 11:53:16 GMT
1. I don't know. How often does one have to play the good intention card if they are actually right? Good intentions as far as I know are played by people who are not only wrong, but also jerks. Basically trying to have their cake and eat it too (Behaving in a dick manner while not being judged for it). 2. Plenty of people had tramas like loosing a loved one, without turning into jerkasses in the process. Some would say that those like Anthony who take the jerk route are emotionally weak, but I think the proper description is entitled. Basically they think that the world is privileged for having them in it, and the moment thing don't work out for them, there will be Hell to pay. And in some of the strips showing him in his youth I get the vibe of arrogance from him. And when you think about it, it's a slap in the face for guys that like Anthony lost their loved ones, but chose to cherish their child and not be a dick. In short the only proper response I can think of to him is best said by J Jonah Jameson in Spider-Man 2. "Ms. Brant. Get me my violin." 3. As for those who think highly of him in universe, unless said friends are morally shady, how can you be sure they just don't fear him and talk nice just to avoid an incident? Now do I agree with comments about him receiving physical violence? Nope. Spoiler note in that my comments might be bordering on ideas: Basically the appropriate outcome would be to have him coming to realize how wrong his actions are and to become filled with regret, only for Antimony to pretty much reject him for a long time.
Now okay, maybe he isn't beyond redemption and the chance for forgiveness, but I hope he earns it through subjecting himself to all sorts of Hell, rather than having it delivered on a silver platter because of how rough he had it beforehand. |
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Kuraimizu
Full Member
Master Librarian
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Post by Kuraimizu on Mar 19, 2015 13:56:01 GMT
anyone else really hoping Annie puts the make-up back on and decides to be defiant to her asshole of a father he's been gone for years, he basically abandoned her and now he decides he can just march back into her life and demand she removes the one think she does daily to remember her mother each time she looks in the mirror www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=437Antimony is Medium of the Forest, Current Incarnation of the Fire Elementals and that makeup is passed from mother to daughter each generation I really hope she goes Fire Elemental on his class and pulls some actual rank as Forest Medium. |
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Pig_catapult
Full Member
Keeper of the Devilkitty
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Post by Pig_catapult on Mar 19, 2015 13:56:45 GMT
Well, y'all know what they say about the road to hell...
I like that the artwork is as frazzled as Annie is; it's a great way to show what she's really feeling while she's all frozen up like that. Agreeing with whomever it was who said that she's probably experiencing dissociation right now.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2015 14:17:22 GMT
Kuraimizu, the formatting on your post makes it look like poetry! I thought it was song lyrics at first!
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CloudedAtTheMoment
Junior Member
Anyone watch Steven Universe? ....oh, well...great show!
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Post by CloudedAtTheMoment on Mar 19, 2015 16:30:25 GMT
Just dropped by to share everyone's teeth pulling rage with Annie's dear father. But fureal guys, I mean just like..bruh.
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Post by nero on Mar 19, 2015 16:46:24 GMT
Well in a way her skin is just makeup so she could go in her fire elemental form to class.
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Post by matoyak on Mar 19, 2015 18:07:30 GMT
The UK doesn't have a specific term called 'high school'. We have Primary school (Ages 5-11, years 1-6), then Secondary school (Ages 11-16, years 7-11). At 16 years old school stops being compulsory. After that you can either have 6th form or college, both of which are ages 16-18. Many newer schools for this age group are called colleges, older ones tend to be called 6th form. 6th form is an archaic name corresponding to the old school system, where secondary school started at age 13 and the numbers started again from 1. That system was replaced decades ago but the name has stuck around. I suppose the american term 'high school' corresponds to the later secondary school and 6th form, but in terms of the way it is used in the UK, would usually just refer to those between 16-18. At 18 you can start applying for university, thankfully the word university seems to mean the same everywhere! As for Annie's age, they have just started year 10 right? That would make her 14. Okay. So, this is all just a question of different terminology in different countries. "High school", I thought referred to 6th form or "college" stage. The issue you'll run into there is that "college" stage is different between America and Britain. The equivalent of 6th form in America IS High School, if I understood philman right about the ages. It isn't common for someone to graduate out of High School before 17 or 18 (though it can be done). University and College are kind of synonymous in America. They're both "institutions for higher learning", and the difference is often gray. Typically a University is older and will always be a 4 year institution. A college is typically newer and is often a Junior College (a place with 2 year degree plans [Associates, rather than Bachelors]) or Community College (also a 2 year institution, typically considered a lower tier/quality than Junior Colleges, which are considered lesser to Colleges, which are [sometimes] considered lesser to Universities). If someone in America is in College, they're almost guaranteed to be 18+, and are usually between 18 and 24, though more and more the ages are going up. |
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Post by zimmyzims on Mar 19, 2015 19:15:21 GMT
Okay. So, this is all just a question of different terminology in different countries. "High school", I thought referred to 6th form or "college" stage. The issue you'll run into there is that "college" stage is different between America and Britain. The equivalent of 6th form in America IS High School, if I understood philman right about the ages. It isn't common for someone to graduate out of High School before 17 or 18 (though it can be done). University and College are kind of synonymous in America. They're both "institutions for higher learning", and the difference is often gray. Typically a University is older and will always be a 4 year institution. A college is typically newer and is often a Junior College (a place with 2 year degree plans [Associates, rather than Bachelors]) or Community College (also a 2 year institution, typically considered a lower tier/quality than Junior Colleges, which are considered lesser to Colleges, which are [sometimes] considered lesser to Universities). If someone in America is in College, they're almost guaranteed to be 18+, and are usually between 18 and 24, though more and more the ages are going up. This all I know. The point is, apparently the whole terminology is very different in UK, and hence all the confusion. |
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esc7
New Member
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Post by esc7 on Mar 19, 2015 20:09:29 GMT
The main reason I don't believe this is a dream is that it would be ... cheap. Previously when there's been a dream-like element to the story, it hasn't affected the importance of depicted events. But if this turns out to have been a dream I can't see how that would be the case- it would be a copout. I've never felt cheated by this comic and I don't expect to. Tom hasn't gone for the cheap emotional manipulation without payoff in the past, why would he start now? I personally think that this is Annie's nightmare, and it's being brought upon because she knows her father is returning to the court. In that case it is furthering the story because it's setting up an expectation and contrast to a near-future plot event. As for it being emotional manipulation, it really has only been ONE PAGE of insane ridiculous Anthony Carver being a jerk to his daughter. Think about it. One page shows the back of his head and name, and we were even wondering if it was truly him. Then one page of the bomb dropping and blowing every expectation we had of him into super-jerk mode (we're still debating it over 10 forum pages) Then the very next page we have some sort of wonky art / reality slipping thing going on indicating that something isn't very normal. If this went on longer I might agree with you about it being a copout, but this scene is almost the smallest you could even write a dream sequence. As for emotionally manipulating us...remember the first page showing Jenny? Tom knows our expectations and I enjoy how he messes with them. |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Mar 19, 2015 23:56:12 GMT
... As for emotionally manipulating us...remember the first page showing Jenny? Tom knows our expectations and I enjoy how he messes with them. Yeah, like that time Tom set us up with pages based on the SITCOM Friends, and then punched us right in the emotional gut! |
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Post by SilverbackRon on Mar 20, 2015 0:30:30 GMT
Poor Annie.  I feel so bad for her. I wish I could give her a hug. Well, except for the fact that she is a 2 dimensional projection on my computer screen. That makes it kinda hard.  As for Tom setting us up with expectations of what kind of jerkass Anthony is, I saw this page recently and it's clear authorial intent that Antimony's father is to be perceived as a dis-likable character. The current chapter makes it oh-so-clear that is spot on. As far as the dream/reality question, I don't see any hint that this is to be seen as a dream. This is real, and it sucks. But well written suckage, I must say. |
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Post by OGRuddawg on Mar 20, 2015 4:04:09 GMT
Annie actually looks less calm than I thought she would be, considering how stoic she can be. She shows a lot more emotion than when she first got to the Court. And yeah, having to wear a mask of outer calmness is difficult and sucks. I speak from experience.
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I feel so bad for her. I wish I could give her a hug.
