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Post by Phoenix on Feb 20, 2015 20:14:51 GMT
People seem to still be debating whether or not the hospital attendant is an ex-animal and of [insert gender], even though this was pointed out last thread.
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Post by machival on Feb 20, 2015 20:19:29 GMT
People seem to still be debating whether or not the hospital attendant is an ex-animal and of [insert gender], even though this was pointed out last thread. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1192
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Post by Per on Feb 20, 2015 20:53:00 GMT
I for one look forward to reptile person earning the copper figurine of appearanceness.
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Post by Phoenix on Feb 20, 2015 21:08:48 GMT
People seem to still be debating whether or not the hospital attendant is an ex-animal and of [insert gender], even though this was pointed out last thread. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1192Hmm, thanks for pointing that out. I wish the other poster had given some indication it was not true. :/
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Post by Sky Schemer on Feb 20, 2015 23:01:45 GMT
Calling it now, some fairies will fail the test, there won't be enough of them, so bunny will be reborn a girl to keep the balance. I think it's a little late for that if bunny's body has already been grown. Besides, if that happens, then bunny can't become Annie's boyfriend.
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Post by Sky Schemer on Feb 20, 2015 23:03:14 GMT
Hmm, thanks for pointing that out. I wish the other poster had given some indication it was not true. :/ Sorry. I figured it was obvious, but I guess I was wrong.
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Post by Sky Schemer on Feb 20, 2015 23:05:42 GMT
You know, for a little bit here, it baffled me why people kept calling the snake person a "him". Guess I'm more attracted to legs more than I thought. Made me feel really dumb when I went back and realized he had no breasts. All this gender confusion around M. Snake would be consistent with the fact that sexing a snake is not exactly trivial.
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Post by basser on Feb 20, 2015 23:21:17 GMT
The ridiculous focus on gender in the various discussions about this chapter annoys the hell out of me. What does it matter if the rabbit is a boy or a girl, or the snake person, or the fairies. These creatures are becoming a whole different species, I think they probably have a bit more on their mind than which genitals they end up with. Particularly in the case of things like reptiles and rodents, who have absolutely no concept of what we view as a gender divide because their reproductive cycles and functions are nothing like ours. What's the behavioural difference between a male and female snake? Can you differentiate between a boy rabbit and a girl rabbit on sight? No? Do you think rabbits can somehow intuitively tell the difference between boy and girl humans, then? Especially rabbits who've lived their lives in a magical forest isolated from civilization? How much do you really think you'd care about the state of your genitals if you were to suddenly become a hedgehog? You're a hedgehog now, it's not like sex was going to work how you're used to anyway.
Seems like folks all want to assign these useless sex-obsessed labels to everything lately. As if the only important facet of personal identity is reproductive preferences and the accoutrements thereof. Which is a banal notion in and of itself, of course, but which becomes doubly ridiculous when we're talking about a situation in which an adult rodent is being reborn as a juvenile ape. Maybe it's more pertinent to think about how difficult it's going to be for her to figure out how to use her thumbs rather than some vague notion of 'oh no she's going to be referred to by male pronouns', hm? I mean she doesn't even have a physical capacity to use human language, she is a rabbit.
Possibly yes this will all turn out to be some sort of tumblr-tastic "let's label everything and everyone whilst ironically bemoaning societal use of labels" nonsense, but if that happens I'll be disappointed and irritated. I'm much more interested in how a forest creature deals with transitioning into a whole new class of being. Don't much give a damn how sex factors into the equation.
/end pissy rant
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Post by sidhekin on Feb 20, 2015 23:42:30 GMT
You know, for a little bit here, it baffled me why people kept calling the snake person a "him". Guess I'm more attracted to legs more than I thought. Made me feel really dumb when I went back and realized he had no breasts. All this gender confusion around M. Snake would be consistent with the fact that sexing a snake is not exactly trivial. Well, reptiles lack such mammalian characteristics as mammaries, hair, specialized ear bones ... This one looks reptilian, and while we can't tell about ear bones, seems to lack both mammaries and hair. ... except for the eyebrows. Are they painted on? (I still say those hips are female. And hey, some reptiles do bear live young ...)
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Post by warrl on Feb 21, 2015 2:22:49 GMT
It's interesting that the snake guy doesn't seem to feel any connection to his charges, even though, at least if our assumptions are correct, he was one of those students, himself. He has to be reminded that they are people and doesn't seem at all bothered by the arbitrary gender shifts. Is this a case of comedic snake sociopathy, Court brainwashing, or are we wrong in assuming that he is a transformed animal? Curiouser and curiouser... At the point that M. Snake is dealing with them, it's quite plausible they are NOT considered people YET. The animals don't mind being males because they know well from their previous life that males are stronger and superior Not universally true, by any means. There are some species of fish where a little tiny male attaches to a huge female's bloodstream and he's basically a leech with gonads for the rest of his life. Several species of insects and most spiders, it's extremely common for the female to eat the male during or immediately after intercourse. Spotted hyena females are about 25% larger than males, and proportionately nastier and more vicious.
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Feb 21, 2015 5:06:53 GMT
Red and Blue both had clothing, but they didn't have wings. Making wings seems to be some kind of final exam for not-hollow fairies. Maybe all fairies start out not-hollow and the emerging desire to be human (or more/different from what they are) makes a fairy hollow. Who's to say they made that clothing though? Fairies wearing cloths they didn't make? That's cheating! Along with killing themselves, wearing wings they didn't make, and naming themselves. It just is not done, even though everything else seems fair game.
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Post by declination on Feb 21, 2015 5:52:11 GMT
Sure, the rabbit has probably got greater concerns than genitalia. If an animal has any perception of gender identity at all it's probably wildly different from that of a human, though given the personification of nonhuman beings in this story I wouldn't be remotely surprised if it wasn't. If the animals don't care about sex and gender, though, or if they care in a different way from the Court's norm, I would want that to be addressed. If they're just swinging with what they're assigned because they don't mind any way I want that to be acknowledged. If they're uncomfortable or dysphoric I want to see how it's dealt with. The fact that the rabbit's sex is going to change has been brought up multiple times, and if that culminates in the sort of handwave I've come to expect - not necessarily from this writer, but from writers dealing with the possibility of transgender characters in general - I'm going to be very disappointed in Siddell's storytelling. Hopefully we'll see both exploration of the concept of gender identity and of the major form change, particularly where both of them overlap with the societal shift from the Forest to the Court and from whatever society horned rabbits and fairies have to that of a human school. The fact that one subject - the one more familiar to many of us - is being discussed more on the forum doesn't mean it's going to be (or that it should be) the only focus of the chapter.
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Post by SilverbackRon on Feb 21, 2015 6:38:09 GMT
The fact that the rabbit's sex is going to change has been brought up multiple times <snip> I had to quote this. Tom wouldn't bring this up if it wasn't going to be important in the story in some way. Yes, Chekhov's gonads. It had to be said.
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Post by basser on Feb 21, 2015 6:54:17 GMT
The fact that the rabbit's sex is going to change has been brought up multiple times, and if that culminates in the sort of handwave I've come to expect - not necessarily from this writer, but from writers dealing with the possibility of transgender characters in general - I'm going to be very disappointed in Siddell's storytelling. Hopefully we'll see both exploration of the concept of gender identity and of the major form change, particularly where both of them overlap with the societal shift from the Forest to the Court and from whatever society horned rabbits and fairies have to that of a human school. The fact that one subject - the one more familiar to many of us - is being discussed more on the forum doesn't mean it's going to be (or that it should be) the only focus of the chapter. But the point is that it's not a bloody handwave to choose not to put focus on something that doesn't matter. And despite how much of a big silly deal it's been made of lately gender is absolutely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Blah blah blah it's important to some people whatever. I don't care. It shouldn't be. One's personal identity should never be dependent on something so petty and inconsequential as their binary reproductive role. The difference in genders on a biological level is so minuscule as to be absurd - you can change the behaviour of the entire system with a single hormone, for goodness' sake. That is the very definition of an unimportant physical trait. And just because a bunch of young people are preoccupied with applying these stupid arbitrary labels to themselves suddenly the rest of us have to pander to them. Absurd. This "huge under-represented issue" being "handwaved" by those disappointing storytellers is nothing new, as humans have been sliding merrily along a continuum of gender expectations for the entirety of history, and it is appallingly segregationist in the fantastic range of language it's invented to put people into nice little boxes. "Genderqueer" and "male-presenting" and "pansexual", it's literally nothing but making new categories. A further breaking up of the divisions we already had that were ridiculous to begin with because at the end of the day we're all the same 99.9% genetically identical hairless apes. Oh, no, you're less than a tenth of a percent different to me. Let's invent a word so we'll never forget that. God forbid we ever look past our insignificant variations and recognize the potential in unifying as a species. I just really hate that everyone cares so much about something so patently frivolous when there are serious metaphysical questions to be discussed. And to me having a specific focus on transgenderism like some sort of stupid diversity special would be a disappointing failure in storytelling. We have a chance here to explore the intrinsic global kinship of the human condition on both the physical and spiritual level but instead let's all talk about sex. Ugh. Basically the internet is being every bit as childishly simpleminded as I've come to expect. What a surprise.
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Post by machival on Feb 21, 2015 6:57:44 GMT
All this gender confusion around M. Snake would be consistent with the fact that sexing a snake is not exactly trivial. Well, reptiles lack such mammalian characteristics as mammaries, hair, specialized ear bones ... This one looks reptilian, and while we can't tell about ear bones, seems to lack both mammaries and hair. ... except for the eyebrows. Are they painted on? (I still say those hips are female. And hey, some reptiles do bear live young ...) I don't find the hips thing compelling, myself. Snake dude's mannerisms are definitely feminine though, and he seems to be wearing that blue cloth specifically to give a look reminiscent of longer hair.
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Post by arf on Feb 21, 2015 11:27:52 GMT
Pretty close. I'm wondering if we'll see green fairy's totem here as a last minute addition. My guess is that Green isn't hollow. Â The hollow vs not-hollow fairy thing confuses me, but the hollow fairies we've seen (Red and Blue) knew they wanted to be human. Â Green didn't ask about becoming human along with her friend leading me to guess that Green is a not-hollow fairy. That had occurred to me. I suppose I'm speculating on how to make green fairy a recurring character: she's interesting enough (although, so was Hetty.) Nice point about Smitty's prior chat with the snake with connections.
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Post by TBeholder on Feb 21, 2015 15:42:29 GMT
Kinda wonder what that gas is. Possibly nitrogen, if there's superconductive gear, such as MRI, though of course there also can be miniaturized ether syphons or something like that just to create correct environment in the jars and make totems on top work in a prepeatable fashion. And why snake guy, presumably mostly human, doesn't need a mask. Lower oxygen requirement plus individual adaptation? Their bodies are basically genetically engineered human-shaped clones. I wouldn't put it past the Court to modify them in some way, if that benefits their agenda. Hmm, yeah, my mind is in a strange place right now... Perhaps that's part of what totems are supposed to do. Tweak a basic human body into something comfortable for the specific creatures.
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Post by machival on Feb 21, 2015 17:32:33 GMT
Kinda wonder what that gas is. Possibly nitrogen, if there's superconductive gear, such as MRI, though of course there also can be miniaturized ether syphons or something like that just to create correct environment in the jars and make totems on top work in a prepeatable fashion. And why snake guy, presumably mostly human, doesn't need a mask. Lower oxygen requirement plus individual adaptation? Their bodies are basically genetically engineered human-shaped clones. I wouldn't put it past the Court to modify them in some way, if that benefits their agenda. Hmm, yeah, my mind is in a strange place right now... Perhaps that's part of what totems are supposed to do. Tweak a basic human body into something comfortable for the specific creatures. The tweaking thing would definitely explain why peeps like fish guy look the way they do.
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Post by SilverbackRon on Feb 21, 2015 17:50:12 GMT
I too was wondering about what kind of gas is in the room. Some kind of coolant?
But look at Smitty in panel 3. He is taking OFF his hoodie before going into the room. And by panel 6 Annie has broken into a sweat. This room isn't super-cooled, it is very hot. No wonder M Snake is so perfect for the job. Snakes work best in hot temperatures.
So that could be some kind of coolant leaking out because they use so much? Or just accumulating steam perhaps.
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Post by warrl on Feb 21, 2015 18:06:35 GMT
In panel 6, Annie is wearing a pale-reddish-brownish top. In the panel directly above it, she's clearly wearing a blue top. Also the strap for her oxygen tank changes from green to tan.
Whatever the gas in that room is, it absorbs green light.
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Post by SilverbackRon on Feb 21, 2015 18:42:15 GMT
In panel 6, Annie is wearing a pale-reddish-brownish top. In the panel directly above it, she's clearly wearing a blue top. Also the strap for her oxygen tank changes from green to tan. Whatever the gas in that room is, it absorbs green light. And M Snake's clothes have changed from green scrubs to a tan color in the last panel as well.
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Post by goldenknots on Feb 21, 2015 18:46:23 GMT
In panel 6, Annie is wearing a pale-reddish-brownish top. In the panel directly above it, she's clearly wearing a blue top. Also the strap for her oxygen tank changes from green to tan. Whatever the gas in that room is, it absorbs green light. And M Snake's clothes have changed from green scrubs to a tan color in the last panel as well. Or it could be the light is different in there.
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Post by SilverbackRon on Feb 21, 2015 19:03:16 GMT
And M Snake's clothes have changed from green scrubs to a tan color in the last panel as well. Or it could be the light is different in there. Agreed. The green & blue colors on the headscarf is still visible, and faintly on the upper portions the the shirt/blouse. Perhaps there is some golden light shining upward from the cloning tanks?
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Post by warrl on Feb 21, 2015 19:07:53 GMT
Hm... not much green light in the room? Plants are green because they *don't* absorb green light (as much as other colors). So if you're producing artificial light for plant health, you don't need much green in your light spectrum and it would be more energy-efficient to not provide much green light.
Are these bodies growing via photosynthesis?
Edit: that's not obviously consistent with the apparently-small windows in the cases.
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Post by sidhekin on Feb 21, 2015 20:38:23 GMT
Possibly nitrogen, if there's superconductive gear, such as MRI, though of course there also can be miniaturized ether syphons or something like that just to create correct environment in the jars and make totems on top work in a prepeatable fashion. Lower oxygen requirement plus individual adaptation? Perhaps that's part of what totems are supposed to do. Tweak a basic human body into something comfortable for the specific creatures. The tweaking thing would definitely explain why peeps like fish guy look the way they do. Have we actually seen the fish guy's body? I only recall seeing him in the Ether.
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Post by Rasselas on Feb 21, 2015 20:39:35 GMT
Thank you for writing this and for existing.
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Post by warrl on Feb 21, 2015 21:14:17 GMT
Personally I would like to see more genderfluid or transgender *minor* - even *background* - characters in stories that are *not* about gender identity or sexuality.
Although I'm not sure how to go about making a visibly transgender background character in such a story. I mean, in most cases you'd have no way of knowing that Nurse #3 is or isn't transgender, because that character will never get that much focus. Genderfluid is easier: if on different occasions it's identifiably the same character but in an identifiably different gender-presentation, and there's no obvious "ordinary" explanation such as Halloween costumes...
In real life such characters DO occur, and they typically ARE minor/background characters in the lives of most of the people who are in their general vicinity.
Whether Gunnerkrigg Court is the right story for that to happen... depends entirely on how it's done and whether Tom makes it work (assuming he decides to try). There's no reason why the story desperately needs it, and there's no reason to think that it would seem out of place.
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Post by machival on Feb 21, 2015 21:26:44 GMT
The tweaking thing would definitely explain why peeps like fish guy look the way they do. Have we actually seen the fish guy's body? I only recall seeing him in the Ether. Looking back, nah we haven't. We never got a good look at most of red's class in the real world.
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Post by axelle on Feb 21, 2015 22:23:20 GMT
Hi everyone! Longtime reader and lurker, as well as bona fide transgender person. Regarding the big silly deal:
Forty-one percent of transgender/gender non-conforming people report attempting suicide, compared to 4.6% of the overall U.S. population. Among other things, we face much higher rates of homelessness, violence, and employment discrimination. Eight transgender women have been victims of alleged murders in the United States since the beginning of the year.
I'm looking forward to seeing what Tom has in store.
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Post by fish on Feb 22, 2015 6:25:01 GMT
Personally I would like to see more genderfluid or transgender *minor* - even *background* - characters in stories that are *not* about gender identity or sexuality. Although I'm not sure how to go about making a visibly transgender background character in such a story. I mean, in most cases you'd have no way of knowing that Nurse #3 is or isn't transgender, because that character will never get that much focus. Genderfluid is easier: if on different occasions it's identifiably the same character but in an identifiably different gender-presentation, and there's no obvious "ordinary" explanation such as Halloween costumes... In real life such characters DO occur, and they typically ARE minor/background characters in the lives of most of the people who are in their general vicinity. Whether Gunnerkrigg Court is the right story for that to happen... depends entirely on how it's done and whether Tom makes it work (assuming he decides to try). There's no reason why the story desperately needs it, and there's no reason to think that it would seem out of place. Would Shell count as genderfluid? Unfortunately we don't know anything about her, yet... By the way: Two webcomics featuring transgender side-characters are Sister Clair and Witchy (I'm sure there are more out there). One webcomic featuring a transgeder main character is Trial of the Sun (I'm not so sure there are many more of those).
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