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Post by Gotolei on Feb 20, 2015 8:06:03 GMT
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Post by arf on Feb 20, 2015 8:07:25 GMT
I think you got in first, but have the number wrong.
[edit: 1478, is good]
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Post by Chancellor on Feb 20, 2015 8:08:52 GMT
Gosh, it took ya'll so long *I* almost made the thread myself.
I just realized that technician doesn't have any hair, and that the blue-green thing appears to be some kind of wrap.
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Post by Gotolei on Feb 20, 2015 8:12:04 GMT
Kinda wonder what that gas is. And why snake guy, presumably mostly human, doesn't need a mask. Maybe it just smells bad? I think you got in first, but have the number wrong. [edit: 1478, is good]  |
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Post by Chancellor on Feb 20, 2015 8:14:44 GMT
Kinda wonder what that gas is. And why snake guy, presumably mostly human, doesn't need a mask. Maybe it just smells bad? I think you got in first, but have the number wrong. [edit: 1478, is good] Woah. I wonder if it might be to avoid certain contamination factors, but then again it makes little sense why they'd cover their mouths and not their hands, eyes, etc. |
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Post by Elysium on Feb 20, 2015 8:31:11 GMT
Calling it now, some fairies will fail the test, there won't be enough of them, so bunny will be reborn a girl to keep the balance.
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Post by baphomet on Feb 20, 2015 8:36:00 GMT
Lots of questions here.
I wonder if that leads to any gender identity issues. The rabbit preferred being called she before, even though she said she was okay with being changed--does the change in body come with a free change in self-perception, or is she always just going to have to accept that she agreed to live as a different sex as a cost of becoming human? I also didn't realize it was an even split. I wonder who enforces that rule, and why, and what happens when more animals than faeries want to be changed or vice/versa. And regarding the sex of our ophidian tour guide here, presumably that's a male body since he appears to have originated from a snake, and animals all become male. He's got wide hips for a dude of his absurd lanky tallness, though.
And wow, the court has already had the ability to grow lifeless facsimiles of human bodies from scratch? That seems like 90% of what Kat was trying unsuccessfully to do before. If the CPU of one of Diego's golems and the ether totem thingy from a forest denizen both act as the animating essence of their respective, otherwise-lifeless corporeal husks, it seems like swapping one for the other is just an interface issue--she just needs to install the right drivers, not build a whole new set of hardware. If she perfected that, she could be plugging robot brains into human bodies, or human brains into robot bodies. But maybe we don't want to go that sci-fi.
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pasko
Full Member
Objection!
Posts: 224
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Post by pasko on Feb 20, 2015 8:38:26 GMT
Interestingly enough, snake guy doesn't need a breathing mask.
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Omnium
Junior Member
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Post by Omnium on Feb 20, 2015 8:46:07 GMT
Longer answer: Animals who become humans at the court become males. Word of Tom confirms that. Ignoring that statistically 50% of said animals would have been female. I question how assigning these people a gender without taking into account the animal/person in question does not have unfortunate (and unintentional) implications. Especially given that animals have at least some degree of intelligence in the GKC universe. The only in-universe answers for why every animal coming to the court becomes a male human would be if every animal is male (biologically or otherwise), or whomever handles the transformation (whether that be the Court or RotD) has a bias towards making animals male humans (which again has some implications).
The out of of universe reason is that Tom wanted there to be a fairly even split of males to females in Foley and made the decision that all animals become male to balance out the fairies and didn't think about it any further.Well waddayaknow, I was right. The out of universe reason is the same as the in-universe one. The court gives more fucks about an even gender distribution than the gender of the animals they transfer. This also doesn't address the issue of why Faeries' genders are respected 100% of the time and not animals. True, it's not a bias in terms of prejudice which is what I thought it would be at the time but 'a systematic error introduced into sampling or testing by selecting or encouraging one outcome or answer over others' fits so I'm counting it. |
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Trism
Full Member
Blink and you'll miss it.
Posts: 125
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Post by Trism on Feb 20, 2015 8:55:11 GMT
Some of the machines already have totems in place! How long do they wait in tiny wooden hell?
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Post by dliessmgg on Feb 20, 2015 11:12:30 GMT
I just realized that technician doesn't have any hair, and that the blue-green thing appears to be some kind of wrap. Random guess, but might that guy rather have been a molerat than a snake? |
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Post by arf on Feb 20, 2015 11:26:10 GMT
Calling it now: rows and rows of Kat-prototype-like goop. Now we know where she got her raw materials! Pretty close. I'm wondering if we'll see green fairy's totem here as a last minute addition. |
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Post by Lightice on Feb 20, 2015 11:34:41 GMT
It's interesting that the snake guy doesn't seem to feel any connection to his charges, even though, at least if our assumptions are correct, he was one of those students, himself. He has to be reminded that they are people and doesn't seem at all bothered by the arbitrary gender shifts. Is this a case of comedic snake sociopathy, Court brainwashing, or are we wrong in assuming that he is a transformed animal? Curiouser and curiouser... I just realized that technician doesn't have any hair, and that the blue-green thing appears to be some kind of wrap. To be fair, we can't actually see if he's got hair or not. |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Feb 20, 2015 12:08:50 GMT
And there is the Chapter thumbnail (the misty vapors, bottom center of panel 5). Snake doesn't need a mask, so that supports sidhekin's speculation that Snake is not a former fairy/animal. Transformed fairies/animals are human and need to breath just like Annie and Smitty. If Snake is a human-like creature, then that may help explain the limited emotional connection to the incoming Foley students. I guessed that Snake might be a Pureblood Yuan-Ti, but copyright issues may keep Tom from using that specific name. I have faith that our socially awkward Annie will bluntly ask Snake what he/she/it actually is. Maybe they will duel over who can put their foot furtherest into their mouth. |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Feb 20, 2015 12:22:28 GMT
Calling it now: rows and rows of Kat-prototype-like goop. Now we know where she got her raw materials! Pretty close. I'm wondering if we'll see green fairy's totem here as a last minute addition. My guess is that Green isn't hollow. The hollow vs not-hollow fairy thing confuses me, but the hollow fairies we've seen (Red and Blue) knew they wanted to be human. Green didn't ask about becoming human along with her friend leading me to guess that Green is a not-hollow fairy. |
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Post by fish on Feb 20, 2015 12:55:15 GMT
Pretty close. I'm wondering if we'll see green fairy's totem here as a last minute addition. My guess is that Green isn't hollow. The hollow vs not-hollow fairy thing confuses me, but the hollow fairies we've seen (Red and Blue) knew they wanted to be human. Green didn't ask about becoming human along with her friend leading me to guess that Green is a not-hollow fairy. There is a "maturing process" to the fairies. "They come of age when they are able to make their own clothes". Green had some presumably self-made clothes, so I assume she was "of age". Maybe the "coming of age" thing fixes the "hollow fairy" thing? Maybe the "empty, white eyes" thing vs. the "grey iris" thing is also an effect of the "coming of age" thing? (There are entirely too many "things" and "quotation marks" in my "sentences".)I wonder if that leads to any gender identity issues. The rabbit preferred being called she before, even though she said she was okay with being changed--does the change in body come with a free change in self-perception, or is she always just going to have to accept that she agreed to live as a different sex as a cost of becoming human? Our perception of the human sex and gender is heavily influenced by all the implications it carries in our social life. I doubt the animals have any idea about those implications. I don't think they worry about dress codes and gender identifyers. But don't get me wrong! I'm all for exploring a genderidentity storyline in the comic! Maybe Tom will go into depth with this, that would be cool! |
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Post by buzzybuzz on Feb 20, 2015 13:44:43 GMT
Lots of questions here. I wonder if that leads to any gender identity issues. The rabbit preferred being called she before, even though she said she was okay with being changed--does the change in body come with a free change in self-perception, or is she always just going to have to accept that she agreed to live as a different sex as a cost of becoming human? I also didn't realize it was an even split. I wonder who enforces that rule, and why, and what happens when more animals than faeries want to be changed or vice/versa. And regarding the sex of our ophidian tour guide here, presumably that's a male body since he appears to have originated from a snake, and animals all become male. He's got wide hips for a dude of his absurd lanky tallness, though. And wow, the court has already had the ability to grow lifeless facsimiles of human bodies from scratch? That seems like 90% of what Kat was trying unsuccessfully to do before. If the CPU of one of Diego's golems and the ether totem thingy from a forest denizen both act as the animating essence of their respective, otherwise-lifeless corporeal husks, it seems like swapping one for the other is just an interface issue--she just needs to install the right drivers, not build a whole new set of hardware. If she perfected that, she could be plugging robot brains into human bodies, or human brains into robot bodies. But maybe we don't want to go that sci-fi. I was thinking the same thing, actually got me to finally log back in to discuss this xD (I've just been a lurker if I want to see people's theories, I never have anything good to add). I really hope this is an opportunity to show some trans people. Being trans myself, I'll be sad if it's just some typical bs. But given the snake person (I read them as a girl, I realized on this page and reading the comments here that their body is a guy, though I retain that they might be a girl and we don't know) looks pretty andro and the way this is being shown, also knowing Tom, that it wont be. Here's hoping. (If anyone is curious especially as proboards doesn't have a "none" option I'm agender/genderqueer) |
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Post by kalechibki on Feb 20, 2015 13:45:35 GMT
Lots of questions here. I wonder if that leads to any gender identity issues. The rabbit preferred being called she before, even though she said she was okay with being changed--does the change in body come with a free change in self-perception, or is she always just going to have to accept that she agreed to live as a different sex as a cost of becoming human? I also didn't realize it was an even split. I wonder who enforces that rule, and why, and what happens when more animals than faeries want to be changed or vice/versa. Some of the machines already have totems in place! How long do they wait in tiny wooden hell? While I don't think we have an answer for how long - I think you inadvertently answered Baphomet's question. They hold them as long as they need to, so that they can even out the numbers. I really hope that our friends stuck in rectangular prisms have no sense of time. I really really really hope so. And regarding the sex of our ophidian tour guide here, presumably that's a male body since he appears to have originated from a snake, and animals all become male. He's got wide hips for a dude of his absurd lanky tallness, though. You know, for a little bit here, it baffled me why people kept calling the snake person a "him". Guess I'm more attracted to legs more than I thought. Made me feel really dumb when I went back and realized he had no breasts. And who needs a mask when your nose holes are just for show! |
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Post by buzzybuzz on Feb 20, 2015 13:47:14 GMT
Lots of questions here. I wonder if that leads to any gender identity issues. The rabbit preferred being called she before, even though she said she was okay with being changed--does the change in body come with a free change in self-perception, or is she always just going to have to accept that she agreed to live as a different sex as a cost of becoming human? I also didn't realize it was an even split. I wonder who enforces that rule, and why, and what happens when more animals than faeries want to be changed or vice/versa. Some of the machines already have totems in place! How long do they wait in tiny wooden hell? While I don't think we have an answer for how long - I think you inadvertently answered Baphomet's question. They hold them as long as they need to, so that they can even out the numbers. I really hope that our friends stuck in rectangular prisms have no sense of time. I really really really hope so. And regarding the sex of our ophidian tour guide here, presumably that's a male body since he appears to have originated from a snake, and animals all become male. He's got wide hips for a dude of his absurd lanky tallness, though. You know, for a little bit here, it baffled me why people kept calling the snake person a "him". Guess I'm more attracted to legs more than I thought. Made me feel really dumb when I went back and realized he had no breasts. And who needs a mask when your nose holes are just for show! Good to see I'm not the only one, though I do retain that they might not be a boy. I'm going to use gender neutral pronouns till we get confirmation. |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Feb 20, 2015 14:02:51 GMT
My guess is that Green isn't hollow. The hollow vs not-hollow fairy thing confuses me, but the hollow fairies we've seen (Red and Blue) knew they wanted to be human. Green didn't ask about becoming human along with her friend leading me to guess that Green is a not-hollow fairy. There is a "maturing process" to the fairies. "They come of age when they are able to make their own clothes". Green had some presumably self-made clothes, so I assume she was "of age". Maybe the "coming of age" thing fixes the "hollow fairy" thing? Maybe the "empty, white eyes" thing vs. the "grey iris" thing is also an effect of the "coming of age" thing? (There are entirely too many "things" and "quotation marks" in my "sentences".) both had clothing, but they didn't have wings. Making wings seems to be some kind of final exam for not-hollow fairies. Maybe all fairies start out not-hollow and the emerging desire to be human (or more/different from what they are) makes a fairy hollow. |
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Post by Sauzels on Feb 20, 2015 15:26:45 GMT
There is a "maturing process" to the fairies. "They come of age when they are able to make their own clothes". Green had some presumably self-made clothes, so I assume she was "of age". Maybe the "coming of age" thing fixes the "hollow fairy" thing? Maybe the "empty, white eyes" thing vs. the "grey iris" thing is also an effect of the "coming of age" thing? (There are entirely too many "things" and "quotation marks" in my "sentences".) both had clothing, but they didn't have wings. Making wings seems to be some kind of final exam for not-hollow fairies. Maybe all fairies start out not-hollow and the emerging desire to be human (or more/different from what they are) makes a fairy hollow. Who's to say they made that clothing though? Actually, now that I think about the eyes, I wonder if that's just a style change. All the fairies on that bonus page still have hollow-looking eyes, including Ogee, who I'd have to imagine is of age. |
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Post by ctso74 on Feb 20, 2015 16:51:40 GMT
Some of the machines already have totems in place! How long do they wait in tiny wooden hell? More of a Limbo... or Pokeball. It seems the Court has got all the steps down to make a person. Only the original spark is unreplicable. That's kind of what Kat is trying to do, which might explain the Court's interest in not interfering (rather than incompetence or apathy). Again, it makes me wonder how the first robots were made. Or rather, what was sacrificed to make them. I've changed my original impression, and I'm going with lizard instead of snake. Maybe salamander. I thought the head-wrap might symbolize a cobra's hood. But, ze may be moving more like a lizard than a snake, especially with the limbs and all. Some lizard, especially salamanders, have regenerative abilities. |
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Post by fish on Feb 20, 2015 17:16:03 GMT
Actually, now that I think about the eyes, I wonder if that's just a style change. All the fairies on that bonus page still have hollow-looking eyes, including Ogee, who I'd have to imagine is of age. Ah! I forgot that page! And here I was hatching a theory about how the change of the eyes represents the merging of body and soul, which, in the forest, occurs when a fairy forms a significant relationship with another creature and gains a name (like in Green's case) and, in the Court, occurs when the soul is transferred manually into the new body (like in Red's case)... Damn you, city fairies! why do you not fit into my theoryyy! |
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Post by davidm on Feb 20, 2015 18:31:14 GMT
The animals don't mind being males because they know well from their previous life that males are stronger and superior (the female lions catch the prey, but the male lion gets to eat first). Fairies were always a little crazy, with their fashion obsessions "hair goes up", love-hate friendship, etc so of course they make the perfect women   |
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Post by baphomet on Feb 20, 2015 19:03:20 GMT
Our perception of the human sex and gender is heavily influenced by all the implications it carries in our social life. I doubt the animals have any idea about those implications. I don't think they worry about dress codes and gender identifyers. But don't get me wrong! I'm all for exploring a genderidentity storyline in the comic! Maybe Tom will go into depth with this, that would be cool! In retrospect I guess I meant sexual identity issues instead of gender identity issues. My understanding is that if the sex you perceive yourself as and the sex your hardware dictates don't match, it causes problems. Those problems are different than the problems caused when you feel like your gender and sex don't match. Someone who's Tumblr-er than me could probably say it better. The more important part of the sex thing I wanted to address is why the 50/50 rule is enforced at all. That seems like a totally arbitrary thing for the court to "demand balance" on. Also, given that faeries seem to have some sort of mind/body dichotomy going on and the animals don't, it seems weird that the animals are the ones being reassigned sexes while the faeries all stay female. It would make a lot more sense that a faerie could adjust to a sex change, since apparently their thinky-parts and their body parts are already decoupled and their reproductive methods seem to have nothing to do with sex (as a verb or a noun). Even if there is some real valid reason that there absolutely must be a 50/50 split between male and female at the court, it would seem like a much more reasonable method to keep the animals as the same sex they already saw themselves as and turn some of the faeries male to make the numbers even out (though I guess hermaphroditic animals like slugs sort of muddy the issue). Then they wouldn't have to wait until they had a perfectly even mix of animals and faeries. To clarify, when I say it would make a lot more sense, I mean based on what I know about it now. I'm not trying to say Tom did it wrong or anything like that, I'm just laying ground for speculation. |
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Post by ahriman on Feb 20, 2015 19:31:11 GMT
This also doesn't address the issue of why Faeries' genders are respected 100% of the time and not animals. True, it's not a bias in terms of prejudice which is what I thought it would be at the time but 'a systematic error introduced into sampling or testing by selecting or encouraging one outcome or answer over others' fits so I'm counting it. Also note that snake chick separates the students into "Fairies" and "everything else." I'm always wary of the court, but I'm sure the fairies get preferential treatment because they suit its agenda better. Did anyone else notice her fingers are extremely slender? I'm beginning to think she might be some kind of lizard rather than a snake, they're known for having long articulated fingers. Maybe a gecko? |
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Post by fish on Feb 20, 2015 19:45:05 GMT
Oh, good glob! All this talk about sex (verb or noun) has got me thinking: Can... can the former forest-creatures actually... reproduce... in a human fashion? Once they get older of course? Oh my glob...
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Post by machival on Feb 20, 2015 19:52:00 GMT
Oh, good glob! All this talk about sex (verb or noun) has got me thinking: Can... can the former forest-creatures actually... reproduce... in a human fashion? Once they get older of course? Oh my glob... I would assume that all their parts work. But here's another thing to consider: is it possible to have ether sex? |
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Post by fish on Feb 20, 2015 20:06:58 GMT
Oh, good glob! All this talk about sex (verb or noun) has got me thinking: Can... can the former forest-creatures actually... reproduce... in a human fashion? Once they get older of course? Oh my glob... I would assume that all their parts work. But here's another thing to consider: is it possible to have ether sex? Well, this definitely is an interesting thought... I'm not 100% convinced on the working parts though. Their bodies are basically genetically engineered human-shaped clones. I wouldn't put it past the Court to modify them in some way, if that benefits their agenda. Hmm, yeah, my mind is in a strange place right now... |
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Post by machival on Feb 20, 2015 20:11:46 GMT
I would assume that all their parts work. But here's another thing to consider: is it possible to have ether sex? Well, this definitely is an interesting thought... I'm not 100% convinced on the working parts though. Their bodies are basically genetically engineered human-shaped clones. I wouldn't put it past the Court to modify them in some way, if that benefits their agenda. Hmm, yeah, my mind is in a strange place right now... Well, infertility would be relatively easy for the court, but what would the motive be? They don't seem to have any particular problem with people like Surma reproducing, so why would they sabotage the fertility of their imports? |
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