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Post by Daedalus on Feb 4, 2015 8:00:39 GMT
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Post by Chancellor on Feb 4, 2015 8:02:10 GMT
Curiouser and curiouser.
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Post by arf on Feb 4, 2015 8:05:40 GMT
So fairies come with strings attached?
Annie sounds almost disappointed by this explanation.
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Post by zimmyzims on Feb 4, 2015 8:08:42 GMT
So, whether if there's some trouble getting the totem to the Court, or whether this chapter serves to explain some of GKC mythology. What I wonder, did Coyote just confirm that the amount of etheric life or souls in the gunnerverse seems to be constant, and the changes in the biological life is caused by a metempsychosis instead. Didn't he say that no genuinely new life can be created. Or is it different when the living beings recreate life themselves by cell division or by sexual reproduction? Is there a genuinely new soul created, or does it come from an ether pool, so to say?
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Post by Chancellor on Feb 4, 2015 8:23:32 GMT
So, whether if there's some trouble getting the totem to the Court, or whether this chapter serves to explain some of GKC mythology. What I wonder, did Coyote just confirm that the amount of etheric life or souls in the gunnerverse seems to be constant, and the changes in the biological life is caused by a metempsychosis instead. Didn't he say that no genuinely new life can be created. Or is it different when the living beings recreate life themselves by cell division or by sexual reproduction? Is there a genuinely new soul created, or does it come from an ether pool, so to say? In addition, Coyote's myths have mentioned a Great Spirit presumably even above himself. While Coyote presumably cannot create life, I suppose it may be possible that beings even more powerful than him can.
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Post by Daedalus on Feb 4, 2015 8:26:20 GMT
It's 23 minutes past the hour, with a page full of cool stuff to speculate on, and there are only three people who have responded
I AM DISAPPOINT, GENTLE FORUM-GOERS.
To me, honestly, this page feels like Tom copping out how none of this was mentioned when Red and Blue were transferred (since that would cause contradictions). Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course. Or he may surprise us and make this information extremely relevant in the future.
Perhaps that disconnect between mind/spirit and body is why Red and pals still hang out in the ether rather than their bodies in class.
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Post by noone3 on Feb 4, 2015 8:30:55 GMT
While Coyote presumably cannot create life, I suppose it may be possible that beings even more powerful than him can. Well, ordinary people do this on a daily basis, you know.
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Demonsul
New Member
Seven years a new member
Posts: 44
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Post by Demonsul on Feb 4, 2015 8:34:44 GMT
Expositiyote continues!
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Post by Daedalus on Feb 4, 2015 8:35:46 GMT
While Coyote presumably cannot create life, I suppose it may be possible that beings even more powerful than him can. Well, ordinary people do this on a daily basis, you know. Coyote can too: Now THERE is something I'd like to see a side-comic about.
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Post by Chancellor on Feb 4, 2015 8:45:42 GMT
"Once"
Hoboy.
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Post by Elysium on Feb 4, 2015 8:46:16 GMT
A clear explanation ? IN MY GUNNERKRIGG ? IMPOSSIBRU ! a page full of cool stuff to speculate on There's actually nothing to speculate on, only answers. Sweet, delicious answers.
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Post by Ophel on Feb 4, 2015 8:59:59 GMT
The discussion going does raise an interesting question of how new life acquires a soul. Specifically, what goes on during the conception of new life? Taking the example of humanity, what happens when a sperm cell and an egg cell merge and form a zygote? Will it get its soul then? Or will the soul come later, such as right before its exodus from its mother's womb? And yeah, where does the soul come from? This, I speculate, comes from the ether itself. Actually no. What is the ether? Is it made of humanity's imagination? Was this touched upon before? I don't remember. Edit: Daedalus I guess the reason why this wasn't brought up back then was simply because Annie didn't ask about the process back then. Also, it could be... well, this information may definitely be relevant in the future in especially explaining how Kat became how she will be in those premonitions about her being in a robotic body. Genuine spoiler here for the book series "The Secrets of the Immortal Nicholas Flamel". Honestly, with all this build-up, you'd think it's gonna end like how this particular book series ended, with one of the main characters being the source behind an ancient conspiracy that lead to himself become the most influential figure in that book series called "Marethyu".
Yes, time travel involved.
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Post by Daedalus on Feb 4, 2015 9:23:52 GMT
Genuine spoiler here for the book series "The Secrets of the Immortal Nicholas Flamel". Honestly, with all this build-up, you'd think it's gonna end like how this particular book series ended, with one of the main characters being the source behind an ancient conspiracy that lead to himself become the most influential figure in that book series called "Marethyu".
Yes, time travel involved. I would happily discuss this book series with you in a PM.
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Post by Ophel on Feb 4, 2015 9:31:20 GMT
Genuine spoiler here for the book series "The Secrets of the Immortal Nicholas Flamel". Honestly, with all this build-up, you'd think it's gonna end like how this particular book series ended, with one of the main characters being the source behind an ancient conspiracy that lead to himself become the most influential figure in that book series called "Marethyu".
Yes, time travel involved. I would happily discuss this book series with you in a PM. Sadly I didn't finish it. I haven't the access to them financially, etc. I tend to spoil things for myself, but that's because I get a little kick out of feeling slightly omniscient. Edit: And I'm impatient sometimes.
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pasko
Full Member
Objection!
Posts: 224
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Post by pasko on Feb 4, 2015 9:32:37 GMT
A clear explanation ? IN MY GUNNERKRIGG ? IMPOSSIBRU ! a page full of cool stuff to speculate on There's actually nothing to speculate on, only answers. Sweet, delicious answers. As my avatar says, Objection. It's always been a given that to destroy the body was Ysengrin's idea. Now we have evidence that this is not the case, as little fairies are BORN with the need of this procedure to change bodies. So even with Annie as a medium, probably fairies will still need to be smooshed to switch side. It is a bit conflicting with previous explanations.
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Post by Ophel on Feb 4, 2015 9:37:27 GMT
A clear explanation ? IN MY GUNNERKRIGG ? IMPOSSIBRU ! There's actually nothing to speculate on, only answers. Sweet, delicious answers. As my avatar says, Objection. It's always been a given that to destroy the body was Ysengrin's idea. Now we have evidence that this is not the case, as little fairies are BORN with the need of this procedure to change bodies. So even with Annie as a medium, probably fairies will still need to be smooshed to switch side. It is a bit conflicting with previous explanations. Well, maybe it was Ysengrin who enforced the rule that fairies must destroy their own bodies but not with their own hands? Edit: In a way, it's a kind of mercy, especially if a fairie can't bring herself to destroy her own body.
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Post by snoodette on Feb 4, 2015 9:45:39 GMT
So the fairies minds and spirits are already removed and waiting (presumably at the court?) and yet they still have their consciousness and personalities, and ability to retain memories of what happened to those bodies. Slightly confused by this, unless the minds and spirits have some intangible link to the bodies?
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Post by Ophel on Feb 4, 2015 10:10:13 GMT
So the fairies minds and spirits are already removed and waiting (presumably at the court?) and yet they still have their consciousness and personalities, and ability to retain memories of what happened to those bodies. Slightly confused by this, unless the minds and spirits have some intangible link to the bodies? It appears so, given their depiction in the page today. With ghose wispy smoky lines from the fairies and all.
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Post by foresterr on Feb 4, 2015 10:21:35 GMT
Eh, I'm confused a bit. Are all fairies hollow, or is it like a subspecies, or the fairies were hollow because they made a decision (although that by itself didn't change anything about their mind/spirit/body setup goes) and were waiting for the test to be completed?
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Post by Lightice on Feb 4, 2015 10:21:38 GMT
So, whether if there's some trouble getting the totem to the Court, or whether this chapter serves to explain some of GKC mythology. What I wonder, did Coyote just confirm that the amount of etheric life or souls in the gunnerverse seems to be constant, and the changes in the biological life is caused by a metempsychosis instead. Didn't he say that no genuinely new life can be created. Or is it different when the living beings recreate life themselves by cell division or by sexual reproduction? Is there a genuinely new soul created, or does it come from an ether pool, so to say? Well, we've seen before that when living creatures die, they go into the Ether, and become a part of the "background radiation", again. That would seem to imply to me that there's an absolute limited amount of Ether in the universe, though that pool from which they draw is probably a lot larger than the capacity of Earth to sustain. I imagine that the process is circular, like so many other things in nature. I wouldn't say that new life can't be created, based on what the Coyote said, but that the Ether is immutable. Like energy in the real world, it can't be created or destroyed, only shaped and manipulated. That doesn't mean that there can't be new life, just that the raw material is shared. The Coyote got the spirits of the Glass-Eyed Men from somewhere.
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Post by foresterr on Feb 4, 2015 10:26:01 GMT
The Coyote got the spirits of the Glass-Eyed Men from somewhere. Actually, I'm willing to bet glass eyed men had no souls/spirits at creation, and only "grown" them after Coyote got bored and discarded them. And that's parallel to what's happening with Court robots.
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Post by Ophel on Feb 4, 2015 10:29:59 GMT
I kinda now comprehend how amazing it is that Coyote can extract a soul and turn it into a totem. I wonder how that happens? And what's different in terms of ghosts? They can haunt instruments, yet it can't inhabit a new body.
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Post by snoodette on Feb 4, 2015 10:36:50 GMT
Ah, did't spot the wispy lines on my phone, that makes a bit more sense!
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Post by Gulby on Feb 4, 2015 10:52:00 GMT
I don't see it like the purpose of the fairy's souls being detached of their bodies is to crunch them and then be humans, but I rather see it linked to the fact that fairies are almost immortal in most of the mythology about it, and that, for example (Peter Pan told it), if someone says "I don't believe in fairies", one of them die. Yet, we can revive them by clapping our hands and say out loud that we believe in fairies. Maybe, to accomplish that, you need the soul to be detached from the body from the beginning ?... Don't know if that makes sense.
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Post by Elysium on Feb 4, 2015 12:08:43 GMT
It's always been a given that to destroy the body was Ysengrin's idea. But who gave that theory ? That's the thing, is it pure speculation or actually backed by in-comic evidence ? We know that the "passing" is the medium's job (Ys then Annie), but where was it stated that Ys made his own rules ?
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Post by csj on Feb 4, 2015 12:13:13 GMT
imagine being the being that created a species of suicide fairies
'maaaate, ya know what we should create? Like, a bunch o twerpy fairies that have to kill themselves' 'man that is so cray' 'nah mean, just for a change. An thay'd be all colourful like. And maybe they base their hierarchy on their hair' 'so, like, whether their hair is a certain colour.... or length, or maybe how far it goes up' 'the hair goes up' 'yep'
...
'mate, that is the best idea ever'
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Post by ctso74 on Feb 4, 2015 14:34:00 GMT
So the fairies minds and spirits are already removed and waiting (presumably at the court?) and yet they still have their consciousness and personalities, and ability to retain memories of what happened to those bodies. Slightly confused by this, unless the minds and spirits have some intangible link to the bodies? Yeah, I'm confused. So, do the fairies' Etheric forms cross the waters? What about our favorite ghost with a soul reaping sword? If the fairies can cross the Waters(some anti-Jeanne ability), I can see why the Court would give them their own house. In addition, Coyote's myths have mentioned a Great Spirit presumably even above himself. While Coyote presumably cannot create life, I suppose it may be possible that beings even more powerful than him can. Or an Etheric "soul pool"/"hive mind". So, whether if there's some trouble getting the totem to the Court, or whether this chapter serves to explain some of GKC mythology. What I wonder, did Coyote just confirm that the amount of etheric life or souls in the gunnerverse seems to be constant, and the changes in the biological life is caused by a metempsychosis instead. Didn't he say that no genuinely new life can be created. Or is it different when the living beings recreate life themselves by cell division or by sexual reproduction? Is there a genuinely new soul created, or does it come from an ether pool, so to say? Well, we've seen before that when living creatures die, they go into the Ether, and become a part of the "background radiation", again. That would seem to imply to me that there's an absolute limited amount of Ether in the universe, though that pool from which they draw is probably a lot larger than the capacity of Earth to sustain. I imagine that the process is circular, like so many other things in nature. I wouldn't say that new life can't be created, based on what the Coyote said, but that the Ether is immutable. Like energy in the real world, it can't be created or destroyed, only shaped and manipulated. That doesn't mean that there can't be new life, just that the raw material is shared. The Coyote got the spirits of the Glass-Eyed Men from somewhere. Maybe, it's like a leaky ceiling. If you have a crack in your roof, that's in the shape of Kermit the Frog, the water will leak through in the shape of Kermit. Time, or the leak itself, could change the shape of the crack and the shape the water takes. Perhaps, the nature of Ether (or its origin) means it pushes itself into new life, like water flowing down hill. Perhaps given time, the same goes for Glass-Eyed Men and robots to a degree. Then again, maybe when Coyote made the Glass-Eyed Men, he took some people's shadows and with it their lives.
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Post by machival on Feb 4, 2015 15:27:26 GMT
It's always been a given that to destroy the body was Ysengrin's idea. But who gave that theory ? That's the thing, is it pure speculation or actually backed by in-comic evidence ? We know that the "passing" is the medium's job (Ys then Annie), but where was it stated that Ys made his own rules ? Looking back, I don't see any mention of Ysengrin in the original conversation with red and blue. THough he does get mentioned later as the squisher of the fairies, it's implied that the only reason he did it was because they bugged him about it when he went down to investigate the downed tic-toc.
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Post by Daedalus on Feb 4, 2015 15:50:07 GMT
It's always been a given that to destroy the body was Ysengrin's idea. But who gave that theory ? That's the thing, is it pure speculation or actually backed by in-comic evidence ? We know that the "passing" is the medium's job (Ys then Annie), but where was it stated that Ys made his own rules ? Pretty sure it's from the WoT, or one of Tom's other answer repositories. There is no in-comic evidence (though he'd totally do that) but if I remember correctly, Tom has confirmed it outside of the comic.
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Post by zimmyzims on Feb 4, 2015 16:07:09 GMT
So, whether if there's some trouble getting the totem to the Court, or whether this chapter serves to explain some of GKC mythology. What I wonder, did Coyote just confirm that the amount of etheric life or souls in the gunnerverse seems to be constant, and the changes in the biological life is caused by a metempsychosis instead. Didn't he say that no genuinely new life can be created. Or is it different when the living beings recreate life themselves by cell division or by sexual reproduction? Is there a genuinely new soul created, or does it come from an ether pool, so to say? In addition, Coyote's myths have mentioned a Great Spirit presumably even above himself. While Coyote presumably cannot create life, I suppose it may be possible that beings even more powerful than him can. Good point. A very good point indeed. Did he not even suggest that some other creator exists who was able to create life. gosh golly he meant the time travelling Kat who originally created all life! So, whether if there's some trouble getting the totem to the Court, or whether this chapter serves to explain some of GKC mythology. What I wonder, did Coyote just confirm that the amount of etheric life or souls in the gunnerverse seems to be constant, and the changes in the biological life is caused by a metempsychosis instead. Didn't he say that no genuinely new life can be created. Or is it different when the living beings recreate life themselves by cell division or by sexual reproduction? Is there a genuinely new soul created, or does it come from an ether pool, so to say? Well, we've seen before that when living creatures die, they go into the Ether, and become a part of the "background radiation", again. That would seem to imply to me that there's an absolute limited amount of Ether in the universe, though that pool from which they draw is probably a lot larger than the capacity of Earth to sustain. I imagine that the process is circular, like so many other things in nature. I wouldn't say that new life can't be created, based on what the Coyote said, but that the Ether is immutable. Like energy in the real world, it can't be created or destroyed, only shaped and manipulated. That doesn't mean that there can't be new life, just that the raw material is shared. The Coyote got the spirits of the Glass-Eyed Men from somewhere. This is pretty much what I meant. Does the soul matter have to come from the ether pool, or does sexual reproduction, for example, simply create new life. There is a small difference, however, which is that I am not sure if Coyote really suggested that the amount of ether is constant. The possibility to create ether has been left open. Either creating more ether, or defining more content in it, one should be possible for Coyote himself to exist, and it is not impossible that both of them happen. I don't see it like the purpose of the fairy's souls being detached of their bodies is to crunch them and then be humans, but I rather see it linked to the fact that fairies are almost immortal in most of the mythology about it, and that, for example (Peter Pan told it), if someone says "I don't believe in fairies", one of them die. Yet, we can revive them by clapping our hands and say out loud that we believe in fairies. Maybe, to accomplish that, you need the soul to be detached from the body from the beginning ?... Don't know if that makes sense. Makes sense to me, if that means anything to you.
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