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Post by goldenknots on Dec 29, 2014 15:30:43 GMT
A couple of questions in my mind. One, is S13 working with the other Seraphs in secret, or do all the other robots know about that? Seems to me he's got a foot in both camps, but I can't tell if either side realizes he has divided loyalties. The other question, is he really that nuts, or is he just selfishly trying to accelerate the process that gives him a flesh body, as Kat has intended from the outset?
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Post by TBeholder on Dec 29, 2014 15:53:13 GMT
Also in dramatic overpseculation, Paz won't really be in Spain at all, but will actually get Paznapped by the Seraphs so they don't hear from her during Summer and she doesnt show up at the beginning of school. Becaue there's no internetz in Spain to keep in touch? A couple of questions in my mind. One, is S13 working with the other Seraphs in secret, or do all the other robots know about that? Seems to me he's got a foot in both camps, but I can't tell if either side realizes he has divided loyalties. What "divided loyalties"? He walks his own path. S13 became"robot prophet". The rest of Seraphs considered his ideas heresy, but ended up themseles convinced he's right back in Chapter 41. Which closes the issue. Now they may not agree on everything with other robots, or not quite see it the same way as S13, but they accept that he is indeed in position to teach others and they are to follow however they can. |
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Post by CoyoteReborn on Dec 29, 2014 15:54:48 GMT
Coyote is perfectly aware of the mayhem he's causing.  Now I can see how you [Robot] are the biggest and most harmful fool in that story (well, at this point), even bigger than Coyote.  I'm more harmful than that silly Robot any day! |
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Post by goldenknots on Dec 29, 2014 16:54:18 GMT
What "divided loyalties"? He walks his own path. S13 became"robot prophet". The rest of Seraphs considered his ideas heresy, but ended up themseles convinced he's right back in Chapter 41. Which closes the issue. Now they may not agree on everything with other robots, or not quite see it the same way as S13, but they accept that he is indeed in position to teach others and they are to follow however they can. He's with Shadow and the Robot King in the rescue. So, are all the robots on the same "side", or is he not being quite up front with His Majesty about his connection to the Seraphs? |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Dec 29, 2014 17:07:32 GMT
I think the plan was less about Paz, and more about giving Kat a taste of her possibilities. Paz (and probably her safety) were minor concerns. Plus, it pushed her towards making a preexisting robot into flesh. Which death would affect the Ether more; a newly made cyber-organic being, or a devoted believer given new life. Maybe, Robot's plan is to die for Kat, literally. A thought that came to me upon reading that: What use is an Angel, without a Demon? GC doesn't seem to need a villain so I'll say there's no necessity for them to become demonic to Kat's being angelic and that this is another "youthful misunderstanding" in the process of robotic development. But this chapter has been useful in the creation of robot stories, hasn't it? The tale of the robot ship that loved a sea-monster by itself is interesting, but then it dovetailed into the whole Antimony myth as well as finishing strong with the Angel herself and a heroic rescue by the robot king. There was even a good witch and a white wolf. That's the kind of stuff they'll need in the Gunnerverse if they're going to become "real" if my theory on etheric layering is correct. Oh, wow. I was expecting some Robot preaching, but I wasn't expecting it to be a motivator for the Seraphs. ...Does...does this make Robot the new "Diego"? I guess because they're not acting from emotional motives the robots are less capable of making decisions that fall prey to temper tantrums or other preference-for-immediate-gratification problems with their decision-making. Down the road they may add some emotion to their programming and then there would be trouble. We have not yet seen a reaction from the administration. That's worrying. I've been pondering the lack of supervision for a good while and I finally decided that the comic has slightly idealized its adolescent characters and the Court is just acting appropriate to that... I mean, just the lack of curtains on the portholes of the dorms when the students are learning to make robot drones should mean that there are questionable pics circulating of the entire student body... Many mad prophets have followed this well-worn path, and it leads to the shores of a sea of blood. You mean oil?  |
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Post by calpal on Dec 29, 2014 17:12:26 GMT
A couple of questions in my mind. One, is S13 working with the other Seraphs in secret, or do all the other robots know about that? Seems to me he's got a foot in both camps, but I can't tell if either side realizes he has divided loyalties. The other question, is he really that nuts, or is he just selfishly trying to accelerate the process that gives him a flesh body, as Kat has intended from the outset? I think the Seraphs and robots both follow Robot devoutly, but Seraphs are Seraphs. Robot was once a Seraph, but in his new body he appears as a regular Court robot, thus earning the trust of the regular robots. Judging by this page, however, I think we can safely say that Robot never stopped being a Seraph; if anything, he has been accelerated to the position of Dux Seraph, having orchestrated this whole event with the Seraphs and Ship all in cahoots. He's the leader of both, but the Court robots aren't aware of this. As for the second question... robots aren't imaginative. They're logical, with no sense of emotion and morality. I don't think he can be selfish; he rationalizes everything he's doing as love for Kat the Creator, the kind of love that was rationalized when Kat herself proclaimed that what Diego did to Jeanne was love. There's two ways he could see this: 1) with Kat in love with Paz, her work was put to the side and Robot, seeing her do such a thing, sees this love as equally bad as the one that caused Diego to suffer so much after condemning Jeanne to death. So his task was to right Kat's side-tracking and continue her divine work, without risking her to the lures of love; or 2) all the robots claim to love their creator, so when Kat said that what Diego did to Jeanne was a twisted form of love, the Seraphs assumed that behaving like Diego is a way of showing their love to Kat. And who would not want to show their love to their Creator, even if she does not return it? Did Jeanne love Diego? No, but Diego loved her, and that was all that mattered to Diego. Either interpretation means that the Seraphs could not be logically wrong: either they turned Kat away from the evils of love, or their love to the Creator is parallel to Diego's love for Jeanne. Morally wrong? You're god-damn right they are, but again: robots are NOT moral. They cannot feel regret like Diego did. And they can easily rationalize any regret away with this line: "It was worth it." |
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Post by Daedalus on Dec 29, 2014 17:12:43 GMT
Many mad prophets have followed this well-worn path, and it leads to the shores of a sea of blood. You mean oil?  |
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Post by Elysium on Dec 29, 2014 18:08:53 GMT
Twisting the sense of cherry-picked worlds from their worship figure to justify their shady schemes ?
I see that Robot has attentively read "The Prophet's handbook"
Seriously those omninous robot chapter stingers are becoming quite the tradition
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Post by kalechibki on Dec 29, 2014 18:14:24 GMT
And as for Robot - it seems more and more as if Annie's rescuing him was one of her biggest mistakes ever. The best we can say about the Seraphs (including Robot) is that they believe Kat has a Mission that must be fulfilled, which she can no more refuse than any other "Chosen One" in legend or fantasy - a Mission towards the robots, and which she must not turn aside from. Still, choosing to trap her entire year in Zimmy's world (even temporarily) is sign enough that something must really have gone wrong with them. Couldn't Robot have just pointed out to Kat that she was spending too much time with Paz, and not enough time on her work? Sure, Robot could have. But Robot hasn't been taught or shown to react in this manner. Robots make demands that they expect to be followed. That's clearly not going to work. Who is Robot's next best source for how to deal with Kat...Annie. And this whole plan has signs of poor-Annie thinking all over it. Where did Robot learn this style of negotiating, even before Kat's infamous, "It was worth it"? When Annie came back from the forest and tried to get into Kat's good graces. While I don't think Annie had ANYTHING to do with this, it still smacks of forest type wackiness. Also in dramatic over-speculation, Paz won't really be in Spain at all, but will actually get Paznapped by the Seraphs so they don't hear from her during Summer and she doesn't show up at the beginning of school. Then shiz goes down. So given what I just said...I really don't think that this is over-speculation. Going back a few pages...it also scares me that they were able to manipulate the response they wanted out of Kat. While we might see a gamble, they apparently didn't see that large of one. So as big as this event appears to us, to the robots, it's successful. I also couldn't agree more with Calpal's post if I tried. And for a moment of levity... We have not yet seen a reaction from the administration. That's worrying. In my mind, the student handbook robot rules missed one huge thing: Love for a parent/deity. Hopefully, that makes the next edition! |
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Post by Brother_Spartacus on Dec 29, 2014 18:34:32 GMT
While Robot is pretty crazy, he's not as bad as the Seraphim. Robot's like the pope, and the Seraphim are his crusaders. They follow his doctrine, but they also do crazy stuff that's out of his control.
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Post by stef1987 on Dec 29, 2014 18:49:30 GMT
I have only one thing to say Nooooooooo!  |
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Post by mordekai on Dec 29, 2014 20:15:54 GMT
"It was worth it..."
I hope you can say the same when the Machine Goddess manifests in all Her Righteous Glory and her Wrathful Justice smites you like Divine Lightning striking from Heaven.
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Post by Brother_Spartacus on Dec 29, 2014 20:23:59 GMT
By the way, Tom put lead where led should have been, as someone on the butt zone just pointed out.
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Post by Fishy on Dec 29, 2014 20:44:34 GMT
The most dangerous phrase a robot can learn is "The ends justify the means"
I still remember Robot trotting off to the forest, waving back "Bye mommy!". Things really have changed, huh?
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icekatze
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Nothing Important
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Post by icekatze on Dec 29, 2014 21:30:10 GMT
hi hi
Yet another warning becomes a lame excuse. I guess I'll put "love makes you act in strange ways," down on the list right next to "life's not fair, war is hell, and boys will be boys."
So disappointed.
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Post by todd on Dec 29, 2014 23:07:26 GMT
The Seraphs should be grateful that Kat's response to all this wasn't to smash everything in her workshop and vow to abandon robotics forever, then dedicate herself to ornithology instead. (Presumably they assumed that her dizzying taste of body-shaping would guard against that.)
I wonder how much, also, the Seraphs have picked up from the Court, which has been ready to take the "ends justify the means" approach more than once - all the way back to the murder of Jeanne.
Not to mention what will happen if/when Annie, Kat, and Shadow2 find out about Robot being part of the scheme.
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Post by Brother_Spartacus on Dec 29, 2014 23:54:46 GMT
The most dangerous phrase a robot can learn is "The ends justify the means" See? THAT's Machiavellian. |
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Post by machival on Dec 30, 2014 0:29:11 GMT
A couple of questions in my mind. One, is S13 working with the other Seraphs in secret, or do all the other robots know about that? Seems to me he's got a foot in both camps, but I can't tell if either side realizes he has divided loyalties. The other question, is he really that nuts, or is he just selfishly trying to accelerate the process that gives him a flesh body, as Kat has intended from the outset? I think he's just that nuts. Remember that the seraphs said S13 was doing this whole "prophecy of the angel" crap before they put him in the storage closet where annie found him. He's been the mad prophet for a long time, and who knows what sort of things he tried to lead robot society towards before he met the human cast. |
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Post by Daedalus on Dec 30, 2014 1:57:53 GMT
A couple of questions in my mind. One, is S13 working with the other Seraphs in secret, or do all the other robots know about that? Seems to me he's got a foot in both camps, but I can't tell if either side realizes he has divided loyalties. The other question, is he really that nuts, or is he just selfishly trying to accelerate the process that gives him a flesh body, as Kat has intended from the outset? I think he's just that nuts. Remember that the seraphs said S13 was doing this whole "prophecy of the angel" crap before they put him in the storage closet where annie found him. He's been the mad prophet for a long time, and who knows what sort of things he tried to lead robot society towards before he met the human cast. Or if we involve time travel (slightly plausible due to TicTocs/Zimmy's future sight), we could say that he's been proselytizing for Kat from before she even realized her aptitude for robotics. I also think that the Robot King's people have no idea that he's working with the Seraphs, but I suspect that the Seraphs know he's playing both sides - they're the robot secret police, and they likely have heard from the other robots about how S13 saved the Angel. Thirdly, I motion that we henceforth name our traitorous Seraph 13 as the False Prophet of his own religion. "But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak...shall die. And...when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him." (Deuteronomy 18) |
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Post by calpal on Dec 30, 2014 4:35:54 GMT
I think he's just that nuts. Remember that the seraphs said S13 was doing this whole "prophecy of the angel" crap before they put him in the storage closet where annie found him. He's been the mad prophet for a long time, and who knows what sort of things he tried to lead robot society towards before he met the human cast. Or if we involve time travel (slightly plausible due to TicTocs/Zimmy's future sight), we could say that he's been proselytizing for Kat from before she even realized her aptitude for robotics. I also think that the Robot King's people have no idea that he's working with the Seraphs, but I suspect that the Seraphs know he's playing both sides - they're the robot secret police, and they likely have heard from the other robots about how S13 saved the Angel. Thirdly, I motion that we henceforth name our traitorous Seraph 13 as the False Prophet of his own religion. Sadly, I don't think you can have a false prophet unless 1) someone else preaches contrary to Robot's teachings; or 2) Kat calls him out on his BS but he continues to preach nonetheless. Sad to say, he is the true Prophet of the Robotic Cult, which is now approaching the fanatical religious territory. |
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Post by Vilthuril on Dec 30, 2014 4:50:50 GMT
Coyote is perfectly aware of the mayhem he's causing. Yes! Yes it does, at least to me!  Incidentally, someone needs to say to Robot, "Whazzamattafuhyou?! You couldn't have just asked, maybe?"  Yup, at some point the ordure is going to hit the rotating blades, and as you say the question is not going to be how many people (humahns, robots and others) get hurt, but how many and how badly. Bleh! (But what a story!) |
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Post by davidm on Dec 30, 2014 6:37:35 GMT
This criticism of poor Robot is terrible! Have you all been talking to boxbot? Robots are slaves, their love is ridiculed, kids destroy them with fireballs... Robot is offering a way out of the oppression from The Man, to have flesh, to look as human, then no man will discriminate against us! Imagine there's an angel, it is easy if you try, a creator to make flesh, so we can reach the sky, imagine all the robots, living life in peace, You may say that I'm a dreamer, But I am not the only one, One day we will have a SkyNet, And the world will live as one! |
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Blitz
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Post by Blitz on Dec 30, 2014 8:15:30 GMT
In all honesty, I don't get what's happening here.
So, the Seraphs, Robot included (and other Court robots?), view the possession of flesh as a form of 'ascension', a step closer to a higher plane of existence (a.k.a. Kat and her human world), and desire it also because it will be an act of love from their angel. To motivate Kat to 'ascend' them, Robot convinces the ship to express their desire of possessing flesh.
Whether the intended outcome would be achieved we will see in later chapters, but the expected side effect of the plan which the Seraphs and Robot were willing to bear was that Kat would distrust the Seraphs. They justified this based on Kat's analysis of Diego's actions: love makes people act in strange ways; that much I know.
Please enlighten me if I have any misconceptions.
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Post by todd on Dec 30, 2014 11:41:18 GMT
This criticism of poor Robot is terrible! Have you all been talking to boxbot? Robots are slaves, their love is ridiculed, kids destroy them with fireballs... Robot is offering a way out of the oppression from The Man, to have flesh, to look as human, then no man will discriminate against us! That doesn't change the fact that they endangered Kat's entire class - and should be thankful that none of the students were killed or injured. |
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Post by davidm on Dec 30, 2014 11:57:51 GMT
This criticism of poor Robot is terrible! Have you all been talking to boxbot? Robots are slaves, their love is ridiculed, kids destroy them with fireballs... Robot is offering a way out of the oppression from The Man, to have flesh, to look as human, then no man will discriminate against us! That doesn't change the fact that they endangered Kat's entire class - and should be thankful that none of the students were killed or injured. More terrible Boxbot nonsense? Fact: Seraphs had situation under control, with syphons and tools to keep everyone safe. Fact: The reckless kids endangered themselves just as they endangered the ship and seraphs. But of course the kids still blame others for their own crazy plans. |
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Post by davidm on Dec 30, 2014 11:58:43 GMT
That doesn't change the fact that they endangered Kat's entire class - and should be thankful that none of the students were killed or injured. More terrible Boxbot nonsense? Fact: Seraphs had situation under control, with syphons and tools to keep everyone safe and not a threat to anyone. Fact: The reckless kids endangered themselves just as they endangered the ship and seraphs. But of course the kids still blame others for their own crazy plans. |
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Post by CoyoteReborn on Dec 30, 2014 17:25:52 GMT
This criticism of poor Robot is terrible! Have you all been talking to boxbot? Robots are slaves, their love is ridiculed, kids destroy them with fireballs... Robot is offering a way out of the oppression from The Man, to have flesh, to look as human, then no man will discriminate against us!
That doesn't change the fact that they endangered Kat's entire class - and should be thankful that none of the students were killed or injured. More terrible Boxbot nonsense? Fact: Seraphs had situation under control, with syphons and tools to keep everyone safe. Fact: The reckless kids endangered themselves just as they endangered the ship and seraphs. But of course the kids still blame others for their own crazy plans.  |
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Shire
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Post by Shire on Dec 30, 2014 18:16:04 GMT
While Robot is pretty crazy, he's not as bad as the Seraphim. Robot's like the pope, and the Seraphim are his crusaders. They follow his doctrine, but they also do crazy stuff that's out of his control. Are you forgetting that Robot was the original crazy Seraph? That's how he got scrapped and cupboard-ed in the first place. The other Seraphs' craziness on the ship might have been without Robot's knowledge, but his attitude here makes it clear it wasn't against his wishes. |
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Post by stef1987 on Dec 30, 2014 20:37:36 GMT
wow, lotsa people here seem quick to dis Robot.
I don't get that, Robot has been an important character in the whole comic, and a friend of Annie and Kat, you know, one of the good guys, and now suddenly you all want him dead.
Not that I don't think it isn't bad what he's dooing, but I'm saddened by it, wheras you all seem to not care about him, and just want him out of the way.
I don't get that spiteful/vengeful attitude.
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Post by goldenknots on Dec 30, 2014 21:22:00 GMT
wow, lotsa people here seem quick to dis Robot. I don't get that, Robot has been an important character in the whole comic, and a friend of Annie and Kat, you know, one of the good guys, and now suddenly you all want him dead. Not that I don't think it isn't bad what he's dooing, but I'm saddened by it, wheras you all seem to not care about him, and just want him out of the way. I don't get that spiteful/vengeful attitude. His actions, however well-intentioned, have created dangerous situations. I like him, but I don't regard him as being safe to have around. He's a loose cannon. |
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