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Post by Vilthuril on Dec 11, 2014 5:35:58 GMT
So what exactly does Paz reaction look like to you all? Or what will she say? It looks to me like Paz is seriously boggled and perhaps a bit frightened. And who can blame her? Of course, people have kissed much worse, both in appearance, intent and personality.  (Hmm...can't make it start where I want it to, which is at 1:30:13, or more to the point 1:30:47 ("Hey, what's wrong baby?"). Incidental Warning: Video rather suggestive!) |
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Post by calpal on Dec 11, 2014 5:59:48 GMT
So the Ether has finally allowed Zimmy-vision Kat to appear for the first time in reality, much to the surprise of everyone (Paz especially). Part of me is also curious as to whether Kat herself has gone through any changes. Maybe something like... green eyes for the Creator?
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sotha
Full Member
Posts: 113
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Post by sotha on Dec 11, 2014 8:06:43 GMT
I wonder how much Kat has noticed of her transformation. I'm still guessing she can't see the ether stuff generally. Of course, who knows. We are still dealing with Zimmified stuff after all. |
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Post by KMar on Dec 11, 2014 9:19:22 GMT
So it seems here is the twist (dare I say 'obstacle') I wanted to see last week.
Nothing more to add. Continue.
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Post by arf on Dec 11, 2014 11:03:48 GMT
Not a clue, but maybe the ship itself becomes the Psychopomp for the robots. Another faint possibility is that Kat is performing the cyber-psychopomp rites on the ship, and was addressing *it* as it departed. (It's Ok, Paz. Psychopomps freak Kat out as well...) |
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Post by Ophel on Dec 11, 2014 11:42:51 GMT
Eww no! Take it in the toilet! Sorry, couldn't resist. May I suggest a more conductive phrase that you might want to switch to? Perhaps "Shit is getting real like all seven Hells!!" Although some may not believe the existence of Hell, which makes the capacity of this sentence to demonstrate your feelings s-ohm-what lacking if it is to amp-peal to a greater audience. Edit: Personally, "Shit's getting real like all seven Hells" sounds quite the flourish, if I may complete the circuit of my opinion. Well, he/she didn't say "literal shit is getting real" but "shit is literally getting real", so the shit can be either figurative or literal, but the "getting real" is literal in this phrase. So rafks sentenxe is correct both in the figurative and the literal sense.  Ooh! You are right! Still, I think I like flourishful phrases. It sounds so satisfying to say things like 'SHIT'S GETTING REAL LIKE THE STARS ABOVE" or "IT'S HAPPENING LIKE THE RI~SING SU~N!" and etcetera. P. S. I made some phrases that actually emphasise the reality of a happening circumstance. Also, rather fun to make! SHIT'S GETTING REAL LIKE THE WINDS OF THE WOOORLD!!!
Iambic Pentameter ftw. |
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Post by todd on Dec 11, 2014 11:53:44 GMT
I'll confess that I'm more concerned about Kat's (from what we can tell) killing the "whale" than about her apparent transformation. It was helpless and defeated, no longer a threat (and her wrathful tone makes it clear that this wasn't intended as euthanasia) - and the students making it out of Zimmy's world all safe and unharmed weakens the case for vengeance. (In fact, I think they're far more likely to be traumatized by what Kat did just now than by their visit to Zimmy's world.) Kat is a (robot)GOD, though. The Seraphs and the Ship tried to FORCE their god to do their bidding, that is generally discouraged by the gods. It is discouraged by wrathful smiting and eternal torment. It does not matter how threatening the Ship is going forward, it matters that it had the hubris to place itself on equal footing with a god. At least that's how Robot will preach it. And I fear he would - but I still can't help thinking that Kat is taking the wrong approach in subjecting the Seraphs to Old Testament-style divine wrath. I had the mpression that they didn't understand that their big experiment was endangering the students on board, were so single-minded in achieving their goal that they didn't think about how it would affect others. What they really need is guidance and teaching, not a smiting - a touch of "forgive them, for they know not what they do". |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Dec 11, 2014 12:24:14 GMT
And I fear he would - but I still can't help thinking that Kat is taking the wrong approach in subjecting the Seraphs to Old Testament-style divine wrath. I had the mpression that they didn't understand that their big experiment was endangering the students on board, were so single-minded in achieving their goal that they didn't think about how it would affect others. What they really need is guidance and teaching, not a smiting - a touch of "forgive them, for they know not what they do". The Seraphs committed one of the Classic Blunders, the most famous one is getting involved in a land war in Asia. Another, not so famous one, is elevating a 14-year old human to godhood and expecting sympathy and forgiveness. If the Ship is truly dead, then it is a lot easier to see why Kat is so angry and unforgiving. The Seraphs took advantage of the Ship and created this situation that lead to the Ship's death. There may be other parties involved (providing those etheric tags), but the Seraphs are currently within smiting range. |
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Post by TBeholder on Dec 11, 2014 20:02:11 GMT
We all know what this means...the Seraphs need to wear invisibility cloaks from now on! Exactly. Not in this generation, probably, but... Never underestimate the power of self-serving theology.  (glare) In other news, it seems Kat used a lamp cord to spawn a lightning storm. Huh. And I assume this is a temporary vision, not a permanent transmutation for Kat? I don't think it's a vision or a transmutation. It's certainly not permanent though. My theory is that in this case, Robot!Kat's appearance is physical and made from the remains of the whaleship. Within a few pages, the shell is going to fall apart revealing a very unconscious Kat. The TL;DR version of what I think happened is Ether + freshly killed whaleship + close proximity to every robot who believes in Kat = perfect storm for the weirdness that just happened Also, syphons depleted the area... then they were destroyed... then what happens once the void is filled? Right, etheric ripples and whirlpools before it all settles down. and Kat will be confused "well, when you strip the wires from a lamp, you get a direct current..." I doubt she can be that confused.  |
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Post by thedoctor on Dec 11, 2014 20:30:52 GMT
While I think this is true and agree with you here, don't forget the robots' obsession with the subject of "love". Annie's relationship with Kat has always been that of a friend. Kat and Paz, however, are in love. This love was even "worth" the first "death" of a robot (the wing). So there might be more in store for Paz in the future. What if they view her in a savior type role? It could be said that she saved Kat from the Ship. She was with Kat during the whole ordeal and did bring Lindsey which helped return back reality. And I think at this point we might have to start making a difference between the Seraphs and rest of robot society when discussing the robots, since the Robot King clearly wasn't on board with the Ship and the Seraphs. The Seraphs have shown little (at least as I can tell) interest in love the same way the other robots have. I think the Seraphim/Other Robots distinction was agreed to right when the robots started coming into this plot arc. But yes, it's definitely a good idea. |
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Post by sapientcoffee on Dec 11, 2014 22:38:18 GMT
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Post by calpal on Dec 11, 2014 23:37:38 GMT
Kat is a (robot)GOD, though. The Seraphs and the Ship tried to FORCE their god to do their bidding, that is generally discouraged by the gods. It is discouraged by wrathful smiting and eternal torment. It does not matter how threatening the Ship is going forward, it matters that it had the hubris to place itself on equal footing with a god. At least that's how Robot will preach it. And I fear he would - but I still can't help thinking that Kat is taking the wrong approach in subjecting the Seraphs to Old Testament-style divine wrath. I had the mpression that they didn't understand that their big experiment was endangering the students on board, were so single-minded in achieving their goal that they didn't think about how it would affect others. What they really need is guidance and teaching, not a smiting - a touch of "forgive them, for they know not what they do". Actually, if anyone needs a touch of "forgive them, for they know not what they do", it's Kat. This is the first time she's actually dabbled into the Creator aspect of her self, and as much as the robots might not have seen the bigger picture - being completely rational and goal-oriented instead of having any moral decencies - Kat is a God now. How do you teach someone to be a God? How do you teach them about the implications and responsibilities one must have being a God over any beings? How do you teach them to raise your believers and have them spread the faith in a way you believe is right and also won't immediately make them targets of other deities? But the most interesting aspect is if Kat even wants any of this. What do you say to a person with such profound responsibilities that never wanted them in the first place? |
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Post by warrl on Dec 12, 2014 0:38:48 GMT
Does an omnipotent god have the power to remove its own godhood? And if so, what are the side effects?
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Post by calpal on Dec 12, 2014 2:21:18 GMT
I don't think it's possible for a god to denounce itself as a god. Like we saw in A Ghost Story, the world continues to spin, whether the gods like it or not (though I can't see why most would not like it). So whether she likes it or not, she's a God to these robots, and her life will have to change in ways no one could have anticipated.
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Post by Daedalus on Dec 12, 2014 2:40:06 GMT
Does an omnipotent god have the power to remove its own godhood? And if so, what are the side effects? By smiting all of her followers, maybe? Seriously, though, I doubt it - one would have to remove all of their followers from the ether, somehow. |
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Post by calpal on Dec 12, 2014 2:55:57 GMT
Even then, someone would HAVE to know about a whole group of followers suddenly being wiped out by their god, you can't cover that up. And considering the sort of theologies and deities we see, I don't think even smiting followers would stop that. At best, you become the embodiment of Death, like those Black Hound guys who look like they prey on people; at worst, your deeds are eternally recorded for all to read, such as was done in Sodom and Gommorah (or the story of Basil the Minotaur, who comes from a religious order that is, for all intents and purposes, dead in the human world).
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Post by Ophel on Dec 12, 2014 8:10:54 GMT
I... I... It's beautiful.  |
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Post by todd on Dec 12, 2014 11:41:15 GMT
And I fear he would - but I still can't help thinking that Kat is taking the wrong approach in subjecting the Seraphs to Old Testament-style divine wrath. I had the mpression that they didn't understand that their big experiment was endangering the students on board, were so single-minded in achieving their goal that they didn't think about how it would affect others. What they really need is guidance and teaching, not a smiting - a touch of "forgive them, for they know not what they do". The Seraphs committed one of the Classic Blunders, the most famous one is getting involved in a land war in Asia. Another, not so famous one, is elevating a 14-year old human to godhood and expecting sympathy and forgiveness. True, but while it's believable and human for Kat to act this way, I still suspect (even fear) that she handled it the wrong way. The Seraphs acted more out of ignorance than malice; they were so intent on getting Kat to carry out her Creator work that they didn't recognize that it involved transporting an entire boatload of students to some nightmare world. (They were also aiding and abetting a lust-driven would-be adulterer, though I suspect that they saw the ship's desire for Lindsey as simply a conveinence to their big goal.) What they needed was, not a display of divine wrath (or at least, not just that) but some lessons in why what they had done was wrong, that you can't put other people in danger to achieve some big end. I don't think that the Seraphs will cause any more trouble (for a while at least) - but for the wrong reason, not because they've recognized the error of their ways, but because they're afraid of Kat smiting them. |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Dec 12, 2014 12:31:45 GMT
True, but while it's believable and human for Kat to act this way, I still suspect (even fear) that she handled it the wrong way. The Seraphs acted more out of ignorance than malice; they were so intent on getting Kat to carry out her Creator work that they didn't recognize that it involved transporting an entire boatload of students to some nightmare world. (They were also aiding and abetting a lust-driven would-be adulterer, though I suspect that they saw the ship's desire for Lindsey as simply a conveinence to their big goal.) What they needed was, not a display of divine wrath (or at least, not just that) but some lessons in why what they had done was wrong, that you can't put other people in danger to achieve some big end. I don't think that the Seraphs will cause any more trouble (for a while at least) - but for the wrong reason, not because they've recognized the error of their ways, but because they're afraid of Kat smiting them. If the Seraphs don't get paper-clipped, then I can see them inadvertently causing more havoc in the future as they try to redeem themselves in the eyes of their angel. Maybe kidnap Paz and get her to present their case to Kat. Really drive home the "for they know not what they do" part of what you're saying. Maybe even reach boxbot levels of terrible. |
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Post by Daedalus on Dec 13, 2014 17:54:07 GMT
Grand Cenobite Kat kinda looks like what you'd get if you mixed Elesh Norn with Jin-Gitaxias. All hail the leader of the Machine Orthodoxy. All Will Be One ɸHave you seen this?  And the other side, once it transforms:  |
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Post by AluK on Dec 13, 2014 18:32:46 GMT
No, I hadn't seen this card. Pretty cool. Odd choice of colors, though. Kat is undeniably Blue, through and through - intellectual, deals with artifice, believes in nurture versus nature, in the tabula rasa: everything has potential. Believes she can make herself and things around her better, if she has enough knowledge to understand the change. Green feels extremely out of place here. Green is about status quo. It's averse to change, it believes in tradition and that things are born to a role. Green believes everything has a defined place in the world. Green is particularly averse to artifice. Kat feels very strongly mono-Blue. If I were to assign her a secondary color, it would probably be Red: Blue/Red is usually seen as the combo of the Mad Genius, those gifted with creativity, receivers of the spark of insight. Blue/Red is known to have (seemingly) great ideas, put them into action with haste without ever thinking through the consequences. The mind driven by emotion. The Red half also imparts a deep care for those that are close. Kat certainly shows traits of that at times. Incidentally, both of the main effects of the card fit Blue/Red better than Blue/Green. |
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Post by Daedalus on Dec 13, 2014 18:45:36 GMT
No, I hadn't seen this card. Pretty cool. Odd choice of colors, though. Kat is undeniably Blue, through and through - intellectual, deals with artifice, believes in nurture versus nature, in the tabula rasa: everything has potential. Believes she can make herself and things around her better, if she has enough knowledge to understand the change. Green feels extremely out of place here. Green is about status quo. It's averse to change, it believes in tradition and that things are born to a role. Green believes everything has a defined place in the world. Green is particularly averse to artifice. Kat feels very strongly mono-Blue. If I were to assign her a secondary color, it would probably be Red: Blue/Red is usually seen as the combo of the Mad Genius, those gifted with creativity, receivers of the spark of insight. Blue/Red is known to have (seemingly) great ideas, put them into action with haste without ever thinking through the consequences. The mind driven by emotion. The Red half also imparts a deep care for those that are close. Kat certainly shows traits of that at times. Incidentally, both of the main effects of the card fit Blue/Red better than Blue/Green. Ah, true. But it's also worth mentioning that U/G is a combination about manipulating the natural order to your own ends. For example, the Simic sculpt in biology, and that seemed the closest choice, since Kat's making her organic robots. Enemy color pairings sometimes do odd things. And U/R was taken by Coyote, heh - manipulating and chaotic. His card's over on the MtG/GKC thread. He's got the Izzet mindset, but less techie. |
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Post by AluK on Dec 13, 2014 19:11:04 GMT
But it's also worth mentioning that U/G is a combination about manipulating the natural order to your own ends. For example, the Simic sculpt in biology, and that seemed the closest choice, since Kat's making her organic robots. Enemy color pairings sometimes do odd things. I'd say that Simic is more about changing what's already out there to fit a new hierarchy/ecosystem, while Izzet is more about creating stuff anew with little care about structure, where stuff will fit. The OG Simic were trying to "unify" everyone through the grafts, so everyone would form a neat perfect community (incidentally, that's an ideal White would probably be fine with, hence Bant). Izzet created Weirds because, well, they can do it and Weirds are kinda cool. Kat doesn't seem to have any grand ideal in her creative endeavors. And U/R was taken by Coyote, heh - manipulating and chaotic. His card's over on the MtG/GKC thread. He's got the Izzet mindset, but less techie. Oh man, Coyote needs Black. Ultimately, everything he does is in his own interests only and solely. He has both Rakdos (chaotic, hedonistic, extremely independent, hierarchy hating) and Dimir (manipulating, scheming) qualities, besides his creativity. He mostly does things to guarantee his existence, his position of power and for his own amusement - for the laughs, really. I'd probably make him Grixis (and, funnily, he displays all of the colors on his body). Hes quite like Nicol Bolas, but with more of the Red showing. |
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Post by CoyoteReborn on Dec 13, 2014 19:59:00 GMT
Oh man, Coyote needs Black. Ultimately, everything he does is in his own interests only and solely. He has both Rakdos (chaotic, hedonistic, extremely independent, hierarchy hating) and Dimir (manipulating, scheming) qualities, besides his creativity. He mostly does things to guarantee his existence, his position of power and for his own amusement - for the laughs, really. I'd probably make him Grixis (and, funnily, he displays all of the colors on his body). Hes quite like Nicol Bolas, but with more of the Red showing. That old, stuffy dragon? Pah! Trying to get more power, for the sake of having more power. If he was leader of the Forest, he'd have wiped out the Court already with some etheric death wave, then he'd have no one to play with! To be "scheming" or "ambitious", as you say, one must plan ahead. I do everything because it amuses me in that moment, without any real long-term intent. Because thinking about consequences of my actions is hard. And boring. I don't believe that the ends justify the means, because I rarely even have ends at all. The lulz justify the means. Hedonism and chaos are great (but also both classically red). I don't need to try to amass more power bargaining with demons, or sucking the energy of worlds dry, or wearing chain-mail fashion accessories, because I'm already omnipotent. I'm so cocky with my power that I'm willing to give it away! I don't need any youth magic, because I'm a shapeshifter and also eternally sexy. I also don't stay in the background, or work to maintain my position of power. I more try to make sure that everyone knows how awesome I am, because otherwise I wouldn't have as much of a cult of personality. And without a cult of personality, no one would follow my orders! And that would be awful. |
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Post by AluK on Dec 13, 2014 23:54:44 GMT
A character doesn't need to show all the characteristics of a color to have it on them: you don't need to summon demons to be Black, or really do anything to amass pointless power, having self-centered goals and beliefs will usually do (like hurting other people for the lulz). You don't need to do long-term scheming, but using mind tricks, illusions, misdirection, shapeshifting, memory shaping, etc will probably give you a bit of Blue - Red isn't big on subtlety, after all.
As I said before, Coyote is kinda like Bolas, but with more emphasis on Red, while the dragon has more emphasis on Blue. If I had to peg Coyote to one guild, it would be Rakdos, though.
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Post by jasmijn on Dec 15, 2014 12:29:59 GMT
KLJFiewfjSLK:DFJWEIFwlkjfd I can't believe I missed this page at first! DKJFWeifjawkc
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Post by thedoctor on Dec 16, 2014 22:12:52 GMT
No, I hadn't seen this card. Pretty cool. Odd choice of colors, though. Kat is undeniably Blue, through and through - intellectual, deals with artifice, believes in nurture versus nature, in the tabula rasa: everything has potential. Believes she can make herself and things around her better, if she has enough knowledge to understand the change. Green feels extremely out of place here. Green is about status quo. It's averse to change, it believes in tradition and that things are born to a role. Green believes everything has a defined place in the world. Green is particularly averse to artifice. Kat feels very strongly mono-Blue. If I were to assign her a secondary color, it would probably be Red: Blue/Red is usually seen as the combo of the Mad Genius, those gifted with creativity, receivers of the spark of insight. Blue/Red is known to have (seemingly) great ideas, put them into action with haste without ever thinking through the consequences. The mind driven by emotion. The Red half also imparts a deep care for those that are close. Kat certainly shows traits of that at times. Incidentally, both of the main effects of the card fit Blue/Red better than Blue/Green. The other thing to note is that I think the color system is a bit different; they (the people who designed an overall Gunnerkrigg/Magic card game) changed it to match the actual setting, so green is the Forest, and White is (I think) the Court, etc. |
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Post by TBeholder on Dec 17, 2014 5:13:31 GMT
uh, guys, there's a separate thread for that...
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(Hmm...can't make it start where I want it to, which is at 1:30:13, or more to the point 1:30:47 ("Hey, what's wrong baby?"). Incidental Warning: Video rather suggestive!)
