Post by thedoomblahsong on Sept 28, 2014 2:17:52 GMT
Huge post ahoy! Sorry if some of these topics have been addressed elsewhere.
So today I happened to re-read chapter 20: Coyote Stories and I noticed a few inconsistencies in Coyote's account. On 492 we learn that there were some humans living in the forest after Coyote created the Annan Waters, that Ysengrin decided not to "allow humans into the forest" without "giving up their bodies", and that "current inhabitants of the forest" are descended from humans. There is an implied connection between the latter two facts, and I always assumed that these current inhabitants are the Anwyn: former humans forced to change after Ysengrin started cracking down. The problem with this is that Jeanne's lover was already Anwyn before the forest and court were seperated, perhaps before Coyote and Ysengrin even arrived. In fact there appears to be an Anwyn present at the planting of the court 580. So then who are these descendants of forest humans Coyote mentions? Another thing I noticed: Diego refers to Jeanne's lover as "that traitor" on 652, implying once again that Anwyn are former humans.
Another thing I find odd is that on the next page Annie asks why Coyote was "looking for Renard in the first place" and Coyote explains it was specifically to give Renard powers, but that Renard refused because he didn't want to lose his human friends. First of all, why would gaining Coyote's powers do that? But more importantly, what human friends? On 488 we learn Coyote met Renard and Ysengrin somewhere in Europe and only then do the three of them arrive in Gillitie. This implies that when Coyote found Renard and made him his offer, Renard hadn't yet made any friends at the court. Another weird thing is that Coyote also wanted to give Ysengrin some of his powers, perhaps for the same reasons (whatever those are). However on 270, 280, and 286 we found out that Ysengrin's tree body is a recent development; he got his power after Renard was captured and Surma retired from her role. Renard was originally reluctant to accept his gift, but Ysengrin never had any qualms, so why only now?
More in relation to current events, I've been wondering about the robots' relation to the rest of the court, and to its political structure. When Diego died, his robots created the next generation by themselves, and it is implied that all court robots are created by previous court robots rather than any human engineers. They seem to have their own independent organization within the court. The court humans don't seem to know or care that Annie stole Robot's CPU from the research facility within the robots' domain, even though it is the court humans who had s13 sent there. The way AdminBot puts it in 211 s13 was returned to his fellow robots, as if he belongs to them and not to the court. Nor do the humans seem to know or care about Annie and Kat's discoveries about Diego and Jeanne. Only the robots ever seem to care about Kat's research or about s13. Headmaster Llanwellyn is the highest authority in the court we know of, outranking Jones and conducting negotiations with Coyote on his own. However, according to Tom the Headmaster is only in charge of the school! (which says a lot about how the court views both Gillitie and the school) So who is the higher authority at the court? What if it's the robots? This seems unlikely, but the robots could also be another 'branch' of the court, with power equal to or greater than that of the headmaster. This might explain how it is possible for the robots to kidnap and experiment on children without being stopped by the court - at least not so far. And who leads the robots? Could it really be the hilarious kingbot? And by the way whom does kingbot sympathize with: the Angel Cult or the Seraphim Secret Police?
So yeah I got a lot of questions that have to do with the history of Gunnerverse, and I bet others do too. Even now we know very little about it, although more is being revealed all the time. I think it will help to make an organized timeline of the Gunnerverse all the way up to chapter 1. Apologies if this has been done before.
Eons ago:
-Jones wakes/is born, watches humans evolve and develop civilization.
Earlier in human history:
-according to coyote, the etherium and all beings associated with it arise, retroactively including Jones.
Centuries ago:
-humans arrive at Gillitie.
-Court robots believe the Tic-Tocs predate the court.
-Some humans become Anwyn? The Anwyn are a family within a race known to others as the tree people. These existed when the court was founded, and probably before the arrival of Humans. Tree people are not descended from Humans (as I had assumed).
-the court grows from the seed Bismuth in the presence of Diego, Steadman, Sir Young, other court founders.
-Jeanne's relationship with tree person dude begins?
-humans try to "tame" the creatures of the forest. In ch. 44: crash course, the wisp claims that the humans "relied" on the seed bismuth too much, and encouraged it to grow the court too quickly, leading to conflict.
-Coyote seeks Renard and Ysengrin with the intent of making them into powerful beings like himself.
-Coyote, Renard, and Ysengrin arrive at Gillitie.
-Coyote creates the Annan Waters.
-Confrontation between Jeanne and Diego recorded by camerabot.
-Diego and some other founders concoct a scheme to "fortify the annan waters and protect the court" (pg. 654) in which Jeanne and her lover die. The Annan waters become impassable.
-Diego dies, his robots create new, lesser equivalents from which the robots of today are descended.
At some point and in no particular order:
-A human man mates with a fire elemental, creating the line of hybrids leading to Surma and Annie. Presumably each of these was a woman who married a human, had one daughter, and died shortly afterwards. Were all of them psychopomps like Annie???
-procedures are created for humans to become inhabitants of the forest and vice versa. Humans are forbidden to retain their bodies while at the forest.
-Ysengrin loses his ear (he still has it in this flashback).
-Ysengrin creates his army, and they hide out in the human ruins in the forest for reasons we don't know yet.
-Coyote creates shadow men.
-Renard rejects Coyote's offer of powers.
-Jones begins her association with/employment at the court.
-Kingbot ascends to power.
-Coyote begins to steal Ysengrins memories?
-The bridge over the Annan waters is made on the court's terms.
WWII:
-Court secretly supporting UK in war effort.
-Morty meets Jones and dies. She secures a job for him at the court with the RotD.
Last few decades:
-Jones meets James.
-Surma, James, Anja, Donald, Anthony, Brinnie, Hyland Sr. enroll at court.
-Brinnie courts Anthony. Anthony is a sociopath. Eventually Brinnie stops trying.
-James trains to become court protector, Surma presumably trains to become medium. ?Surma leaves James for Anthony?
-Court becomes aware of/is newly concerned by Coyote's attempts to give Renard his powers. Court is studying forest creatures such as the tree-dogs.
-Surma and James take up their roles at court. Anja and Donald work there too.
-Renard falls in love with Surma, who is leading him on on behalf of the court.
-Renard asks for power to take bodies from coyote, discovers that the bodies he possess die.
-Coyote persuades/hypnotizes Renard to possess Daniel, Renard fights Anja, Donald, James, and Sivo, possesses Sivo. (Hetty: siiiiigh)
-Renard is imprisoned at court. Ysengrin receives his gardening superpowers.
-Surma leaves court and moves to Good Hope Hospital where Annie is born.
-In Surma's absence, there is no communication between forest and court. ?Surma leaves James for Anthony? (Coyote thought that Surma was still with James)
-Anja and Donald leave court and Kat is born in Scotland. The Donlans later return to teach at court.
-Zimmy and Gamma meet in Birmingham, later invited to live at court. Paz brought to court.
-s13 starts to spread "disinformation and rumor" and is disassembled by the other Seraphim.
-Annie meets psychopomps and discovers her etheric talents, takes Surma beyond.
-Anthony abandons Annie at court.
-Parley and Smitts are chosen for medium training with Jones. Did this begin before or after Annie's arrival? Was this decision prompted by Surma's death?
Please share your insights and help add to this timeline
So today I happened to re-read chapter 20: Coyote Stories and I noticed a few inconsistencies in Coyote's account. On 492 we learn that there were some humans living in the forest after Coyote created the Annan Waters, that Ysengrin decided not to "allow humans into the forest" without "giving up their bodies", and that "current inhabitants of the forest" are descended from humans. There is an implied connection between the latter two facts, and I always assumed that these current inhabitants are the Anwyn: former humans forced to change after Ysengrin started cracking down. The problem with this is that Jeanne's lover was already Anwyn before the forest and court were seperated, perhaps before Coyote and Ysengrin even arrived. In fact there appears to be an Anwyn present at the planting of the court 580. So then who are these descendants of forest humans Coyote mentions? Another thing I noticed: Diego refers to Jeanne's lover as "that traitor" on 652, implying once again that Anwyn are former humans.
Another thing I find odd is that on the next page Annie asks why Coyote was "looking for Renard in the first place" and Coyote explains it was specifically to give Renard powers, but that Renard refused because he didn't want to lose his human friends. First of all, why would gaining Coyote's powers do that? But more importantly, what human friends? On 488 we learn Coyote met Renard and Ysengrin somewhere in Europe and only then do the three of them arrive in Gillitie. This implies that when Coyote found Renard and made him his offer, Renard hadn't yet made any friends at the court. Another weird thing is that Coyote also wanted to give Ysengrin some of his powers, perhaps for the same reasons (whatever those are). However on 270, 280, and 286 we found out that Ysengrin's tree body is a recent development; he got his power after Renard was captured and Surma retired from her role. Renard was originally reluctant to accept his gift, but Ysengrin never had any qualms, so why only now?
More in relation to current events, I've been wondering about the robots' relation to the rest of the court, and to its political structure. When Diego died, his robots created the next generation by themselves, and it is implied that all court robots are created by previous court robots rather than any human engineers. They seem to have their own independent organization within the court. The court humans don't seem to know or care that Annie stole Robot's CPU from the research facility within the robots' domain, even though it is the court humans who had s13 sent there. The way AdminBot puts it in 211 s13 was returned to his fellow robots, as if he belongs to them and not to the court. Nor do the humans seem to know or care about Annie and Kat's discoveries about Diego and Jeanne. Only the robots ever seem to care about Kat's research or about s13. Headmaster Llanwellyn is the highest authority in the court we know of, outranking Jones and conducting negotiations with Coyote on his own. However, according to Tom the Headmaster is only in charge of the school! (which says a lot about how the court views both Gillitie and the school) So who is the higher authority at the court? What if it's the robots? This seems unlikely, but the robots could also be another 'branch' of the court, with power equal to or greater than that of the headmaster. This might explain how it is possible for the robots to kidnap and experiment on children without being stopped by the court - at least not so far. And who leads the robots? Could it really be the hilarious kingbot? And by the way whom does kingbot sympathize with: the Angel Cult or the Seraphim Secret Police?
So yeah I got a lot of questions that have to do with the history of Gunnerverse, and I bet others do too. Even now we know very little about it, although more is being revealed all the time. I think it will help to make an organized timeline of the Gunnerverse all the way up to chapter 1. Apologies if this has been done before.
Eons ago:
-Jones wakes/is born, watches humans evolve and develop civilization.
Earlier in human history:
-according to coyote, the etherium and all beings associated with it arise, retroactively including Jones.
Centuries ago:
-humans arrive at Gillitie.
-Court robots believe the Tic-Tocs predate the court.
-
-the court grows from the seed Bismuth in the presence of Diego, Steadman, Sir Young, other court founders.
-Jeanne's relationship with tree person dude begins?
-humans try to "tame" the creatures of the forest. In ch. 44: crash course, the wisp claims that the humans "relied" on the seed bismuth too much, and encouraged it to grow the court too quickly, leading to conflict.
-Coyote seeks Renard and Ysengrin with the intent of making them into powerful beings like himself.
-Coyote, Renard, and Ysengrin arrive at Gillitie.
-Coyote creates the Annan Waters.
-Confrontation between Jeanne and Diego recorded by camerabot.
-Diego and some other founders concoct a scheme to "fortify the annan waters and protect the court" (pg. 654) in which Jeanne and her lover die. The Annan waters become impassable.
-Diego dies, his robots create new, lesser equivalents from which the robots of today are descended.
At some point and in no particular order:
-A human man mates with a fire elemental, creating the line of hybrids leading to Surma and Annie. Presumably each of these was a woman who married a human, had one daughter, and died shortly afterwards. Were all of them psychopomps like Annie???
-procedures are created for humans to become inhabitants of the forest and vice versa. Humans are forbidden to retain their bodies while at the forest.
-Ysengrin loses his ear (he still has it in this flashback).
-Ysengrin creates his army, and they hide out in the human ruins in the forest for reasons we don't know yet.
-Coyote creates shadow men.
-Renard rejects Coyote's offer of powers.
-Jones begins her association with/employment at the court.
-Kingbot ascends to power.
-Coyote begins to steal Ysengrins memories?
-The bridge over the Annan waters is made on the court's terms.
WWII:
-Court secretly supporting UK in war effort.
-Morty meets Jones and dies. She secures a job for him at the court with the RotD.
Last few decades:
-Jones meets James.
-Surma, James, Anja, Donald, Anthony, Brinnie, Hyland Sr. enroll at court.
-Brinnie courts Anthony. Anthony is a sociopath. Eventually Brinnie stops trying.
-James trains to become court protector, Surma presumably trains to become medium. ?Surma leaves James for Anthony?
-Court becomes aware of/is newly concerned by Coyote's attempts to give Renard his powers. Court is studying forest creatures such as the tree-dogs.
-Surma and James take up their roles at court. Anja and Donald work there too.
-Renard falls in love with Surma, who is leading him on on behalf of the court.
-Renard asks for power to take bodies from coyote, discovers that the bodies he possess die.
-Coyote persuades/hypnotizes Renard to possess Daniel, Renard fights Anja, Donald, James, and Sivo, possesses Sivo. (Hetty: siiiiigh)
-Renard is imprisoned at court. Ysengrin receives his gardening superpowers.
-Surma leaves court and moves to Good Hope Hospital where Annie is born.
-In Surma's absence, there is no communication between forest and court. ?Surma leaves James for Anthony? (Coyote thought that Surma was still with James)
-Anja and Donald leave court and Kat is born in Scotland. The Donlans later return to teach at court.
-Zimmy and Gamma meet in Birmingham, later invited to live at court. Paz brought to court.
-s13 starts to spread "disinformation and rumor" and is disassembled by the other Seraphim.
-Annie meets psychopomps and discovers her etheric talents, takes Surma beyond.
-Anthony abandons Annie at court.
-Parley and Smitts are chosen for medium training with Jones. Did this begin before or after Annie's arrival? Was this decision prompted by Surma's death?
Please share your insights and help add to this timeline
First I scrolled through all parts of the comic that have Jones in it, then tried louisxiv, couldn't find it, and as I was sure 
