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Post by hypixion on Sept 14, 2014 14:00:02 GMT
We all know Annie will give on her live to her child and dies when she has her child. Because that is what fire elementals do. Anthony had been searching for a way for this not to happen to Surma but didn't succeed. But maybe the solution already exists and it's actually very easy and in reach.
Could Annie not just become a human by taking the test that exist for the forest creatures? It works for animals and ethereal creatures like the fairies so why not for a half elemental.
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Post by Gotolei on Sept 14, 2014 16:44:16 GMT
Might paint a bit of an uneasy picture from the forest's point of view if their own medium takes the test. Disregarding that, though...
If her elemental half does count as its own intelligent being, would she split off post-test or something?
Tall Tales doesn't cover the whole death 'requirement,' if I recall correctly.. how would that work?
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Post by Elysium on Sept 14, 2014 17:07:19 GMT
We all know Annie will give on her live to her child and dies when she has her child. Because that is what fire elementals do. No, it's what will happen if she has a child, keyword "IF". |
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Post by Gotolei on Sept 14, 2014 17:27:15 GMT
We all know Annie will give on her live to her child and dies when she has her child. Because that is what fire elementals do. No, it's what will happen if she has a child, keyword "IF". For what it's worh, both Coyote's and Tom's comments. Looks like "when" to me. |
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Post by keef on Sept 14, 2014 17:32:48 GMT
Something I prepared earlier.  hypixion I like the idea, but I don't think it is going to happen. Gotolei Death is a requirement for fairies to pass the test. We simply don't know about animals or elementals. |
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Post by gradiant on Sept 14, 2014 17:38:37 GMT
To be fair, is there anything that suggests Coyote isn't a huge sexist?
Edit: That is, that he doesn't unconsciously support traditional (Southwestern Native American?) gender roles?
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Post by The Anarch on Sept 14, 2014 18:14:09 GMT
Being childless and perfectly fine with being so, I've found that it's a very real thing that a lot of people (and animal-based quasi-deities that may or may not truly exist) simply assume that you are going to have children at some point unless you inform them otherwise.
I've also found that when you tell people that you are childless and intend to remain so, they often express disbelief and a certainty that eventually you will change your mind and have kids anyway, no matter what your reasons are.
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Post by hypixion on Sept 14, 2014 18:19:23 GMT
Being childless and perfectly fine with being so, I've found that it's a very real thing that a lot of people (and animal-based quasi-deities that may or may not truly exist) simply assume that you are going to have children at some point unless you inform them otherwise. I've also found that when you tell people that you are childless and intend to remain so, they often express disbelief and a certainty that eventually you will change your mind and have kids anyway, no matter what your reasons are. I don't think coyote is like that, if he says she will have children it might be because that is just how fire elementals work. Maybe like a pheonix, instead of burning and being reborn from the ashes they just have a child and that's how they resurrect. |
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Post by warrl on Sept 14, 2014 18:58:25 GMT
And if Antimony doesn't have children, what happens?
* She reaches some point of maturity and stops aging
* Her human part gets old and dies, but she then continues indefinitely as a pure non-aging fire elemental
* Both parts get old and die at the same time
* Both parts get old and die, but not at the same time
* Something else
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Post by Elysium on Sept 14, 2014 19:12:53 GMT
The thing is, I don't consider his word as gospel, he's not omniscient. |
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Post by keef on Sept 14, 2014 20:35:42 GMT
The thing is, I don't consider his word as gospel, he's not omniscient. And knowing Coyote it could be manipulation, making her feel it's inevitable. As always, I'm not sure what to think of Tom's comment. Anyway if Coyote really wanted to help he could.And if Antimony doesn't have children, what happens? * She reaches some point of maturity and stops aging * Her human part gets old and dies, but she then continues indefinitely as a pure non-aging fire elemental * Both parts get old and die at the same time * Both parts get old and die, but not at the same time * Something else I always assumed it was inevitable, just starting to doubt. I like number two best. We may never know, but she could of course become a full-time Guide for readers of Gunnerkrigg Court. |
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Post by alpacalypse on Sept 14, 2014 23:25:54 GMT
I don't think that Annie could really take the test. She may have fire elemental ancestors, but she is already mostly human so I don't think that the test could work for her.
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Sept 15, 2014 3:03:17 GMT
Solution/Cure? There was/is nothing wrong with Surma/Annie. This is their natural life cycle. Spontaneous pregnancy after about 25 years and passing the torch to the next generation.* You can't solve/cure something that isn't broken/sick.
* Assuming mother and daughter are lucky enough to live that long.
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Post by Fishy on Sept 15, 2014 4:00:27 GMT
I feel like there must be some restriction to how this test works, in that I believe it'll only work for lesser creatures of the forest. Look at Red's class, what do we have from there? Fish, badger, hedgehog, deer, and two fairies. Green's friend, a bunny, is another. Green herself is a fairy too, and while she didn't want to be one, we know she could have become human.
But at the same time, we know of someone else from the forest who wanted to become human, and for some reason, he either didn't, or couldn't. That would be Renard. After years of rejecting Coyote's power, something that would indicate he has some disdain for it, he chooses to take it instead of going through this little test to become human. I have to believe this would be because that more powerful creatures are unable to take this test, for whatever reason, and if that's the case then a fire elemental would be far beyond the point of eligibility.
There's the alternative option that taking this test defaults you to a human child at the end, which would explain Red's class and why Renardine wouldn't want to go through with it since he just wanted to be with Surma, but if that's the case then I'd say Annie would be better off not taking it and resetting her life.
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Post by hypixion on Sept 15, 2014 8:37:32 GMT
Solution/Cure? There was/is nothing wrong with Surma/Annie. This is their natural life cycle. Spontaneous pregnancy after about 25 years and passing the torch to the next generation.* You can't solve/cure something that isn't broken/sick. * Assuming mother and daughter are lucky enough to live that long. It might not be a problem for a fire elemental but Surma/Annie are half or mostly human. It depends on how they themselves see the situation if it is something wrong or not. Humans lives three times longer than that time. If it always is like that, it could have been that Anthony succeeded in slowing down Surma's dying. Humans/fire elemental hybrids will probably perceive this as a problem becauese they are used to seeing children growing with their parents all around them. I'm not saying that Annie will not accept her faith, she might be just fine with when the time comes, I'm just sayig this could be a way around it if she ever wants it. |
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Post by Elysium on Sept 15, 2014 9:17:05 GMT
And knowing Coyote it could be manipulation, making her feel it's inevitable. As always, I'm not sure what to think of Tom's comment. I don't think it's manipulation, I think he just takes for granted that people have children. |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Sept 15, 2014 10:50:48 GMT
Solution/Cure? There was/is nothing wrong with Surma/Annie. This is their natural life cycle. Spontaneous pregnancy after about 25 years and passing the torch to the next generation.* You can't solve/cure something that isn't broken/sick. * Assuming mother and daughter are lucky enough to live that long. It might not be a problem for a fire elemental but Surma/Annie are half or mostly human. It depends on how they themselves see the situation if it is something wrong or not. Humans lives three times longer than that time. If it always is like that, it could have been that Anthony succeeded in slowing down Surma's dying. Humans/fire elemental hybrids will probably perceive this as a problem becauese they are used to seeing children growing with their parents all around them. I'm not saying that Annie will not accept her faith, she might be just fine with when the time comes, I'm just sayig this could be a way around it if she ever wants it. I personally think Anthony's "big reveal" will lead to Annie having a choice. But I think her alternative will mean sacrificing the fire elemental part of her so she can live a normal human life. And by sacrifice, I mean extinguish forever. I don't mean split apart and each live happily ever after. Maybe we'll also find out that Surma had the same choice and choose to keep the flame alive. "The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long." - Blade Runner And thanks to this forum and google-fu, I now know that this really attributed to the 6th century BC Chinese philosopher, and founder of philosophical Taoism, Lao-Tzu. |
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Post by keef on Sept 15, 2014 11:28:58 GMT
And knowing Coyote it could be manipulation, making her feel it's inevitable. As always, I'm not sure what to think of Tom's comment. I don't think it's manipulation, I think he just takes for granted that people have children. Possible, Tom mentions somewhere Coyote is not very smart. And of course women having a choice in the matter is relatively new. Spontaneous pregnancy after about 25 years and passing the torch to the next generation. You can't solve/cure something that isn't broken/sick. I doubt the "spontaneous" I'm not saying that Annie will not accept her faith, she might be just fine with when the time comes, I'm just saying this could be a way around it if she ever wants it. I personally think Anthony's "big reveal" will lead to Annie having a choice. But I think her alternative will mean sacrificing the fire elemental part of her so she can live a normal human life. And by sacrifice, I mean extinguish forever. I don't mean split apart and each live happily ever after. Maybe we'll also find out that Surma had the same choice and choose to keep the flame alive. I like this. I like everything about this thread anyway, I think this is going to be the grand finale of Gunnerkrigg Court. She will be given a choice, like she was the first one to give Robot a choice. Nice. |
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Post by bansheekitty on Sept 15, 2014 12:31:17 GMT
Spontaneous pregnancy after about 25 years and passing the torch to the next generation. You can't solve/cure something that isn't broken/sick. I doubt the "spontaneous" I also doubt that it is spontaneous. It's not like Surma reproduced via mitosis or something. Anthony is definitely Annie's father. People have actually commented that Annie's personality is likely calmer than her mother's because of Anthony's influence, so it's pretty clear he donated some genetic material. |
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Post by Ophel on Sept 15, 2014 12:54:35 GMT
And if Antimony doesn't have children, what happens? * She reaches some point of maturity and stops aging * Her human part gets old and dies, but she then continues indefinitely as a pure non-aging fire elemental * Both parts get old and die at the same time * Both parts get old and die, but not at the same time * Something else I am in the thought that the thrid possibility being the logical conclusion. I don't think being a fire elemental means immortality. Antimony, if she doesn't bear a child, might become long lived (longer than humans anyway), but she might not continue indefinitely. Maybe pure elementals do, and being half elemental negates that. Who knows, maybe elementals live forever unless harmed, even. |
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freeman
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Post by freeman on Sept 15, 2014 14:09:34 GMT
Spontaneous pregnancy after about 25 years and passing the torch to the next generation. You can't solve/cure something that isn't broken/sick. I doubt the "spontaneous" It would be appropriate that her kind will get increasingly strong sex drive as they pass their teens; www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=437You see, Eglamore just would have had to have been there. And don't forget what happened in "Annie in the forest 2" and "Faraway Morning", just a bit more cooperation from jack and this would be very different comic indeed. Then imagine this page: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=680"The condom just keeps slipping off!" |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Sept 15, 2014 22:11:47 GMT
Spontaneous pregnancy after about 25 years and passing the torch to the next generation. You can't solve/cure something that isn't broken/sick. I doubt the "spontaneous" I also doubt that it is spontaneous. It's not like Surma reproduced via mitosis or something. Anthony is definitely Annie's father. People have actually commented that Annie's personality is likely calmer than her mother's because of Anthony's influence, so it's pretty clear he donated some genetic material. Yeah... but I have to stick with "spontaneous" because it is so far out there and yet it does happen. I think it is more interesting than guessing who will be Mr Available. And how far out is it really for a human/fire elemental hybrid? Tom removed most of my suspension of disbelief by Chapter 8. |
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Post by Daedalus on Sept 15, 2014 22:27:19 GMT
Clever, but just...no. So much no. Solution/Cure?...You can't solve/cure something that isn't broken/sick. Human aging is not a disease persay, but that does not stop us from trying to prevent it. |
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Post by hypixion on Sept 15, 2014 23:06:42 GMT
It might not be a problem for a fire elemental but Surma/Annie are half or mostly human. It depends on how they themselves see the situation if it is something wrong or not. Humans lives three times longer than that time. If it always is like that, it could have been that Anthony succeeded in slowing down Surma's dying. Humans/fire elemental hybrids will probably perceive this as a problem becauese they are used to seeing children growing with their parents all around them. I'm not saying that Annie will not accept her faith, she might be just fine with when the time comes, I'm just sayig this could be a way around it if she ever wants it. I personally think Anthony's "big reveal" will lead to Annie having a choice. But I think her alternative will mean sacrificing the fire elemental part of her so she can live a normal human life. And by sacrifice, I mean extinguish forever. I don't mean split apart and each live happily ever after. Maybe we'll also find out that Surma had the same choice and choose to keep the flame alive. "The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long." - Blade Runner And thanks to this forum and google-fu, I now know that this really attributed to the 6th century BC Chinese philosopher, and founder of philosophical Taoism, Lao-Tzu. Could be true, but I'm thinking it will be different. You make it seem like her fire elemental side is like another personality. What annie will be losing by this is her powers, nothing more. It doesn't even sound like a sacrifice, jus giving something up. There will be more to it, it's gonna be important. Also: It could be that all of anthony's work wasn't to safe Surma at all but his child. He didn't have enough to find a solution, both Surma and Anthony accepted her faith but they wanted to save Annie and give her a normal life. |
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Post by Jelly Jellybean on Sept 15, 2014 23:23:53 GMT
I personally think Anthony's "big reveal" will lead to Annie having a choice. But I think her alternative will mean sacrificing the fire elemental part of her so she can live a normal human life. And by sacrifice, I mean extinguish forever. I don't mean split apart and each live happily ever after. Maybe we'll also find out that Surma had the same choice and choose to keep the flame alive. "The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long." - Blade Runner And thanks to this forum and google-fu, I now know that this really attributed to the 6th century BC Chinese philosopher, and founder of philosophical Taoism, Lao-Tzu. Could be true, but I'm thinking it will be different. You make it seem like her fire elemental side is like another personality. What annie will be losing by this is her powers, nothing more. It doesn't even sound like a sacrifice, jus giving something up. There will be more to it, it's gonna be important. Also: It could be that all of anthony's work wasn't to safe Surma at all but his child. He didn't have enough to find a solution, both Surma and Anthony accepted her faith but they wanted to save Annie and give her a normal life. I do tend to think of her human and fire elemental sides somewhat separately (as in two sides of the same coin) based on Coyote's comment about a first union. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=820 But I should be careful about Coyote's words. |
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Post by hypixion on Sept 15, 2014 23:27:36 GMT
Could be true, but I'm thinking it will be different. You make it seem like her fire elemental side is like another personality. What annie will be losing by this is her powers, nothing more. It doesn't even sound like a sacrifice, jus giving something up. There will be more to it, it's gonna be important. Also: It could be that all of anthony's work wasn't to safe Surma at all but his child. He didn't have enough to find a solution, both Surma and Anthony accepted her faith but they wanted to save Annie and give her a normal life. I do tend to think of her human and fire elemental sides somewhat separately (as in sides of the same coin) based on Coyote's comment about a first union. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=820 But I should be careful about Coyote's words. I think he just means sex. |
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Post by CoyoteReborn on Sept 17, 2014 1:49:07 GMT
I think he just means sex. I'm always interested in 'just sex' *wink* call me Sadly, none of my committed relationships ever last long because everyone always dumps me. Maybe it's my personality.
NAAAAAAAAHHHHHH
That would mean I'm not perfect.
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Post by Daedalus on Sept 17, 2014 2:01:55 GMT
Sadly, none of my committed relationships ever last long because everyone always dumps me. Could it be because of you have a... wandering eye? |
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Post by lordofpotatoes on Sept 17, 2014 15:07:35 GMT
Can she even become fully human? So far we've only seen this in animals and fairies.
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