Coyote Tooth "cuts the very earth"

[fwip]

It occurred to me that Coyote's tooth might share his ability to create large landforms such as the Annan River.  This seems improbable, but A)  Coyote stated that his tooth could 'cut the very earth' and B)  Coyote's tooth is able to change size and shape.  There's no reason to believe that this is limited to changing from a large fang to a large sword.  However, I can't see how massive acts of destruction perpetrated by the Tooth would further the storyline.

Possible, not probable.  Any thoughts?

[GK Sierra]

I think the item is a Chekov's Gun that is aimed squarely at Jones.

As for the Annan Waters, Coyote has a mouth full of such teeth so it probably would not be hard to create the ravine.

[Gotolei]

Nov 29, 2013 7:14:50 GMT GK Sierra said:

I think the item is a Chekov's Gun that is aimed squarely at Jones.

Are they still planning to use it for the Jeanne confrontation?

As for the Annan Waters, Coyote has a mouth full of such teeth so it probably would not be hard to create the ravine.

Not to mention he essentially has an infinite supply of teeth

[GK Sierra]

Nov 29, 2013 7:27:11 GMT Gotolei said:

Nov 29, 2013 7:14:50 GMT GK Sierra said:

I think the item is a Chekov's Gun that is aimed squarely at Jones.

Are they still planning to use it for the Jeanne confrontation?

I believe so. Man, they really put that adventure off, didn't they?

Damn procrastinators.

Then again, it's probably a major plot lodestone so... *sigh* ...one update at a time.

[Toloc]

Nov 29, 2013 7:14:50 GMT GK Sierra said:

I think the item is a Chekov's Gun that is aimed squarely at Jones.

As for the Annan Waters, Coyote has a mouth full of such teeth so it probably would not be hard to create the ravine.

Yes, got that impression too. The classic "Unstoppable Force vs Immovable Object".
According to "minute physics" on YouTube those are technically the same thing and would just move through each other without being affected in anyway.

[philman]

I've always thought it was an odd choice of words. It can 'cut the very earth'. I've got something that can do that too, it's called a spade.

[fishtie]

Nov 29, 2013 7:30:14 GMT GK Sierra said:

Nov 29, 2013 7:27:11 GMT Gotolei said:

Are they still planning to use it for the Jeanne confrontation?

I believe so. Man, they really put that adventure off, didn't they?

Damn procrastinators.

Then again, it's probably a major plot lodestone so... *sigh* ...one update at a time.

Grinding for those last few levels takes a lot of time.

More on topic... In the grand skiem of things, carving out something like that isn't that hard as long as you have a basic method.  It's more a 'why would you do that?' kind of thing.  So I'd say it's very possible.

[ty]

He says that he used his paw:
www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=489

[zimmyzims]

Nov 29, 2013 7:14:50 GMT GK Sierra said:

I think the item is a Chekov's Gun that is aimed squarely at Jones.

As for the Annan Waters, Coyote has a mouth full of such teeth so it probably would not be hard to create the ravine.

Was it you who created the thread to this subject earlier on? Could we just revive that one instead of creating a wholly new one, since at least what I recall this is at minimum closely related to things that we discussed there.

[keef]

Nov 29, 2013 7:14:50 GMT GK Sierra said:

As for the Annan Waters, Coyote has a mouth full of such teeth so it probably would not be hard to create the ravine.

Nov 29, 2013 8:30:49 GMT ty said:

He says that he used his paw:
www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=489

Yeah Sierra you should have known that, that's canon..

I think the item is a Chekov's Gun that is aimed squarely at Jones.

I had to look up Chekov's gun, but that's exactly what I think it is.

[nightwind]

Nov 29, 2013 8:30:14 GMT philman said:

I've always thought it was an odd choice of words. It can 'cut the very earth'. I've got something that can do that too, it's called a spade.

Maybe it means planet earth.

Coyote said he made the ravine with his paw, but wasn't there a panel where he 'eats' his way through the land? Can't seem to find it right now.

[quinkgirl]

Um, remember when Parely dropped it? It didn't proceed to split the earth in half. But maybe you have to intend to?

[lit]

Maybe it was the angle.

[fwip]

Well, does it require intent to change it from tooth to sword form? For that matter, does it require etheric powers to wield in the first place?

As for Jones, I'm hoping that instead of performing one momentous action (and then most likely gets thrown away or returned to Coyote by a disgusted Annie) it becomes her weapon. I guess that isn't very likely either. Also, killing Jones with it has been predicted by too many people.  Now Tom can't just do that.

[Señor Goose]

Nov 29, 2013 16:02:42 GMT quinkgirl said:

Um, remember when Parely dropped it? It didn't proceed to split the earth in half. But maybe you have to intend to?

It would depend on how she dropped it: Obviously the back of the blade or the handle wouldn't cut the earth, so it'd 'fall' through the ground until it hit the hilt, where it would just sort of stop.

As for the 'unstoppable force versus immovable object' question, while it is fundamentally a different issue, it's got the same sort of problem at its core (And I am glad to see another fan or Minutephysics here!) The only problem is that Coyote never explicitly or implicitly stated that the blade could cut through anything, just that it was hella sharp (Kat's tests reassigned this designation as 'really damn sharp'). I could be wrong on that, so if anyone remembers exactly what he said that'd be great.

[fwip]

The blade can change form from tooth to sword. There's no reason to believe that it can't become bigger if the need arises.

[GK Sierra]

Nov 29, 2013 12:23:39 GMT keef said:

Yeah Sierra you should have known that, that's canon..

As the years have gone by I have gotten lazier about going back and checking the comic pages.

Now that we have a search tool I really don't have an excuse, but I'll make one anyway.

SPOILER: Click to show

DID SOMEBODY SAY CANNON?!?!?

[fwip]

here's the actual page:

www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=965

[quinkgirl]

Huh, and apparently it can cut shadows and move on it's own. I should've remembered to mention that.

Also kind of surprised SOMEONE hasn't cut it with a vague answer designed to confuse.

[Mezzaphor]

www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=489 Coyote tells the story, and the montage art shows him using his paw to cut the earth.

www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1249 The wisp tells the story, and his montage shows Coyote using is teeth to cut the earth. "Was anything it said true?" "I'm sure some of it was."

[philman]

I don't think it'll be used to kill Jones, tho might do something like chop a finger or cut her hair. still far more than ever before! . Let us see what's inside. (hint: maybe a robot)

[zimmyhoo]

Nov 29, 2013 16:43:01 GMT Señor Goose said:

Nov 29, 2013 16:02:42 GMT quinkgirl said:

Um, remember when Parely dropped it? It didn't proceed to split the earth in half. But maybe you have to intend to?

It would depend on how she dropped it: Obviously the back of the blade or the handle wouldn't cut the earth, so it'd 'fall' through the ground until it hit the hilt, where it would just sort of stop.

As for the 'unstoppable force versus immovable object' question, while it is fundamentally a different issue, it's got the same sort of problem at its core (And I am glad to see another fan or Minutephysics here!) The only problem is that Coyote never explicitly or implicitly stated that the blade could cut through anything, just that it was hella sharp (Kat's tests reassigned this designation as 'really damn sharp'). I could be wrong on that, so if anyone remembers exactly what he said that'd be great.

It's quite different from 'unstoppable force versus immovable object', it's unseverable bonds vs *maybe* edge which can sever anything, which can either mean it is extremely thin yet strong, or it is something else rather non-physical. If it's thin yet strong, does that mean it's one atom thick? It's a field? It didn't look that thin, so I don't know. If it's perfectly thing, whatever it cuts will just rebond after it passes, and that ball bearing looked rather pushed apart. That lever action would take work, as it is pushing a mass (half of whatever's cut) away against its inertia – it's got to accelerate the halves in different directions. That would imply if something light enough to not be pulled down and aside by its own weight would not be cut, it'd just stay stuck on top simply because there's not enough work in it's attraction to the earth to be pulled to the sides, but that's probably not a possibly situation so we'll just forget that.
Maybe it's frictionless, but that still wouldn't explain how it could slice through Robot so easily, because there's still the consideration that by being pulled through him, it's pushing his top half up. So something odd is going on there, and the reason I can't minutephysics this is because we don't have a solid definition of either what Coyote's tooth or Jones is. Jones is simpler, however, because it seems like she's held together by infinitely strong bonds, similar to the gluons in an atom's nucleus, which hold together protons even though they are electromagnetically repelled a great deal. However, like the gluons, this means that there's a great deal of energy that would be released in breaking those bonds, well, not really.
The reason that we get energy from busting up uranium is because, like electrons, nuclear particles come in energy shells also. However, these shells are a lot bigger, but they still have very stable configurations, such as the electrical configurations of noble gases. One of these is lead – its nucleus is a noble gas of nuclei. Because of this, smaller elements, such as hydrogen and helium, like the electrons in oxygen and fluorine, want to become bigger. Large elements, such as uranium and thorium, want to become smaller. The reason why is because lead's protons/neutrons are all very low energy relative to each other. Therefore, when uranium breaks apart, it approaches a lower energy configuration, but the excess energy has to go somewhere. That's where the energy comes from. Similarly, when hydrogen fuses, it becomes lower energy. However, no energy will be released if uranium fuses or helium breaks apart (hydrogen can't do that, silly), it will actually require energy, since it's going backwards. Still, being bonded in any way is much, much lower energy than kicking around as loose protons. This is why it can be said lose protons have potential energy, just because they aren't bonded – if they do bond, energy will be released. This potential energy actually is manifested as a bit of mass, due to E=MC^2.
So if Jones cannot break apart, then she is formed with infinitely low energy everything, which means it'd need infinite energy to change anything. Therefore, when they did that x-ray, of course she just absorbed all the energy in the x-ray waves. Also, without energy... one now realizes why she's so cold. *ba dum pish* It's kinda like she'd bonded with the black hole of inter-particle forces. However, since it'd release infinite energy to drop to a level of infinity low energy, whatever she's made up of will have no energy at all – and therefore no mass. Soooo.... we've established firmly that Jones and Coyote's tooth are fiction.
No physics simulations for you!

[snipertom]

Do we know for sure that Jones is completely immutable with unseverable bonds? Or just that with the conditions since the earth's formation that none of those things are capable of harming her?

[Gotolei]

Nov 29, 2013 22:47:00 GMT snipertom said:

Do we know for sure that Jones is completely immutable with unseverable bonds? Or just that with the conditions since the earth's formation that none of those things are capable of harming her?

Quoting Jones, she cannot be marked or damaged in any way.

(do we know for sure that she's telling the truth, though? I don't )

[snipertom]

Nov 29, 2013 22:53:30 GMT Gotolei said:

Nov 29, 2013 22:47:00 GMT snipertom said:

Do we know for sure that Jones is completely immutable with unseverable bonds? Or just that with the conditions since the earth's formation that none of those things are capable of harming her?

Quoting Jones, she cannot be marked or damaged in any way.

(do we know for sure that she's telling the truth, though? I don't )

apparently Jones is also a poet and probably aware of that but chooses not to exercise that skill

Re: "cannot be marked or damaged in any way" - as far as SHE knows!

[nightwind]

I think we can assume, since Jones has accompanied mankind from the beginning and demonstrated her knowledge of the aether and its beings, she has already met other 'aetherborn' creatures. She still says she cannot be harmed, so it's likely even Coyote's tooth can't harm her. Of course I could be wrong and Coyote is the first god she ever met. But I doubt it. She's been around too long for that, and I can't believe her interest in aether is a new thing.

[Omnium]

Nov 29, 2013 7:27:11 GMT Gotolei said:

Nov 29, 2013 7:14:50 GMT GK Sierra said:

I think the item is a Chekov's Gun that is aimed squarely at Jones.

Are they still planning to use it for the Jeanne confrontation?

As for the Annan Waters, Coyote has a mouth full of such teeth so it probably would not be hard to create the ravine.

Not to mention he essentially has an infinite supply of teeth

I'm not so sure that he does. I mean, sure he replaced the tooth but every other time he's given another being one of his powers, he loses it until it's returned. Just because Coyote has all of his teeth doesn't mean they've got the power to cut through the very earth any more.

[philman]

Nov 30, 2013 15:12:58 GMT Omnium said:

Nov 29, 2013 7:27:11 GMT Gotolei said:

Are they still planning to use it for the Jeanne confrontation?

Not to mention he essentially has an infinite supply of teeth

I'm not so sure that he does. I mean, sure he replaced the tooth but every other time he's given another being one of his powers, he loses it until it's returned. Just because Coyote has all of his teeth doesn't mean they've got the power to cut through the very earth any more.

Is having teeth a power though?

Although is Ysengrin's amazing powers of gardening count then I suppose they do...

[Omnium]

Nov 30, 2013 15:17:11 GMT philman said:

Nov 30, 2013 15:12:58 GMT Omnium said:

I'm not so sure that he does. I mean, sure he replaced the tooth but every other time he's given another being one of his powers, he loses it until it's returned. Just because Coyote has all of his teeth doesn't mean they've got the power to cut through the very earth any more.

Is having teeth a power though?

Although is Ysengrin's amazing powers of gardening count then I suppose they do...

Well, I would speculate that Coyote (and by extension Ysengrin) can control the trees because they are the strong bones of his body. His teeth, which are described in similar terms (being the rocks and stones) could count as being a power, or at least a representation of one. There's certainly more to it than simply being very sharp.

I've got a theory on what it is rather than sharp, but I can't figure out a way to say the toothsword wouldn't cut the earth, so much as it would bend it around the blade - not in a way that makes a whole lot of sense.

[quinkgirl]

But what about the pebble, which Coyote turned onto a tooth? If he were to remove it later, would it still be a tooth or turn back into a rock?