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Post by quinkgirl on Sept 26, 2013 3:03:10 GMT
Tony hasn't even had a large enough role in the story to make a definitive conclusion, but I dislike him in his own special 'absent parent who may be trying to kill his daughter' way I know that that is pretty bad., but I find him a tragic character, it is pretty obvious that it is not what he intends. And I'm not half sure he tried to kill his daughter, something a bit awful he was doing, but we don't know yet what. Anyway, he has played some role in the court-forest quarrel, since Coyote and Ys all too well knew to dislike him in particular, and I suspect he is on some secret mission right now, too, either that of court or of his own. There is much to still learn about him. I see him mostly as a man of principle who has lead a sadly tragic life. Of course, he may also be just the hugest jerk in the world, which is what he let's himself seem like to others, but I doubt it. I assume he's just ignorant of Annie because her mother had to die to give birth to her. I think he probably doesn't especially dislike her, he just doesn't want to be near her because it reminds him of what he's lost. He probably isn't that bad, I'd like to know more about him. He's interesting, but I don't think he'll ever be one of my favorites.
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Post by Daedalus on Sept 27, 2013 0:55:02 GMT
I know that that is pretty bad., but I find him a tragic character, it is pretty obvious that it is not what he intends. And I'm not half sure he tried to kill his daughter, something a bit awful he was doing, but we don't know yet what. Anyway, he has played some role in the court-forest quarrel, since Coyote and Ys all too well knew to dislike him in particular, and I suspect he is on some secret mission right now, too, either that of court or of his own. There is much to still learn about him. I see him mostly as a man of principle who has lead a sadly tragic life. Of course, he may also be just the hugest jerk in the world, which is what he let's himself seem like to others, but I doubt it. I assume he's just ignorant of Annie because her mother had to die to give birth to her. I think he probably doesn't especially dislike her, he just doesn't want to be near her because it reminds him of what he's lost. He probably isn't that bad, I'd like to know more about him. He's interesting, but I don't think he'll ever be one of my favorites. Does anyone see a lot of parallels between this interpretation and Diego's story? Long-distance care, possible obsession, etc. And we all know that ended well...
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Post by basser on Sept 27, 2013 2:58:43 GMT
So, wait, am I the only person who likes Tony? He and Renard are my favourites. Anthony Carver? My favourite character!
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Post by Covalent on Sept 27, 2013 3:07:21 GMT
I would have to say Bud and Lindsey. I like nonhuman monstrosities.
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Post by quinkgirl on Sept 27, 2013 3:12:56 GMT
So, wait, am I the only person who likes Tony? He and Renard are my favourites. Anthony Carver? My favourite character! Um... I just generally don't know what to think of Tony. He's in my neutral zone, you see? But yeah, Renard's epic! <HIGH FIVED!>
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Post by basser on Sept 27, 2013 4:29:54 GMT
Um... I just generally don't know what to think of Tony. He's in my neutral zone, you see? But yeah, Renard's epic! <HIGH FIVED!> I got super attached to Tony after Microsat 5. His personality reminds me a lot of Sherlock Holmes, which is my all-time favourite character in anything, and he's just generally a pretty interesting guy. I think he could very well be a key player in all the events so far and has the ability to do some crazy junk like create whatever those bone-spikes were and have a magic satellite that only he can use. I just think he's cool as hell. Is he abandoning Annie? Yeah, of course, and I guess that's probably bad. But we don't know what his reasons are for doing that. Heck we don't even know why he got with Surma in the first place. Whatever the story is there I think one thing is certain: he spent a very long time trying to save Surma's life, failed, and now instead of giving up he's moved on to trying to save Annie's. Those bone spikes were pinning down the fire elemental inside Annie. Was he trying to get rid of it, to save her? I think so. And that's why he's my favourite. Cause he sees all this etheric nonsense going on and instead of shrugging and just going along with it he goes "screw that I'm going to fix this whether the rules of magic like it or not". Even if it means abandoning his child and disappearing into the void, he's gonna get this shit done. The man's a determinator. Of course I could be completely wrong on his motives there. But so far that's the image I get of him. A tragic, incredibly strong character who cares more about saving Annie's life than he does about being there as a parental figure. (And let's face it, he would have been a rubbish dad anyway.)
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Post by GK Sierra on Sept 27, 2013 6:47:24 GMT
So, wait, am I the only person who likes Tony? He and Renard are my favourites. Tony might turn out to have a good reason for leaving, and then again he might not. I don't like him because I was raised with the notion that you should stick around for your kids and not vanish. Especially the father. None of the possible excuses for his behavior cut the mustard with me.
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Post by basser on Sept 27, 2013 11:07:26 GMT
So, wait, am I the only person who likes Tony? He and Renard are my favourites. Tony might turn out to have a good reason for leaving, and then again he might not. I don't like him because I was raised with the notion that you should stick around for your kids and not vanish. Especially the father. None of the possible excuses for his behavior cut the mustard with me. That's actually really interesting! See, I was raised by a single mother after my father took off when I was still a toddler. So in my mind it's not that big a deal if you leave a kid with their mom, since that's what happened to me and what I thought was normal until I hit school and realised that most children had fathers who lived with them. I can't think of Tony as automatically a bad person for leaving his child, then, because I learned as a kid that my dad wasn't a bad person despite the fact that he took off. In my case the guy had a pretty crippling drug habit and alcohol dependency and realised that living anywhere near me and my mom would be terrible for us. So when I look at the Annie/Surma/Tony triangle I pretty much see my own childhood family dynamic, where having an absent father figure actually meant the man cared more about us because he sacrificed his chance to see his child grow up for the sake of keeping us safe. I can't help but think that similar motivations apply to Anthony. He's decided that his time would be better spent doing whatever he's doing than sticking around to be a lacklustre parent to Annie. Also hmm... I said Tony reminds me of Sherlock Holmes earlier... I wonder if he's dabbled with drugs like the great detective did? Haha, Tony the Tweaker.
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Post by GK Sierra on Sept 27, 2013 14:50:21 GMT
Tony might turn out to have a good reason for leaving, and then again he might not. I don't like him because I was raised with the notion that you should stick around for your kids and not vanish. Especially the father. None of the possible excuses for his behavior cut the mustard with me. That's actually really interesting! See, I was raised by a single mother after my father took off when I was still a toddler. So in my mind it's not that big a deal if you leave a kid with their mom, since that's what happened to me and what I thought was normal until I hit school and realised that most children had fathers who lived with them. I can't think of Tony as automatically a bad person for leaving his child, then, because I learned as a kid that my dad wasn't a bad person despite the fact that he took off. In my case the guy had a pretty crippling drug habit and alcohol dependency and realised that living anywhere near me and my mom would be terrible for us. So when I look at the Annie/Surma/Tony triangle I pretty much see my own childhood family dynamic, where having an absent father figure actually meant the man cared more about us because he sacrificed his chance to see his child grow up for the sake of keeping us safe. I can't help but think that similar motivations apply to Anthony. He's decided that his time would be better spent doing whatever he's doing than sticking around to be a lacklustre parent to Annie. Also hmm... I said Tony reminds me of Sherlock Holmes earlier... I wonder if he's dabbled with drugs like the great detective did? Haha, Tony the Tweaker. Well that was sagacious of him. My dad didn't even have the courtesy to get a pre-nup with mi madre. Divorce court is no place for a 12-year old, although my Mom's attorney did teach me how to tie a full Windsor, so it wasn't a total loss. Did he ever get clean and come back? I've heard of that happening sometimes, although not nearly as often as the alternative. I don't mean to imply that single parent homes are intrinsically broken, there are a lot of situations where a caretaker can no longer fulfill his duties and it would be better if they weren't around. I just think that keeping both parents around if possible is the best outcome, and that fathers in particular get let off too easy when they want to dump the kids with mom and start over with another woman. Tony doesn't strike me as the kind of person who enjoys recreational drug use. Sherlock Holmes was strictly a coke man. I don't know if he'd go in for meth, although it would certainly help him give more... forceful demonstrations of his evidence. After 40 hours of no sleep, I think the quality of his case work would begin to decline rapidly. That's it! I've got the newest idea for a Sherlock Holmes spin-off! We take the American version and we stuff him full of amphetamines! Instant hit!
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Post by basser on Sept 27, 2013 16:33:50 GMT
That's actually really interesting! See, I was raised by a single mother after my father took off when I was still a toddler. So in my mind it's not that big a deal if you leave a kid with their mom, since that's what happened to me and what I thought was normal until I hit school and realised that most children had fathers who lived with them. I can't think of Tony as automatically a bad person for leaving his child, then, because I learned as a kid that my dad wasn't a bad person despite the fact that he took off. In my case the guy had a pretty crippling drug habit and alcohol dependency and realised that living anywhere near me and my mom would be terrible for us. So when I look at the Annie/Surma/Tony triangle I pretty much see my own childhood family dynamic, where having an absent father figure actually meant the man cared more about us because he sacrificed his chance to see his child grow up for the sake of keeping us safe. I can't help but think that similar motivations apply to Anthony. He's decided that his time would be better spent doing whatever he's doing than sticking around to be a lacklustre parent to Annie. Also hmm... I said Tony reminds me of Sherlock Holmes earlier... I wonder if he's dabbled with drugs like the great detective did? Haha, Tony the Tweaker. Well that was sagacious of him. My dad didn't even have the courtesy to get a pre-nup with mi madre. Divorce court is no place for a 12-year old, although my Mom's attorney did teach me how to tie a full Windsor, so it wasn't a total loss. Did he ever get clean and come back? I've heard of that happening sometimes, although not nearly as often as the alternative. I don't mean to imply that single parent homes are intrinsically broken, there are a lot of situations where a caretaker can no longer fulfill his duties and it would be better if they weren't around. I just think that keeping both parents around if possible is the best outcome, and that fathers in particular get let off too easy when they want to dump the kids with mom and start over with another woman. Tony doesn't strike me as the kind of person who enjoys recreational drug use. Sherlock Holmes was strictly a coke man. I don't know if he'd go in for meth, although it would certainly help him give more... forceful demonstrations of his evidence. After 40 hours of no sleep, I think the quality of his case work would begin to decline rapidly. That's it! I've got the newest idea for a Sherlock Holmes spin-off! We take the American version and we stuff him full of amphetamines! Instant hit! Nah, he got murdered by a guy he owed money to. I was about eight years old I think. Didn't phase me too much since I'd never actually gotten to meet him in person. I spent a long time thinking he was a terrible person for choosing drugs over his family, though, so I do understand the "stick around at all costs" mindset. Of course then I ended up hooked on the same drugs as him in my late teens/early twenties and quickly forgave the guy. Coke ain't no joke, kids. And Holmes also did morphine, don't forget! Needed it to level out the coke highs, hah. The modern BBC incarnation is hopelessly dependent on nicotine patches, though. More PC I guess. But eh, it's all more or less the same anyway. I mean speed/meth are a bit more of a jittery, get-stuff-done high while coke mostly just makes you super chatty but either way you won't feel much like sleeping. It is totally possible to pull a 40-hour bender on cocaine if you're determined enough - it's just that it wears off so quick and is so expensive that you're better off buying a couple grams of meth instead. Anyway, we don't know enough about Tony's character to have a good idea of his morals but I could definitely see him being a casual stimulant addict. Or maybe some crazy etheric chemical thing, that'd be cool. Magic speeeeed.
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Post by GK Sierra on Sept 27, 2013 17:39:09 GMT
Well that was sagacious of him. My dad didn't even have the courtesy to get a pre-nup with mi madre. Divorce court is no place for a 12-year old, although my Mom's attorney did teach me how to tie a full Windsor, so it wasn't a total loss. Did he ever get clean and come back? I've heard of that happening sometimes, although not nearly as often as the alternative. I don't mean to imply that single parent homes are intrinsically broken, there are a lot of situations where a caretaker can no longer fulfill his duties and it would be better if they weren't around. I just think that keeping both parents around if possible is the best outcome, and that fathers in particular get let off too easy when they want to dump the kids with mom and start over with another woman. Tony doesn't strike me as the kind of person who enjoys recreational drug use. Sherlock Holmes was strictly a coke man. I don't know if he'd go in for meth, although it would certainly help him give more... forceful demonstrations of his evidence. After 40 hours of no sleep, I think the quality of his case work would begin to decline rapidly. That's it! I've got the newest idea for a Sherlock Holmes spin-off! We take the American version and we stuff him full of amphetamines! Instant hit! Nah, he got murdered by a guy he owed money to. I was about eight years old I think. Didn't phase me too much since I'd never actually gotten to meet him in person. I spent a long time thinking he was a terrible person for choosing drugs over his family, though, so I do understand the "stick around at all costs" mindset. Of course then I ended up hooked on the same drugs as him in my late teens/early twenties and quickly forgave the guy. Coke ain't no joke, kids. And Holmes also did morphine, don't forget! Needed it to level out the coke highs, hah. The modern BBC incarnation is hopelessly dependent on nicotine patches, though. More PC I guess. But eh, it's all more or less the same anyway. I mean speed/meth are a bit more of a jittery, get-stuff-done high while coke mostly just makes you super chatty but either way you won't feel much like sleeping. It is totally possible to pull a 40-hour bender on cocaine if you're determined enough - it's just that it wears off so quick and is so expensive that you're better off buying a couple grams of meth instead. Anyway, we don't know enough about Tony's character to have a good idea of his morals but I could definitely see him being a casual stimulant addict. Or maybe some crazy etheric chemical thing, that'd be cool. Magic speeeeed. Wow, that's awful. But when it comes to blow, them's the breaks I guess. One minute you're railing for giggles and the next you're moving up the ladder to harder things. Rick James said it right, cocaine's a hell of a drug.Seriously though? The new Holmes is hooked on... nicotine patches? Is the Hound of the Baskervilles just a mid-size doberman with some flames painted on? That's downright lame.
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Post by snipertom on Sept 27, 2013 19:32:23 GMT
Nah, he got murdered by a guy he owed money to. I was about eight years old I think. Didn't phase me too much since I'd never actually gotten to meet him in person. I spent a long time thinking he was a terrible person for choosing drugs over his family, though, so I do understand the "stick around at all costs" mindset. Of course then I ended up hooked on the same drugs as him in my late teens/early twenties and quickly forgave the guy. Coke ain't no joke, kids. And Holmes also did morphine, don't forget! Needed it to level out the coke highs, hah. The modern BBC incarnation is hopelessly dependent on nicotine patches, though. More PC I guess. But eh, it's all more or less the same anyway. I mean speed/meth are a bit more of a jittery, get-stuff-done high while coke mostly just makes you super chatty but either way you won't feel much like sleeping. It is totally possible to pull a 40-hour bender on cocaine if you're determined enough - it's just that it wears off so quick and is so expensive that you're better off buying a couple grams of meth instead. Anyway, we don't know enough about Tony's character to have a good idea of his morals but I could definitely see him being a casual stimulant addict. Or maybe some crazy etheric chemical thing, that'd be cool. Magic speeeeed. Wow, that's awful. But when it comes to blow, them's the breaks I guess. One minute you're railing for giggles and the next you're moving up the ladder to harder things. Rick James said it right, cocaine's a hell of a drug.Seriously though? The new Holmes is hooked on... nicotine patches? Is the Hound of the Baskervilles just a mid-size doberman with some flames painted on? That's downright lame. I think the difference is that you guys both had mums who could look after you while Annie has been orphaned via parental emotional neglect? Death of mother at same time as abandonment by father. I'm sure that the Tony thing will be explained and will turn out to be more complex than what we know, but unless his silence is somehow required to save Annie's life, I cannot excuse it.
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Post by quinkgirl on Sept 28, 2013 0:28:43 GMT
Wow, that's awful. But when it comes to blow, them's the breaks I guess. One minute you're railing for giggles and the next you're moving up the ladder to harder things. Rick James said it right, cocaine's a hell of a drug.Seriously though? The new Holmes is hooked on... nicotine patches? Is the Hound of the Baskervilles just a mid-size doberman with some flames painted on? That's downright lame. I think the difference is that you guys both had mums who could look after you while Annie has been orphaned via parental emotional neglect? Death of mother at same time as abandonment by father. I'm sure that the Tony thing will be explained and will turn out to be more complex than what we know, but unless his silence is somehow required to save Annie's life, I cannot excuse it. Wow... he really is a complicated character to have such a deep discussion on. He could still go either way in my book. I just don't think I know enough about him yet to really judge. As for Sherlock Holmes... I know next to nothing about him, to be honest. A coke addiction though? Well, I realize that would be pretty bad for you. I learned in grade 7 science that they put so much sugar in it that they have to put something else in it so that it doesn't come right up after you drink it. According to some of my mom's Asian friends it's also a pretty good toilet cleaner. But that's besides the point!
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Post by basser on Sept 28, 2013 4:16:51 GMT
Seriously though? The new Holmes is hooked on... nicotine patches? Is the Hound of the Baskervilles just a mid-size doberman with some flames painted on? That's downright lame. Hahaha, actually yes the Hound was literally a doberman. Sherlock got dosed with a hallucinogenic chemical that made him think it was an enormous monster. That's generally regarded to be one of the weaker episodes but I liked it. And Holmes is strongly hinted to have an ongoing problem with drug use (the Met does a drugs bust on him in the very first episode), it's just that the BBC can't show that on-screen so they're explicit about his abuse of nicotine instead. To be fair he uses like four patches at a time which will pretty much knock anyone flat regardless of tolerance so there is that. It's a very good show all told.
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Post by sapientcoffee on Sept 28, 2013 8:10:33 GMT
Between Doctor Who, Sherlock, and Jekyll I've overdosed (heh) on Moffat. However, I appreciate how they've done Watson. And Cumberbatch's Sherlock reminds me of Jeremy Brett's, who was the Sherlock I grew up with (PBS FTW!), so it all feels both new and familiar. It's also nice that the episodes are about 90 minutes instead of an hour, which fits the cinematic look/feel they've gone with. Really, with as busy as everybody is, it's good to get three episodes every year or so. Confession: I don't dislike the American Elementary. *hangs head*
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Post by Mezzaphor on Sept 28, 2013 10:25:22 GMT
Seriously though? The new Holmes is hooked on... nicotine patches? Is the Hound of the Baskervilles just a mid-size doberman with some flames painted on? That's downright lame. Hahaha, actually yes the Hound was literally a doberman. Sherlock got dosed with a hallucinogenic chemical that made him think it was an enormous monster. That's generally regarded to be one of the weaker episodes but I liked it. What was the Hound in the original novel, again? A great dane? A mastiff?
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Post by GK Sierra on Sept 28, 2013 12:37:49 GMT
Hahaha, actually yes the Hound was literally a doberman. Sherlock got dosed with a hallucinogenic chemical that made him think it was an enormous monster. That's generally regarded to be one of the weaker episodes but I liked it. What was the Hound in the original novel, again? A great dane? A mastiff? Standby whilst I slide the complete works from its shelf... ... ... The 1902 version describes the dog as a mix of bloodhound and mastiff... with phosphorous to make it glow and stuff.
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Post by Daedalus on Sept 30, 2013 2:00:06 GMT
The 1902 version describes the dog as a mix of bloodhound and mastiff... with phosphorous to make it glow and stuff. I saw this, and immediately thought of your profile picture.
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Post by GK Sierra on Sept 30, 2013 2:18:48 GMT
The 1902 version describes the dog as a mix of bloodhound and mastiff... with phosphorous to make it glow and stuff. I saw this, and immediately thought of your profile picture. It is apropos. The hound of the Baskervilles was partly the author's shout-out to the various black dog legends of the British isles.
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Post by Daedalus on Sept 30, 2013 2:21:00 GMT
I wonder if we'll ever see the Moddey Dhoo again. Or any of the other guides, for that matter. They seem to have taken a hiatus: when was the last time we saw them?
I wonder if Annie's losing her connection to them, or whether they've just moved out of plot relevance temporarily. Webcomic time *does* diverge from real time significantly, after all, as anyone waiting obsessively for an update has learned.
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Post by quinkgirl on Sept 30, 2013 3:38:00 GMT
Um... I took a break from this thread and we went from talking about Annie's dad to dogs... ?
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Post by Daedalus on Sept 30, 2013 3:54:36 GMT
Um... I took a break from this thread and we went from talking about Annie's dad to dogs... ? Heh, welcome to this forum! XD
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Post by sidhekin on Sept 30, 2013 6:38:51 GMT
I wonder if we'll ever see the Moddey Dhoo again. Or any of the other guides, for that matter. They seem to have taken a hiatus: when was the last time we saw them? More interesting (in my mind, at least) is the last time we didn't see them: When Coyote ate the Wisp. Is it really dead? Did it really live?
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Post by GK Sierra on Sept 30, 2013 7:04:15 GMT
I wonder if we'll ever see the Moddey Dhoo again. Or any of the other guides, for that matter. They seem to have taken a hiatus: when was the last time we saw them? More interesting (in my mind, at least) is the last time we didn't see them: When Coyote ate the Wisp. Is it really dead? Did it really live? I'm leaning toward the idea that Coyote made it up himself. When Annie "wakes up" on the page after, she is in the same position as when she first saw the "Seed Bismuth".
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Post by Daedalus on Sept 30, 2013 11:38:50 GMT
Just because it was all in her head does not mean it was Coyote. The wasp could be a sort of creature that invades dreams instead.
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Post by quinkgirl on Oct 1, 2013 1:44:18 GMT
AAAAAugh! So many possibilities! My head is gonna explode!
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Post by Per on Oct 1, 2013 17:24:35 GMT
When Coyote ate the Wisp. Is it really dead? Did it really live? If something dies in the ether, does it really need taking there?
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Post by sidhekin on Oct 1, 2013 17:48:49 GMT
Ooh. No guides required; it's already there?
Good answer!
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Oct 1, 2013 23:20:08 GMT
When Coyote ate the Wisp. Is it really dead? Did it really live? If something dies in the ether, does it really need taking there? Interesting question. My guess is that there is some sort of transformation that would be required even if something is an etheric creature and in the ether but that's because my understanding of Gunneverse physics is based on classical notions of ether. I don't see any reason why an etheric creature is less real than a material creature in the Gunnerverse though if being in the ether is some sort of superposition then no journey of distance would be required and any such journey would be illusory.
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Post by GK Sierra on Oct 1, 2013 23:36:14 GMT
When Coyote ate the Wisp. Is it really dead? Did it really live? If something dies in the ether, does it really need taking there? If a Wisp falls in the forest, and nobody is around to hear it...
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