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Post by warrl on Feb 23, 2013 5:21:04 GMT
Maybe this belongs in wild-spec, but it occurred to me that this scene could - by any of at least two routes - soon end up with Jonathan LBOB Llanwellyn being replaced as headmaster.
Although I'd advise whomever is offered the position that they inquire about why the guy looks like a bag of bones.
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Post by hifranc on Feb 23, 2013 20:04:26 GMT
Okay, so maybe I'm forgetting something major here, but... why does Annie want to be a medium? Is it just so she gets a chance to talk to her friends in the forest again? Her reaction seems to indicate there's more to it than that, but I honestly have no idea what it might be. More training in etheric matters, maybe? From what I've seen it seems to me that it's a post that formalises the work she has done all her life (for example working with psychopomps in the hospital). I agree with siaynoq, that feeling closer to her mother is probably part of the reason. Training in etheric matters may be on offer but there may be less opportunity if she was the Court Medium. However, now that I think about it, I suspect a deeper motive that she may not even be aware of herself -- I think that part of her motivation for wanting the job is that, being part elemental, the forest has a draw on her.
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Post by redfeather on Feb 24, 2013 0:53:54 GMT
My first thought reading this page: Jones - That will teach you a lesson for not listening to my advice. I will not get you out of trouble, you started this silly game, you deal with consequences. I actually think this worked out well from the Headmaster's perspective. While Annie doesn't like him personally or the Court bigshots generally, she probably has more loyalty to the Court than she does to the forest. By getting a post close to Coyote, she's arguably a better asset than she would be as the Court's own medium.
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Post by kayback on Feb 24, 2013 5:48:46 GMT
Why do so many people in the comments section think this means she'll have to leave the court? The comic is named Gunnerkrigg Court and she's the main character.
I don't see her leaving.....
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Post by maxptc on Feb 24, 2013 7:31:30 GMT
Why do so many people in the comments section think this means she'll have to leave the court? The comic is named Gunnerkrigg Court and she's the main character. I don't see her leaving..... I agree. All this "honorary", "your student" and "the court will not support you" talk gives me the impression that she is still firmly a member of the court, no matter how annoyed the court is with her.
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Post by 0o0f on Feb 24, 2013 10:45:55 GMT
Especially since she still has Reynard.
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Post by crater on Feb 24, 2013 15:50:05 GMT
Headmaster is CRIT with a highly adorable 3x Friendship combo
Also, did Coyote just stop time and take some memories again?
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qiam
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Post by qiam on Feb 25, 2013 0:36:46 GMT
Is it just me or is Jones showing a little emotion in her eyes in panel 3. I'm getting kind of an "Are you serious?" vibe. Also, Ysengrin is basically a bodyguard now. So, the Forest equivalent of the Court's Eglamore. Only official now. In panel 2, she looks annoyed or resentful that the Headmaster is trying to get her to control Annie. She's almost wearing a less extreme version of the expression he's wearing in panel 3! Tom's ability to have Jones express such subtle emotions is always very impressive and often leaves me wondering if I'm not just projecting how I think she ought to feel onto her. I wonder if in panel 3 she's deliberately being even more stoic than usual to disguise any sort of triumph over outmaneuvering Llanwellyn.
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Post by Nnelg on Feb 25, 2013 7:16:12 GMT
I wonder if in panel 3 she's deliberately being even more stoic than usual to disguise any sort of triumph over outmaneuvering Llanwellyn. If she's right about herself, she's utterly incapable of any such feelings. She may be trying to make a point, but she can't take triumph in it.
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Post by zimmyzims on Feb 25, 2013 9:09:20 GMT
[...]With regard to the etheric things, Annie has doubtless top level talent, being a half-demon herself. Not a demon but a fire elemental. A demon is an evil being but an elemental is not. In fact, the original Greek use of the word daemon referred to spirits that normally were thought as highly benevolent, often sort of "mediums" between divine and mortal. Anything spiritual, not fully divine, not fully mortal, for the Greeks. In the Christian tradition they mean any "unclean" spiritual being, by "unclean" referring to "of non-christian character". Which is what demons always were, Christians just labeling them with malevolence because of this non-Christianity. But while it is true that such an unclean spirit is considered as a horrific creature - for example, imagine a counter between a regular person and a fire element -, it does not from that follow that it would be somehow evil in itself.
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quoodle
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Just a man on a planet
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Post by quoodle on Feb 25, 2013 12:57:44 GMT
Ok, this thread isn't too out-of-date to still comment: "Jones, will you tell your student why this would not be a good idea" "she is no longer my student. the choice is entirely hers to make"
Anyone notice the strange answer - We've already noted that this is a rebuff of the headmaster - but knowing jones it could equally just be a matter of fact. (Always that thin line between seeming emotion and spock-like efficiency).
What bugged me - is she then says that it's Annie's decision to make - that's not what the headmaster asked. That's more directed to Annie, I think. Jones did give her positive advice, in a way. There were other times where she explicitly let Annie make her own decision, if only so she could watch what happens.
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quoodle
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Post by quoodle on Feb 25, 2013 13:10:46 GMT
Not a demon but a fire elemental. A demon is an evil being but an elemental is not. In fact, the original Greek use of the word daemon referred to spirits that normally were thought as highly benevolent, often sort of "mediums" between divine and mortal. Anything spiritual, not fully divine, not fully mortal, for the Greeks. In the Christian tradition they mean any "unclean" spiritual being, by "unclean" referring to "of non-christian character". ... Not exactly - The reason demons are seen as evil in the Christian worldview is the ordering of creation - God, the rebelling angels, the fall, temptation, salvation. Devils in that context are working for Satan in the economy of salvation. Merely spiritual things, such as ghosts, are not necessarily evil. And the whole idea of a spirit realm fits more in the context of more non-christian worldview - which tries to answer different questions than a Christian is concerned with. I think calling her a demon - in this context (as in the greek) - is not incorrect. However, in the past the use of the world "demon" was used pejoratively towards Ren, so maybe not.
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Post by zimmyzims on Feb 25, 2013 13:45:37 GMT
In fact, the original Greek use of the word daemon referred to spirits that normally were thought as highly benevolent, often sort of "mediums" between divine and mortal. Anything spiritual, not fully divine, not fully mortal, for the Greeks. In the Christian tradition they mean any "unclean" spiritual being, by "unclean" referring to "of non-christian character". ... Not exactly - The reason demons are seen as evil in the Christian worldview is the ordering of creation - God, the rebelling angels, the fall, temptation, salvation. In fact, the reason why demons and such are considered evil is that they are foreign to Christianity, they are pagan folklore - one of the most fundamental aspect of all religions is to hold as evil what is sacred to the neighboring religion. All words that the Judaic and Christian traditions had for demons originally meant something more positive to some other religion, and were only implanted to the Judaic-Christian mythology negatively afterwards in order to denigrate the neighboring religious beliefs. As I said, this is why they are also considered not pure. Spiritual things that are Christian, like the holy Ghost, angels or the souls of Christians, are clean, good and so on. So, basically, demon only means something negative thanks to Christians. No problems with using it as pejorative term, it is commonly used so, just explained that the negative sense is simply that it is foreign and feared.
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Post by thedoctor on Nov 5, 2013 14:41:24 GMT
My first thought reading this page: Jones - That will teach you a lesson for not listening to my advice. I will not get you out of trouble, you started this silly game, you deal with consequences. I actually think this worked out well from the Headmaster's perspective. While Annie doesn't like him personally or the Court bigshots generally, she probably has more loyalty to the Court than she does to the forest. By getting a post close to Coyote, she's arguably a better asset than she would be as the Court's own medium. I'm obviously commenting really late, but I felt like this needed to be said (apologies to whoever if someone has already said it). I totally agree with the above remark; in fact I'm pretty sure that the headmaster did this PRECISELY so that Annie would end up as the Forest medium; he knows the opinions of the court and Coyote's liking for Annie; what did he expect would happen? He expected exactly this; he's set it up so that the children feel that it's their doing, but how could he NOT know Smitty's response to him curtailing Annie's freedom? He wants Annie in that position, for the reason suggested above, or for another, and we'll eventually get to see why! At least, I really hope this is what's going on; otherwise his clumsy attempts at manipulation come across as a petulant four-year-old who should clearly not be in charge of such an important place as GKC.
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Post by quinkgirl on Nov 5, 2013 15:52:19 GMT
I actually think this worked out well from the Headmaster's perspective. While Annie doesn't like him personally or the Court bigshots generally, she probably has more loyalty to the Court than she does to the forest. By getting a post close to Coyote, she's arguably a better asset than she would be as the Court's own medium. I'm obviously commenting really late, but I felt like this needed to be said (apologies to whoever if someone has already said it). I totally agree with the above remark; in fact I'm pretty sure that the headmaster did this PRECISELY so that Annie would end up as the Forest medium; he knows the opinions of the court and Coyote's liking for Annie; what did he expect would happen? He expected exactly this; he's set it up so that the children feel that it's their doing, but how could he NOT know Smitty's response to him curtailing Annie's freedom? He wants Annie in that position, for the reason suggested above, or for another, and we'll eventually get to see why! At least, I really hope this is what's going on; otherwise his clumsy attempts at manipulation come across as a petulant four-year-old who should clearly not be in charge of such an important place as GKC. ...I didn't actually realize that. I wonder if the Headmaster knows? I mean, he was acting pretty pissed. So either he's a really good actor or... Even if Annie is more faithful to the court though, would she give away Coyote's secrets?
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Post by Daedalus on Nov 6, 2013 1:31:52 GMT
I'm obviously commenting really late, but I felt like this needed to be said (apologies to whoever if someone has already said it). I totally agree with the above remark; in fact I'm pretty sure that the headmaster did this PRECISELY so that Annie would end up as the Forest medium; he knows the opinions of the court and Coyote's liking for Annie; what did he expect would happen? He expected exactly this; he's set it up so that the children feel that it's their doing, but how could he NOT know Smitty's response to him curtailing Annie's freedom? He wants Annie in that position, for the reason suggested above, or for another, and we'll eventually get to see why! At least, I really hope this is what's going on; otherwise his clumsy attempts at manipulation come across as a petulant four-year-old who should clearly not be in charge of such an important place as GKC. ...I didn't actually realize that. I wonder if the Headmaster knows? I mean, he was acting pretty pissed. So either he's a really good actor or... Even if Annie is more faithful to the court though, would she give away Coyote's secrets? If he thinks Annie, with her rebellious and fiery personality, is planning on telling him anything, he has another thing coming. I think this theory is viable, but only if he either misjudges Annie or has another way to get the information from her, such as a mind-reading device or convincing one of her confidantes to tell him her secrets. Perhaps he expects Jones to tell him anything that Annie shares with her? Who knows. I had read this as his plans falling apart, but perhaps he is more cunning than I had given him credit for.
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Post by Gotolei on Nov 6, 2013 1:44:26 GMT
...I didn't actually realize that. I wonder if the Headmaster knows? I mean, he was acting pretty pissed. So either he's a really good actor or... Even if Annie is more faithful to the court though, would she give away Coyote's secrets? If he thinks Annie, with her rebellious and fiery personality, is planning on telling him anything, he has another thing coming. I think this theory is viable, but only if he either misjudges Annie or has another way to get the information from her, such as a mind-reading device or convincing one of her confidantes to tell him her secrets. Perhaps he expects Jones to tell him anything that Annie shares with her? Who knows. I had read this as his plans falling apart, but perhaps he is more cunning than I had given him credit for. I recall some people have been worried recently about Paz doing this sort of thing. I read this chapter like that as well, thinking this was the headmaster's plans going wrong. But now, second thoughts..this is GKC after all.
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Post by Daedalus on Nov 6, 2013 3:02:02 GMT
If he thinks Annie, with her rebellious and fiery personality, is planning on telling him anything, he has another thing coming. I think this theory is viable, but only if he either misjudges Annie or has another way to get the information from her, such as a mind-reading device or convincing one of her confidantes to tell him her secrets. Perhaps he expects Jones to tell him anything that Annie shares with her? Who knows. I had read this as his plans falling apart, but perhaps he is more cunning than I had given him credit for. I recall some people have been worried recently about Paz doing this sort of thing. I read this chapter like that as well, thinking this was the headmaster's plans going wrong. But now, second thoughts..this is GKC after all. "This is GKC after all" kind of defines why we all love this comic it is so unique.
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Post by GK Sierra on Nov 6, 2013 3:23:44 GMT
Tom will find a way to dash our hopes, I know it.
Kat has a heart with a slash through it in the fifth treatise, after all. That can't bode well.
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Post by thedoctor on Nov 6, 2013 8:11:47 GMT
I read this chapter like that as well, thinking this was the headmaster's plans going wrong.But now, second thoughts..this is GKC after all. That's exactly what happened to me; I read through, said "Aw yeah, Annie stuck it to the man," and went on. Then I reread it because some people were talking about Coyote, and then I started thinking "you know, for a man who runs an apparently brilliant organization that is both technologically savvy and seemingly very manipulative, the Headmaster seems to be a little too...forced (not the right word, but I can't think of a better one). Honestly, what did he expect would happen if he pulled this kind of move in front Coyote, the Court, and everybody?" Then I had a crazy idea hit me upside the head harder than a two-by-four; what if the Headmaster is actually manipulating this entire scenario? I don't know exactly why he would want Annie as the forest's medium, but it honestly feels too direct and unsubtle if you take his actions at face value.
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Post by warrl on Nov 7, 2013 1:53:52 GMT
It's also possible that the outcome he got is only somewhat similar to the outcome he wanted.
Although it escapes me what else he might have wanted. Somehow I can't see Annie going *completely* over to the forest, yet retaining her close friendships in the court. Or, more to the point, I can't see him thinking such an outcome would be plausible.
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Post by nightwind on Nov 8, 2013 18:04:32 GMT
I don't know if the headmaster really is that manipulative mastermind you perceive him to be. In my opinion he could also be a scientist bored with all the ruckus. "I am so close to controlling the aether, but I'm always distracted by these forest things, administrative tasks and rebellious youths. Meh."
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Post by quinkgirl on Nov 8, 2013 19:20:49 GMT
I don't know if the headmaster really is that manipulative mastermind you perceive him to be. In my opinion he could also be a scientist bored with all the ruckus. "I am so close to controlling the aether, but I'm always distracted by these forest things, administrative tasks and rebellious youths. Meh." That's certainly what one would perceive from his expression.
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fishtie
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Post by fishtie on Nov 9, 2013 6:21:25 GMT
I don't know if the headmaster really is that manipulative mastermind you perceive him to be. In my opinion he could also be a scientist bored with all the ruckus. "I am so close to controlling the aether, but I'm always distracted by these forest things, administrative tasks and rebellious youths. Meh." That's certainly what one would perceive from his expression. But if that were the case, you'd think he'd just take the simplest most easy way out; take Jonse's advice and pick Antimony as medium. Wipe hands. Done.
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Post by quinkgirl on Nov 9, 2013 16:33:57 GMT
That's certainly what one would perceive from his expression. But if that were the case, you'd think he'd just take the simplest most easy way out; take Jonse's advice and pick Antimony as medium. Wipe hands. Done. ...I've wondered: does he just not want Annie contacting the forest?
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Post by snipertom on Nov 9, 2013 18:10:21 GMT
But if that were the case, you'd think he'd just take the simplest most easy way out; take Jonse's advice and pick Antimony as medium. Wipe hands. Done. ...I've wondered: does he just not want Annie contacting the forest? Well... he did suggest that she try out for medium in the first place, so it seems less likely?
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Post by quinkgirl on Nov 9, 2013 18:46:59 GMT
...I've wondered: does he just not want Annie contacting the forest? Well... he did suggest that she try out for medium in the first place, so it seems less likely? But he didn't pick her as the medium in the end, and got annoyed when she became the forest's medium...
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Post by Gotolei on Nov 9, 2013 18:59:31 GMT
Well... he did suggest that she try out for medium in the first place, so it seems less likely? But he didn't pick her as the medium in the end, and got annoyed when she became the forest's medium... Maybe he really was annoyed. Or maybe..
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Post by quinkgirl on Nov 9, 2013 19:01:41 GMT
But he didn't pick her as the medium in the end, and got annoyed when she became the forest's medium... Maybe he really was annoyed. Or maybe.. ...ah.
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fishtie
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...I've learned to be amazed first and ask questions later.
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Post by fishtie on Nov 9, 2013 21:03:17 GMT
It is a bit strange, especially since he seemed somewhat friendly when they first meet (smile, reference to common bond). And also the fact that he apparently didn't discuss his decision with many people. My own thoughts run thus: it's possible that Annie's wild tendencies and already strong connections to the forest; while objectively being trates beneficial to a medium; might have appeared to him to be possible dangers in someone who should favor the court. While the choice of Smitty might reduce communication compared to Antimony (assuming Antimony is not the forest medium) he would theoretically be the more controllable, and thus safe, option. Such a choice, the safe one, might also be encouraged if the headmaster perceived some kind of conflict or threat to be near. Tl;dr version: The headmaster didn't guide Antimony to the forest to expose their secrets, he pushed her away from the court to keep her from exposing the court's secrets. Of course my evidence to support this idea is... um... anecdote? I got nothing.
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