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Post by GK Sierra on Jan 25, 2013 18:52:08 GMT
That is not bismuth (EDIT: and ninja edits are evil ;-) ). It is not an alchemical symbol at all, and it was always associated with Kat in the Treatises, and other places (the thought bubble you mention being one notable example). I used to obsess over what it means, and only got out of Tom (on formspring) that this is a symbol of his own creation ;-) If it was used in conjunction with Diego, then I can't remember where, and would appreciate a reference from anyone who remembers :-) Sorry 'bout that. ;D I looked up an alchemical chart real quick and was like, mmmmmmnope, not on here. There are only four occurrences of this symbol in the comic (that I could find, and not counting today): gunnerkrigg.com/?p=293gunnerkrigg.com/comics/00000558.jpggunnerkrigg.com/comics/00000755.jpggunnerkrigg.com/comics/00000832.jpgAs well as, possibly, the door on this page: gunnerkrigg.com/comics/00000646.jpgAll except the last, which may just be a coincidence, are associated with Kat. The only non-treatise/title page is in her eureka moment. The symbol is, curiously, *never* used in conjunction with Diego. I believe it is safe to guess that he is therefore NOT the creator referred to. So then either a) the robots mean the creator of something else (e.g. the Tic-Tocs), b) Diego did not create the original robots--he was a maker and a builder of robots but he learned his craft from someone else, or c) the "creator" is not a specific individual, but an inspiration, a 'genius' in the old sense--the spirit or influence behind Kat's designs and perhaps Diego's, even though as stated the symbol never occurs in reference to him. All in all, a time travelling Kat is become more and more likely. Awesome, you're like a human reverse image search! So Diego is ruled out, which means either Kat has assumed some sort of mantle, or it is her personal symbol. Protection? From what? Also, is it implied that 'You're with us, Donlan'? "Welcome to the Robot Mafia." Nice lab you got there Donlan. Shame if eh... something was to happen to it? I imagine Kat's could have quite an interesting conversation with her parents by now: Somehow I think they would take it all very well and give her sound advice without overstepping their bounds. They seem like groovy parents. I bet Jones has that symbol as a tramp stamp. That must be one hell of a tattoo gun.
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Post by TBeholder on Jan 25, 2013 19:22:04 GMT
I don't know why, but Renard's expression greatly amuses me. Protection? From what? Also, is it implied that 'You're with us, Donlan'? "Welcome to the Robot Mafia." Nice sleuthing work, wlerin. ...and now the Robot Mafia is after him.
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Post by Nnelg on Jan 25, 2013 19:49:30 GMT
The symbol is, curiously, *never* used in conjunction with Diego. As far as we've seen... (never mind that lasers are a 20th century invention) Like robots, you mean? (Besides, H.G. Wells thought up of a similar concept in the late 19th Century.) I think that there is a distinction between specific "our creator" and grandiose "the Creator", in this case. It could also be "a Creator". As in, they are marking Kat as a Creator. In fact, both of these things may be true. The Seraphs are marking Kat's workshop in such a way that states they approve of Kat's activities (e.g. as a creator of robots), and it follows they would use their most sacred symbol to do so. Sort of like the way that if the Pope had a literal seal of approval for canonizing saints, it would probably feature the cross. (Or maybe the chi-rho, but that's besides the point.)
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rawshark
New Member
The Anti-Tom!
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Post by rawshark on Jan 25, 2013 20:26:38 GMT
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Post by fish on Jan 25, 2013 21:09:36 GMT
The symbol reminds me a bit of a half-filled laboratory flask, just like the one on that science book in the last panel of this page (only, the water line isn't horizontal in that one). Diego was basically an alchemist and alchemy is the predecessor of chemistry. Maybe that's the connection? Though the robots usually call Diego "father" and not "creator"...
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Post by q3 on Jan 25, 2013 23:52:16 GMT
Kat obviously needs protection from that sneaky rogue robot with the football-shaped head. Why, if left unguarded, she might push Kat's off button!
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Post by Nnelg on Jan 26, 2013 0:47:49 GMT
Suddenly, I am anxious over how much more Robot's past can be illuminated before Antimony will realize she's late for that thing she was feeling nervous about earlier... Though the robots usually call Diego "father" and not "creator"... An important distinction: the first-generation robots, the ones personally built by Diego, call him "Father". I don't believe we've ever seen a modern robot call him as such. (If anything, "grandfather" would be more apt.)
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Post by sofiaoh on Jan 26, 2013 4:00:45 GMT
I dunno, I think it's fairly clear that Kat is now a kind of messiah or religious figure to the robots (she hadn't always looked like a crazy-machine-person in the ether to Zimmy), and that the Mark of the Creator is a symbol the robots made up after Diego's death to represent Diego.
And I agree with the suggestions that it is probaby his nose...
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wlerin
Junior Member
Posts: 62
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Post by wlerin on Jan 26, 2013 7:27:39 GMT
I'm going on the interpretation that the ether view of an individual is the persons true face here. That's not the ether view, though. That's the Zimmy view... which... is... different. Maybe. All in all, a time travelling Kat is become more and more likely. I'm still more inclined to think that Kat is the descendent, reincarnation and/or successor of the original Creator. Ofcourse it would be pretty cool symmetry if she held a some sort of original machine-spirit inside her like Annie has the fire elemental. Aye. Things laid out as they are, I'd say either of the two are equally likely. So Diego is ruled out, which means either Kat has assumed some sort of mantle, or it is her personal symbol. Well, I may be missing something, but during my flip through of the comic, Annie, Eglamore, and Reynardine's symbols all appeared to be unique to their characters--actually scratch that, the old games' teacher's symbol is the same as Eglamore's, so they can be inherited.
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Post by GK Sierra on Jan 26, 2013 9:51:07 GMT
Well, I may be missing something, but during my flip through of the comic, Annie, Eglamore, and Reynardine's symbols all appeared to be unique to their characters--actually scratch that, the old games' teacher's symbol is the same as Eglamore's, so they can be inherited. Antimony's was the alchemical symbol for antimony, I'm pretty sure Eglamore's is lead, as he is the gamekeeper/resident ass-kicker, and Reynardine's was mercury if I'm not mistaken. I believe it was nnlg that asked Tom on Formspring and he said that Kat's symbol was his own creation, instead of something historical.
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Post by smjjames on Jan 26, 2013 14:42:59 GMT
Like robots, you mean? (Besides, H.G. Wells thought up of a similar concept in the late 19th Century.) Well, the laser as a technology is a 20th century invention, which is what I mean. I know the concept of death rays/beams, heat rays, and similar have been around long before the actual invention of the laser.
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Post by fish on Jan 26, 2013 16:12:56 GMT
Though the robots usually call Diego "father" and not "creator"... An important distinction: the first-generation robots, the ones personally built by Diego, call him "Father". I don't believe we've ever seen a modern robot call him as such. (If anything, "grandfather" would be more apt.) You're right, in "Sky Watcher and the Angel" they actually do call him "creator", I mixed it up, thanks.
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Post by Lightice on Jan 26, 2013 16:54:39 GMT
Funny, I didn't notice the whole this time until I looked the page again, today. It seems that Tom has made a tiny colouring error: the blue stripes from Kat's sweater are gone!
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Post by Mezzaphor on Jan 26, 2013 18:24:36 GMT
Well, I may be missing something, but during my flip through of the comic, Annie, Eglamore, and Reynardine's symbols all appeared to be unique to their characters--actually scratch that, the old games' teacher's symbol is the same as Eglamore's, so they can be inherited. Antimony's was the alchemical symbol for antimony, I'm pretty sure Eglamore's is lead, as he is the gamekeeper/resident ass-kicker, and Reynardine's was mercury if I'm not mistaken. Furthermore, that mercury symbol also shows up in the flashback of Coyote using the body-stealing powers.
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Post by Marnath on Jan 26, 2013 18:31:08 GMT
That robot is welding the lower gate segments together; therefore preventing it from ever being fully opened again. Not relevant, but not nice. It will still work. Doors like that run along rails, the symbol shaped hole isn't going to catch on anything, and there's nothing behind it to weld to. It might let some cold air in during winter though, unless the etching didn't cut all the way through.
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heranje
Full Member
Oh super wow!
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Post by heranje on Jan 26, 2013 22:15:03 GMT
I'm going on the interpretation that the ether view of an individual is the persons true face here. That's not the ether view, though. That's the Zimmy view... which... is... different. Maybe. Yeah - if that was how Kat looked in the ether, wouldn't Annie also have seen it? I think what Zimmy sees is something else...
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Post by Lightice on Jan 26, 2013 22:48:25 GMT
Yeah - if that was how Kat looked in the ether, wouldn't Annie also have seen it? I think what Zimmy sees is something else... Ether has layers and complications. It's not like Annie normally looks like a fire elemental in Ether, either. That being said, Zimmy's vision seems pretty complicated even on those terms. What she sees seems to be a mixture of things' true nature, temporal displacement (glimpses of future and maybe past) and the contents of her own mind leaking out. It's really hard to say what the deal with what she sees in Kat is.
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wlerin
Junior Member
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Post by wlerin on Jan 26, 2013 22:55:05 GMT
Antimony's was the alchemical symbol for antimony, I'm pretty sure Eglamore's is lead, as he is the gamekeeper/resident ass-kicker, and Reynardine's was mercury if I'm not mistaken. I meant unique within the comic continuity (I had that written out, but removed it after I found contrary evidence).
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Post by Nnelg on Jan 27, 2013 2:44:02 GMT
(she hadn't always looked like a crazy-machine-person in the ether to Zimmy) Word of Tom said that she has, IIRC.
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zerika
New Member
Meaning comes after the fact.
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Post by zerika on Jan 27, 2013 7:27:18 GMT
Speaking of Zimmy. Remember when you first see how Kat looks to her, at the bottom Tom says, "One day, Zimmy."
I think that day just got a hell of a lot closer.
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Post by keef on Jan 28, 2013 0:29:26 GMT
Just a thought:
From the moment a robot "dies" who believes in Kat the Angel, there are two different people. Kat the angel, who is of the ether and so has always existed like the guides and gods like Coyote (and looks like Zimmy's vision), and the real Kat.
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Post by Per on Jan 28, 2013 0:54:06 GMT
Only if the robot has a robo-essence which is harvested by a robo-psychopomp. (And even then, who really knows.)
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Post by Nnelg on Jan 28, 2013 13:53:07 GMT
Add to this the further complication that by the Robots' beliefs, they're "dead" whenever they're powered off, and can return from such a state with relative ease.
If anything, Kat's actions so far are more in line with a reverse psychopomp.
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Post by freepaperclips on Feb 10, 2013 9:30:45 GMT
That is not bismuth (EDIT: and ninja edits are evil ;-) ). It is not an alchemical symbol at all, and it was always associated with Kat in the Treatises, and other places (the thought bubble you mention being one notable example). I used to obsess over what it means, and only got out of Tom (on formspring) that this is a symbol of his own creation ;-) If it was used in conjunction with Diego, then I can't remember where, and would appreciate a reference from anyone who remembers :-) Thank Heavens I saw this on the boards. I'm ashamed to admit this but I thought this whole time it was the symbol for white gold. Its clearly been too long since studying this stuff in school.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2013 7:37:06 GMT
Only if the robot has a robo-essence which is harvested by a robo-psychopomp. (And even then, who really knows.) To go further down the path of this dart (although this could be bleeding more into wild speculation), the robots are ultimately owned by and in service to The Court. As The Court is both actively collecting and doing experiments with the Ether with the assistance of robots, one experiment could be attempting to influence the Ether through mechanical methods. I think one of the most potentially interesting, conclusive, and affecting would be the formation of an etheric being based on the Robots' own beliefs - which, coincidentally, revolve around Kat the Angel.
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