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Post by sapientcoffee on Oct 15, 2012 11:33:55 GMT
What I had thought was his collar, Samuel Langdon's bow tie looks unlike typically-shaped bow ties, for late 1700s and even modern-day fashion standards. However, mustache-shaped bow ties are not unusual in present popular culture fashion. But I doubt that Tom meant to draw his bow tie to resemble a mustache... now I'm thinking about hipsters and their mustache fad. It's a man deeply influenced by James Fenimore Cooper.
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Post by seaofalchemy on Oct 15, 2012 11:44:53 GMT
Wait, you guys are saying she's in the States? [...] I kind of think Langdon's land looks more "English Countryside" than "Southern Plantation." Well, I think it's assumed that she's in New Hampshire (influenced by English architecture at the time) and not in the south. See below. I'm going off the clothing fashion and Jones' hair. And it looks like this would be the estate of the American Samuel Langdon. A disappointing lack of chimneys! Edit: Fixed a URL.
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krael
Junior Member
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Post by krael on Oct 15, 2012 12:11:03 GMT
excactly. seeing that the langdons were friend of washinton himself, I doubt 'southern plantation' was frowned uppon in their circles.
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Post by Lightice on Oct 15, 2012 12:49:12 GMT
“The scandal and the estate mean nothing to me.” She's been through a lot. Rather than simply being jaded or experienced with troubles, I'm more inclined to believe that the estate itself simply can't provide any pleasure to Jones. Judging from what we've seen of her so far, she doesn't eat or sleep, which gives the impression that she is unable to derive pleasure from physical activities that she could buy with her newfound wealth. What matters to "Elizabeth" is that old man Langdon cares for her enough to give her a new name and an identity.
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Post by ethelmercaptan on Oct 15, 2012 13:20:21 GMT
Huh. Now I wonder what her true name was. Orlando.
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Post by exdevlin on Oct 15, 2012 13:43:13 GMT
The old guy's not bad, he seems to have accepted -- even be rather delighted -- at what Jones is.
Tom's artistic flexibility is astounding. Many times I have seen comic artists who are good at drawing one type of character -- only girlish females, or only muscular men -- but Tom is just.. wow. Every time a new type of character comes up. Annie and robots to start with were rather amusing, but then we eventually got elven creatures, tree-dogs, cows, really old men (this lovable old coot), Jones in multiple time periods.. it just never ends. Tom has my everlasting admiration.
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krael
Junior Member
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Post by krael on Oct 15, 2012 13:45:41 GMT
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Post by thebirdnerd on Oct 15, 2012 13:53:49 GMT
Hi! I'm a new member- but a longtime lurker - and I just wanted to pop in to say that sapientcoffee's guess is pretty well on target, based off the clothes. Jones dress and hairstyle are straight out of the mid-1800s. I'm not sure how to set up links, but if you paste this into your browser www.flickr.com/photos/clotho98/3775994253/ you should get a fashion plate from the December 1840 edition of Godey's Lady's Book, a fashion magazine from the 19th century. So this Samuel Langdon shouldn't be the one from the late 1700s...
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Post by Mezzaphor on Oct 15, 2012 14:02:19 GMT
I'm going off the clothing fashion and Jones' hair. And it looks like this would be the estate of the American Samuel Langdon. A disappointing lack of chimneys! That would be very interesting, but the house in the picture doesn't look much like the place in today's page. Pity.
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Post by legion on Oct 15, 2012 14:09:15 GMT
Who wants to live foreeeeeever~
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serendipity
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Now with 30% more cake.
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Post by serendipity on Oct 15, 2012 15:03:26 GMT
Changing the subject at hand a liiiittle bit, I can't stop thinking about Tom's comment there. "She is given everything."
Chapter 23, it's said that Randy gives her flowers a lot. And chocolates. Sometimes she turns up wearing a colourful scarf- where do those come from? Are they gifts? People keep giving her things- I wonder if this is important, and I wonder why they do. Why guys seem to sort of gravitate to her. Is she really emotionless or can she just not show it? She was awfully interested in getting Parley and Smitty together.
Can she not take anything on her own, or does she just not need to because people throw things at her?
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Post by seaofalchemy on Oct 15, 2012 15:29:30 GMT
I'm probably wrong, so just ignore this. “The scandal and the estate mean nothing to me.” She's been through a lot. Rather than simply being jaded or experienced with troubles, I'm more inclined to believe that the estate itself simply can't provide any pleasure to Jones. Judging from what we've seen of her so far, she doesn't eat or sleep, which gives the impression that she is unable to derive pleasure from physical activities that she could buy with her newfound wealth. What matters to "Elizabeth" is that old man Langdon cares for her enough to give her a new name and an identity. You make a good point, but what I meant when I said "She's been through a lot," is the part about the scandal. I can see how she is not materialistic or reliant on eating, sleeping, or the need for "fun." The scandal, obviously, is the public knowing that Jones is not really "Elizabeth, Samuel Langdon's lost daughter." That she might be perceived as an usurper. Dare I say, that she is immortal. Refer back to [288]. Jones: "Ysengrin is drawing closer to the brink of insanity. I've seen similar, but nothing quite like that." Headmaster: "Coming from you that disturbs me greatly." Although that scene has nothing to do with this frequent page, it indicates an assumption that Jones has experienced incidents where "scandals," danger, or conflicts (perhaps much like this scandal) have occurred—scandals when things get serious, when people get suspicious, and when crazy crap goes down. Yes, she has no desire for the estate, but maybe she really has been "jaded or experienced with troubles." Maybe that's why she's so emotionless; she has developed a calm, collected, and nonchalant demeanor since she is used to everything. Someone posted somewhere about how she has a "seen it, done it" behavior. I'll try to find the post... [Edit]: Found it.
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qiam
New Member
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Post by qiam on Oct 15, 2012 15:42:22 GMT
Changing the subject at hand a liiiittle bit, I can't stop thinking about Tom's comment there. "She is given everything." Chapter 23, it's said that Randy gives her flowers a lot. And chocolates. Sometimes she turns up wearing a colourful scarf- where do those come from? Are they gifts? People keep giving her things- I wonder if this is important, and I wonder why they do. Why guys seem to sort of gravitate to her. Is she really emotionless or can she just not show it? She was awfully interested in getting Parley and Smitty together. Can she not take anything on her own, or does she just not need to because people throw things at her? What if one of her powers is a passive ability to attract people to her (or maybe just men)? It's hard to tell if it's just her natural beauty and eternal youth or something else.
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Post by diantris on Oct 15, 2012 15:56:58 GMT
She was awfully interested in getting Parley and Smitty together. Or she was just pushing the obvious to see what happens. If she knew what Parley felt (and I'm pretty sure she did), remember how she was trying to assess Annie's character? By pointing out her father's lack of emotion. By making her angry - or at least trying to. And everyone was waiting for Parley to show any powers of hers.
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Post by seaofalchemy on Oct 15, 2012 15:59:24 GMT
Changing the subject at hand a liiiittle bit, I can't stop thinking about Tom's comment there. "She is given everything." Chapter 23, it's said that Randy gives her flowers a lot. And chocolates. Sometimes she turns up wearing a colourful scarf- where do those come from? Are they gifts? People keep giving her things- I wonder if this is important, and I wonder why they do. Why guys seem to sort of gravitate to her. Is she really emotionless or can she just not show it? She was awfully interested in getting Parley and Smitty together. Can she not take anything on her own, or does she just not need to because people throw things at her? Randy is fond of Jones, so that's the only reason I see that explains why he gives her gifts. I think the fact that people give her gifts kinda resembles the idea of people giving gifts or sacrifices to Gods/Goddesses. It may not be intended, but giving gifts to Jones (a character who is theorized of being a deity based from the name Coyote addresses her by, Wandering Eye) is rather symbolic of the act of giving gifts to a higher being. She wanted to get Parley and Smitty together not only because they're clearly in love with each other (and who wouldn't wanna see them together?), but because those two (along with Annie) were potential future mediums. According to this awesome bonus page, Jones mentions their skill. Although Jones doesn't show expression, it almost seems as if she's impressed or proud that Parley and Smitty have been bonding. Jones does not show facial emotions, but she often shows concern and never indifference. I can see that Randy gravitates toward her and, arguably, Eglamore is fond of her as well. Perhaps Samuel Langdon and Edward Jones. And that comment of Tom does seem peculiar. "Given everything." She was given flowers, chocolates, candy (which she gave to Shadow), a party hat (woo!), names, the estate (from today's page), and perhaps... her immortality? Dun dun dun!
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Post by diantris on Oct 15, 2012 16:12:30 GMT
And that comment of Tom does seem peculiar. "Given everything." She was given flowers, chocolates, candy (which she gave to Shadow), a party hat (woo!), names, the estate (from today's page), and perhaps... her immortality? Dun dun dun! Uhm.. but the previous page (being later in time) said that she was "taken everything". If here she was given immortality, later she'd be rid of it. EDIT#1 Something tells me that we won't find just one right Samuel Langdon. That it's a clever composition of a few histories. I just found this: www.starstay.com/ahotels/showhotel.asp?hotel_id=35633compare it with the estate. I think it fits, as a building. It doesn't, when it comes to the place it's standing (UK, not USA) and the history. Fun quote about this Court's history: EDIT#2 Actually, remind me: WHY did we assume she was in USA instead UK? Because of the first search we've done on Langdons? Maybe it's UK all the way after all... I was trying to find some evidence against thebirdnerd's fashion thesis, but actually it's at least a bit correct. The ball gown COULD be from another time, but the haircut I've seen on many pictures from 1850s. Also, the police uniforms. I found similar mostly for British (like Oldham Borough). Could anyone help me find anything similar for States at that period of time?
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Post by secondofnone on Oct 15, 2012 17:12:17 GMT
Re-reading the dialogue, I see Jones refers to her elderly companion as 'Master Samuel'. 'Master' can have many meanings. In this case it could mean Jones is the servant, and Samuel is her employer, or perhaps Jones is the student, and Samuel is her teacher. But one I remember is 'a courtesy title given to a boy not old enough to be addressed as mister'. Maybe Eglamore isn't the only man Jones has known since he was a wee lad.
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Post by GK Sierra on Oct 15, 2012 17:33:33 GMT
excactly. seeing that the langdons were friend of washinton himself, I doubt 'southern plantation' was frowned uppon in their circles. Quite right. England was much more progressive about the legislation of slavery, but then again there was a HUGE economic incentive in both places towards the practice. The anti-slavery movement grew out of poor and middle class whites who were the only people that both cared about the issue and had the standing necessary to speak out on it. Howard Zinn's "A People's History" is a pretty good read if you ever get around to it. Who wants to live foreeeeeever~ I do.
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Post by diantris on Oct 15, 2012 17:48:02 GMT
And here is something more for the fashion part: www.vintagevictorian.com/costume_1860.htmlSo. UK or USA? 1790-1800 or 1840-50s? Langdon family OR Langdon estate? ...or maybe a happy mix of all of them to make an alternative history. ;P
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Post by thebirdnerd on Oct 15, 2012 18:35:33 GMT
It's so confusing! The story of the American Samuel Langdon seems to really fit, but the costumes absolutely don't- the 1790s was the beginning of the Regency Era, the time of Napoleon and Jane Austen and non-poofy skirts (see zipzipinkspot.blogspot.com/2010/03/1790s-fashion-transition-from.html). Sorry for all the fashion nitpickery; I'm a bit of a historical costumes junkie. ^ ^ Also: nice catch, diantris. Maybe we've never left the UK?
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Post by Lightice on Oct 15, 2012 18:38:17 GMT
Sorry for all the fashion nitpickery; I'm a bit of a historical costumes junkie. ^ ^ It may well be absolutely deliberate on Tom's part, actually. I've noted on the earlier pages that Jones seems to be wearing outdated fashion almost every time. See the outfit she wore when she came to fetch li'l Eglamore for the first time, for example.
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Post by seaofalchemy on Oct 15, 2012 18:47:12 GMT
And that comment of Tom does seem peculiar. "Given everything." She was given flowers, chocolates, candy (which she gave to Shadow), a party hat (woo!), names, the estate (from today's page), and perhaps... her immortality? Dun dun dun! Uhm.. but the previous page (being later in time) said that she was "taken everything". If here she was given immortality, later she'd be rid of it. :P Ah, you're right about that! "Everything is taken from her" and "Everything is given to her." Take... and give... Maybe it's some sort of subtext toward alchemy that Tom is alluding. I've been thinking that Jones might be an alchemist, and as an alchemist, you have to take something in order to give something. To gain something, you have to lose something. To recreate something, you have to exchange it with something else of equivalent value or mass or material or composition. (Essentially, mentioned in Full Metal Alchemist, the Law of Equivalent Exchange.) This sounds far-fetched and irrelevant, but I've been obsessing over this new theory that Jones might be an alchemist.
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Post by thebirdnerd on Oct 15, 2012 19:07:20 GMT
It may well be absolutely deliberate on Tom's part, actually. I've noted on the earlier pages that Jones seems to be wearing outdated fashion almost every time. See the outfit she wore when she came to fetch li'l Eglamore for the first time, for example. Except that this would be a leap forward in fashion... ^ ^ He is very meticulous with his costumes, isn't he? I admire the effort he puts into keeping them accurate.
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Post by Lightice on Oct 15, 2012 19:14:37 GMT
Except that this would be a leap forward in fashion... ^ ^ He is very meticulous with his costumes, isn't he? I admire the effort he puts into keeping them accurate. Would it? It resembles the fashions worn in pre-Revolutionary France to me. I'm not a historical fashion expert by far, but based on what I've read, open collars like that were vogue in the mid-18th century, but dissappeared almost entirely with the rise of the Victorian moralism.
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haspen
Full Member
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Post by haspen on Oct 15, 2012 19:27:24 GMT
I like the curve that was posted before, but I really think that you people are progressing too fast with it.
Now, the blatant error that you people make is that you completely ignore this tiny box in top-left corner which states 'previous century'. If we assume that GC's actual 'century' is 21st, this places current strip at, by far stretch, very early 20th century. Let's say, however, that Tom, like many people, still think that we're in 'the 90's' and thus, by 'previous century', he means, '19th'.
Personally, I would place the strip around 1850-1870. The cops in 'previous' comic look like your everyday UK policemen and I could also assume it's late victorian era.
Let's place 50 years between acquisition of Langdon estate and the cop action where lead investigator claims that 'old Langdon' is actually 'young usurper'.
Below are my personal assumptions based on logic and intuition:
1: Week ago: Eglamore sleeping at Jones'. 2: 5 years ago: Nice times on the hill. 3: 10 years ago: James the jealous. 4: 20 years ago: Eglamore the teenager. 5: 30 years ago: James the kid. 6: 70 years ago: (presumed) factory bombing during ww2. 7: 90~110 years ago: Langdon scandal. 8: 120~160 years ago: Langdon estate got.
I could also assume that 'Wandering Eye' points to daughter of Ra from Egyptian mythology, so by the end of the chapter, we could end in Ancient Egypt itself. But I think Tom said once she is 'his' own creation, so bluh...
EDIT: Oh right! Hello, long-time lurker, but only now registered to take part in this chronology discussion :3
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Post by sapientcoffee on Oct 15, 2012 19:45:18 GMT
I'm going off the clothing fashion and Jones' hair. And it looks like this would be the estate of the American Samuel Langdon. A disappointing lack of chimneys! That would be very interesting, but the house in the picture doesn't look much like the place in today's page. Pity. Oh! I didn't realise I wasn't clear - I linked that because I don't think the GKC Langdon is that (or, indeed, any particular) Samuel Langdon. I agree with this thought of diantris (nice find with that hotel!): ...it's a clever composition of a few histories. Would it? It resembles the fashions worn in pre-Revolutionary France to me. I'm not a historical fashion expert by far, but based on what I've read, open collars like that were vogue in the mid-18th century, but dissappeared almost entirely with the rise of the Victorian moralism. There's a reason I linked the Cooper picture - the GKC Langdon's outfit is quite similar. If you look at some of the images here, several of the collars just aren't noticeable behind the tie. Since GKC Langdon's rather turtleish, we don't see his neck, which does make it hard to know what's going on. Sorry for all the fashion nitpickery; I'm a bit of a historical costumes junkie. ^ ^ Clothes are fun! So this week I've been seeing lots of old people in comics - it's the season for them? - and Tom easily does the best old people. Langdon's face is getting bony, which is not something I see much done. I like the affection he shows for Jones. I wonder how long they'd known each other? Maybe he'd known her most of his life, like secondofnone says.
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Post by descoladavirus on Oct 15, 2012 20:17:52 GMT
I think some of you guys are getting "Being in the states" mixed up with being in the south of the united states. The first picture someone posted for the Samuel Langdon house would be in New Hampshire, which like all of the states in America's north emulated Britain until the outbreak of world war. Thus there would be no "southern plantation." Slavery in this area did occur, but ended well before it did in the south. Slaves in this area usually wouldn't be working fields (yes George Washington had slaves, but he lived in Virginia) and would fill a position something akin to nanny or maid.
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krael
Junior Member
Posts: 95
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Post by krael on Oct 15, 2012 20:45:39 GMT
Wow Diantris, the similarity with the hotel and the comic is really uncanny, up to the hedges at the sides. I vote the jones-in-the-usa-conclusion was to hasty. also I think the fashion can really help, feel free to continue nitpicking thebirdnerd, because I don't know anything about them. Haspen: nice overall estimate, though I must note that we DO have an excact date on the filling factory accident: in 1924 one exploded of which the foreman was called Edward Jones! Perfect match. I feel we need a little more work before we can estimate which samuel jones we are dealing with, and thus which date he has. The coppers of the scandal are simply early 19th, but of all strips that one is the hardest to guess a date for. I will try to rebuild a more accurate graph soon
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thatkid
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Post by thatkid on Oct 15, 2012 21:42:03 GMT
Whatever Jones is, she seems naturally able to win the hearts of men. Perhaps without even trying?
We know she is extremely attractive, despite rarely ever showing emotion through her facial expressions- And, yet, nobody is ever creeped out by that.
We also know: -Renard finds her to be incredibly attractive, but isn't smitten with her- It's likely that he might just play along? -Eglamore is apparently in some sort of warm relationship with her- If not romantic, they're very close. -Doctor Disaster is smitten with her, and she's willing to at least play along. -Some dude named Mr. Jones who she worked for liked her enough to ask that she take his name when she died. What's more, he might have known about her apparent agelessness ("For as long as I can.") -Some other dude known as Master Samuel Langdon not only was close enough that she could trust him with her secret, but that he'd ask her to pose as his daughter and heir.
Other characters, such as Coyote, Mr. Edwards, and Andrew, meanwhile, do not seem to be as enamored with her. But she is generally considered to be attractive- (Eglamore's Dad).
My theory is that she secretes some kind of weird hormone that makes men attracted to her, perhaps unconditionally, and that she's able to control this. As we see in "Several Years Ago", Eglamore doesn't exactly cotton to her advances, but later on in the timeline he is in a close relationship with her nevertheless.
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Post by seaofalchemy on Oct 15, 2012 22:51:50 GMT
Whatever Jones is, she seems naturally able to win the hearts of men. Perhaps without even trying? [...] My theory is that she secretes some kind of weird hormone that makes men attracted to her, perhaps unconditionally, and that she's able to control this. As we see in "Several Years Ago", Eglamore doesn't exactly cotton to her advances, but later on in the timeline he is in a close relationship with her nevertheless. Good point. Yeah, I wonder what Tom is trying to convey here with Jones. Maybe her ability to attract men will be explained later (or we're just over-looking this aspect). I wonder if this ability is done intentionally or like you said, a hormone that she gives off and an involuntary, alluring aura. Ala, mermaids and nereids of myth; when out of water, they attract men unwittingly and usually were friendly and helpful to sailors. Although she never shows emotion, she seems rather magnetic. If this ability is intentional, what is she trying to gain? What's in it for her if she's trying to win the hearts of men? I looked up the profile of Jones on the Gunnerkrigg Wikia (to see if I'm missing anything that's already explained this phenomena) and read this about her and Dr. Randy Disaster: "They have been said by Tom himself to be dating." Wuuuuuuut?
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