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Post by Stately Buff-Cookie on Aug 3, 2012 20:11:26 GMT
Kat being angel or god.. I suspect it hardly matters right now. We won't know the full implications of either until it's confirmed etheric Kat is more than just a twisted Zimmy vision. Either way, the whole idea hinges on one thing. How long has Kat had this look to Zimmy, and when did the robots start worshiping her enough to do it?
We might find hints that Zimmy found her disturbing before the robots revved up their worship.
If that's the case, well, I have no idea then.
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Post by King Mir on Aug 3, 2012 21:40:27 GMT
Kat being angel or god.. I suspect it hardly matters right now. We won't know the full implications of either until it's confirmed etheric Kat is more than just a twisted Zimmy vision. Either way, the whole idea hinges on one thing. How long has Kat had this look to Zimmy, and when did the robots start worshiping her enough to do it? We might find hints that Zimmy found her disturbing before the robots revved up their worship. If that's the case, well, I have no idea then. But Zimmy did not find Kat disturbing in the earlier chapters. She just called he 'big-nose' And now she can't even look at her. That and the nature of the image ties very neatly with how the robots now worship her.
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Post by vulpes sapiens on Aug 3, 2012 22:19:01 GMT
But Zimmy did not find Kat disturbing in the earlier chapters. She just called he 'big-nose' And now she can't even look at her. That and the nature of the image ties very neatly with how the robots now worship her. Ooo, good call. Has Antimony shown any awareness of Kat as being divine? Or is she not particularly interested in Court events these days?
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Rea
Junior Member
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Post by Rea on Aug 3, 2012 22:41:42 GMT
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Post by Lightice on Aug 3, 2012 23:16:46 GMT
So I'd say it's pretty clear that Zimmy always saw Kat like that. As for why she didn't seem scared, like it said above, Gamma was there. To me, Tom's posts seem to indicate more that Zimmy was always feeling something off about Kat, but she never saw her as strange until she was outside Gamma's calming influence. Gamma usually grounds her to reality more or less, and keeps her from seeing things. There are still many kinds of ways that we can interpret what she was seeing in Kat. As I recall, Tom has also mentioned that Zimmy's powers are similar to those of Coyote and other deities, but she doesn't have any natural barriers that would allow her to control them. This might actually imply that not-real is some kind of concrete dimension of chaos in the Gunnerkrigg Court universe, where reality-altering forces manifest, and give beings like Coyote their power, once they've been given form by the human belief.
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Post by Stately Buff-Cookie on Aug 3, 2012 23:20:10 GMT
Crazy theory time.
Even goes back to how Coyote says he saw the creation of man. The creation of a diety is retroactive. Once a deity exists, they have always existed. Now we wait for someone to come along and realize I'm trying to hint at the time traveling kat makes the birds theory.
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Post by Raph on Aug 3, 2012 23:31:25 GMT
Crazy theory time. Even goes back to how Coyote says he saw the creation of man. The creation of a diety is retroactive. Once a deity exists, they have always existed. Now we wait for someone to come along and realize I'm trying to hint at the time traveling kat makes the birds theory. That is exactly what I was thinking. If a god is "created" to explain some phenomena, it doesn't become the reason for that from then on, it becomes the reason for how and why that has always been. I also wonder if Tom is going to deliver a full on explanation on the mythology of the Court's universe, as its (the Court's) reason for being and ways of operating seems to work as the main arc for the story, even if many chapters focus more on character development, with some discovery about the institution or the forest as the story's motive to carry on.
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Post by warrl on Aug 4, 2012 2:04:09 GMT
Or maybe this implies that in the Gunnerkrigg universe, internally consistent theories always turn out to be correct because the scientists will them into existence? That would be pretty convenient. In White Wolf's "Mage" games, that is EXACTLY how magic works. What a mage can do is determined by the force of his will and the strength of his belief in what he can do and how he can do it. (The consequences are heavily influenced by how many people see it happen and say "wait a minute, that's not possible!".)
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Post by warrl on Aug 4, 2012 2:14:18 GMT
Crazy theory time. Even goes back to how Coyote says he saw the creation of man. The creation of a diety is retroactive. Once a deity exists, they have always existed. That would depend on whether the mythology of the newly created deity includes an origin myth. If not, then the deity always existed. But if there's an origin myth, then that's how the deity originated. (Retroactively as necessary.) I've postulated that there is no such thing as fiction, just tales from alternate universes. And if someone comes up with something that isn't from any existing alternate universe, the necessary universe is created - retroactively as necessary.
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Post by GK Sierra on Aug 4, 2012 2:41:22 GMT
Crazy theory time. Even goes back to how Coyote says he saw the creation of man. The creation of a diety is retroactive. Once a deity exists, they have always existed. That would depend on whether the mythology of the newly created deity includes an origin myth. If not, then the deity always existed. But if there's an origin myth, then that's how the deity originated. (Retroactively as necessary.) I've postulated that there is no such thing as fiction, just tales from alternate universes. And if someone comes up with something that isn't from any existing alternate universe, the necessary universe is created - retroactively as necessary. Now we just need a way to traverse said dimensions and I would achieve my dream of becoming a time bandit. First thing I'd do is get a team of gunmen to hold up Gringotts. Wizards don't know 'bout bullets.
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Post by buzzybuzz on Aug 4, 2012 2:45:32 GMT
Or maybe this implies that in the Gunnerkrigg universe, internally consistent theories always turn out to be correct because the scientists will them into existence? That would be pretty convenient. In White Wolf's "Mage" games, that is EXACTLY how magic works. What a mage can do is determined by the force of his will and the strength of his belief in what he can do and how he can do it. (The consequences are heavily influenced by how many people see it happen and say "wait a minute, that's not possible!".) That is really interesting! I am so glad I read the discussion going on here, I never thought about Kat possibly becoming an angel because of the Robots beliefs, now that whole thing makes sense. I feel a bit dense that I've never thought about any of this....
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zerika
New Member
Meaning comes after the fact.
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Post by zerika on Aug 4, 2012 3:45:09 GMT
I think Coyote may have been there from the beginning as more of a, "possibility of existence." Possibility having an enormous power all on its own. But his manifestation was only completed through the misplaced "faith" of those who have fallen. Later to be reaffirmed by the living that saw him.
Either that or I'm babbling like a moron.
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Post by Georgie L on Aug 4, 2012 22:01:03 GMT
...and do you know why that is? That crack running through Coyote's narrative... I wonder if that implies that Coyote was used as an *excuse* for the creation of Annan Waters? Ah well! On Monday, all mysteries shall be revealed... as mysteries. Well if we take his secret as literally, people thought that Coyote created the annan waters so much that he retroactively always had done. I've postulated that there is no such thing as fiction, just tales from alternate universes. And if someone comes up with something that isn't from any existing alternate universe, the necessary universe is created - retroactively as necessary. Heck multiverse theory states that if it can happen it will happen in some universe somewhere. It's quantum applied to fiction. Thursday Next series is pretty meta in that belief too, the character goes through the book multi-verse fixing them so that they can become proper universes. Now we just need a way to traverse said dimensions and I would achieve my dream of becoming a time bandit. First thing I'd do is get a team of gunmen to hold up Gringotts. Wizards don't know 'bout bullets. A 12 year old boy could shoot faster than a bullet a spell which instantly petrifies you, I expect going into a bank full of Wizards with a gun would be like bringing a knife to a gun fight. Even with a team you'd still have quite a hard fight.
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Post by dante on Aug 4, 2012 23:07:49 GMT
shoot faster than a bullet [citation needed]
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Post by GK Sierra on Aug 4, 2012 23:30:04 GMT
shoot faster than a bullet [citation needed]It takes approximately two and a half seconds to fire thirty rounds from your standard AR variant. You could shoulder it, get a sight picture, and fire in about an eighth of a second. Doing a twirl with a birch stick and saying a phrase takes a little longer. Ex-*click*-spelliarmou-*doubletap* Now, if the wizards got the drop? Sure, we'd all be toads, but if the shoe is on the other foot, muggle weaponry has the distinct advantage. Still, robbing Gringotts is a terrible idea now that I think about it. You'd still have to deal with all those traps. And the blind dragons.
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Post by Lightice on Aug 5, 2012 0:19:59 GMT
Well if we take his secret as literally, people thought that Coyote created the annan waters so much that he retroactively always had done. I believe that he just created the gorge, not the river. Except that wizards have no idea how muggle technology works. They wouldn't recognise a gun if one was pressed to their head.
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Post by Marnath on Aug 5, 2012 5:01:22 GMT
Except that wizards have no idea how muggle technology works. They wouldn't recognise a gun if one was pressed to their head. I bet you'd pick up that it's a Bad Thing just from context. You may not recognize it as a weapon, but you will recognize that it's being directed at you in a threatening manner. Which doesn't help since by the time you figure that out you've already been shot.
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Post by GK Sierra on Aug 5, 2012 6:46:16 GMT
Except that wizards have no idea how muggle technology works. They wouldn't recognise a gun if one was pressed to their head. I bet you'd pick up that it's a Bad Thing just from context. You may not recognize it as a weapon, but you will recognize that it's being directed at you in a threatening manner. Which doesn't help since by the time you figure that out you've already been shot. Blam! W-what spell did you... *hackcoughcough* cast on me? It's called hydrostatic shock Harry. Just relax.
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Post by crmsnfrn on Aug 5, 2012 15:10:59 GMT
Tiber Septim was a king of men before Akatosh inducted him as the Ninth Divine, Talos. [delurk] Just want to say, I love you for this Elder Scrolls reference. [relurk]
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Post by negativeproximity on Aug 5, 2012 17:41:42 GMT
It takes approximately two and a half seconds to fire thirty rounds from your standard AR variant. You could shoulder it, get a sight picture, and fire in about an eighth of a second. Doing a twirl with a birch stick and saying a phrase takes a little longer. Ex-*click*-spelliarmou-*doubletap* Now, if the wizards got the drop? Sure, we'd all be toads, but if the shoe is on the other foot, muggle weaponry has the distinct advantage. Still, robbing Gringotts is a terrible idea now that I think about it. You'd still have to deal with all those traps. And the blind dragons. Also, if you ever paid attention to harry potter, the adult wizards seem to not need all the words and twirling as the kids do.
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Rea
Junior Member
Posts: 53
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Post by Rea on Aug 5, 2012 20:06:22 GMT
One more guess at what Coyote's saying, before we (hopefully) learn more: He doesn't exist in the physical world. Unlike Ysengrin or Renard or Annie etc, he's purely etheric. People just think they see him.
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Post by Befuddlement on Aug 6, 2012 0:31:22 GMT
Now we just need a way to traverse said dimensions and I would achieve my dream of becoming a time bandit. First thing I'd do is get a team of gunmen to hold up Gringotts. Wizards don't know 'bout bullets. If only we knew which of the 6^6^6 parallel universes Harry Potter takes place in.
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