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Post by Raph on May 16, 2012 7:06:27 GMT
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Post by Eversist on May 16, 2012 7:08:15 GMT
(might want to add the comic # to the thread title, for easy findings). The clip is back!
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Post by hoskins88 on May 16, 2012 7:11:12 GMT
The pigeon has always been whispering the secrets of the universe to kat. Though this does kind of confirm what a lot of people had guessed, that Kat is the first person Annie was real with
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Post by exuberancium on May 16, 2012 7:11:17 GMT
I still understand nothing.
I really like that art on this page though.
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Post by Raph on May 16, 2012 7:13:13 GMT
Oh, I think I get it! (what is happening here, at least) She's handed the mask by Jones, which could be interpreted as her telling Annie to keep to herself in the forest, then we are taken to the tree where she first removed the mask.
Having worn the mask has repressed her too much so her inner fire is actually going out!
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Post by Raph on May 16, 2012 7:16:21 GMT
The pigeon has always been whispering the secrets of the universe to kat. Though this does kind of confirm what a lot of people had guessed, that Kat is the first person Annie was real with I wonder what kind of marvelous things she's been told, given the fact City Face is always in a good mood. I disagree, however, with the second part; she must have gotten that "mask" at some point, which I believe will ultimately lead us to her parents.
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bingli
Full Member
creepin' creepin'
Posts: 104
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Post by bingli on May 16, 2012 7:19:13 GMT
hello is this the page thread then?
I'll just treat it like it is!
I am still holding on to my theory that this process is mostly about Kat and this is the process of her going through her feelings about her friendship with Annie, her insecurities, and a way of unifying some of the inconsistencies and confusion she has been feeling.
The thing with 'guy known to us as Kamlen' could be a reflection of Kat's jealousy of Annie's natural feminine side, or anxiety that she could move ahead of Kat in romance. Jones showing up naked made me think of some homosexual ideas randomly surfacing regardless of Kat's actual orientation, or perhaps Jones showing up as a female identified protecting and guiding figure to Annie that she may turn to for help (thus the intimacy in the imagery). The mask seems to represent how much Kat doesn't know about Anni's feelings and what she went through in the forest (the smile made me think of how Annie was so much happier when she came back from the forest, its a major life change that Kat wasn't there for, perhaps leading her to feel alienated from her friend).
And now, going back to an earlier and somewhat more innocent time when Kat was more or less the one shoulder that Annie could lean on and a person she opened up to completely. It's an important memory and one of my favorite chapters of this comic.
Even if the focus of the chapter turns out not to be about this process of figuring out what the friendship and growing process means to Kat, I like to think at least part of the chapter is about this.
Yeah I know that Kat is unaware of what Zimmy sees. That's why I suggested it could be her subconscious at work, you aren't supposed to be aware of it...its below (sub) the conscious. Yes this is a far fetched idea but the reason why I think it could be consistent is because Kat also can't see the pigeon even though it somehow a reflection of her thoughts, but Zimmy (and Gamma) can.
And I think Zimmy is hearing the pigeon (Kat's thoughts) and that is where she got the name Kamlen from, it seems to flow in the dialogue for me.
Anyways these theories are just my personal bias. Mostly I like them because they feel intuitive to me.
EDIT: and also on the last page Zimmy asks "you dont see any of this?" as if there is a reason why Kat should.
EDIT: Pigeon's really scared eye reaction to Zimmy saying that there is a green dude gettin' naughty with Kat's main babe lawl
EDIT NUMBER FIVE THOUSSSAND!!: I also don't see the reason why Rey, Robot, and Shadow are unanimated here if we are in Annie's head, or Zimmy's head, or any other scenario requiring everything to be kind of more real.
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Post by Alexandragon on May 16, 2012 7:20:03 GMT
Aww... Cute moment) So that is real Annie...
Also: Annie's hair is more vivid and bright at the end of the process of transformation. So she felt more alive then, or is it just lighting?
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Post by Eversist on May 16, 2012 7:23:11 GMT
I thought the mask was just Annie's mask, in general, not necessarily how it applies to Kat.
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Post by porcupineadvocate on May 16, 2012 7:24:39 GMT
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bingli
Full Member
creepin' creepin'
Posts: 104
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Post by bingli on May 16, 2012 7:26:25 GMT
Tom's probably just sampling the old color for consistency? Hair color can change with age.
EDIT: and yes, lighting!
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Post by Eversist on May 16, 2012 7:27:22 GMT
Yes, thank you, we hadn't caught the reference. Sorry for the sarcasm. X3 -- Edit: Someone just said something interesting on the chans (sorry if this theory has been posted already, I usually don't read posts that are more than three paragraphs long). I need to post it here. "Ok now I think I know whats going on. The stuff we're seeing isn't directly related to whatever's wrong, we're just going through her brainspace LOOKING for whats wrong and have to dig through all this chaff to find it."
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Post by porcupineadvocate on May 16, 2012 7:54:17 GMT
The link was for convenience!
The mask seems too symbolic for this to be 'chaff'.
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Post by tigerising on May 16, 2012 8:01:38 GMT
-- Edit: Someone just said something interesting on the chans (sorry if this theory has been posted already, I usually don't read posts that are more than three paragraphs long). I need to post it here. "Ok now I think I know whats going on. The stuff we're seeing isn't directly related to whatever's wrong, we're just going through her brainspace LOOKING for whats wrong and have to dig through all this chaff to find it." More than likely. The question is, what's the problem? Was it Kamlen's fault? Or Kat's, or Jones? Also, this page made me choke up. Clearly these are scenes of some significance to her.
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Post by mcbibble on May 16, 2012 8:01:50 GMT
I am loving this chapter. My favourites are always the ones where you're not sure what Tom's actually doing until the last minute, and then a few days after the last minute, LAUGHING ON LINE. So I'm delurking! Hello!
I like the idea that this is just incidental stuff we're seeing here- Kamlen and Jones playing on annie's mind (naked, for some reason), and then at the heart of it all, the only person she has left...
I'd like to pose a question to the forums frequent fliers- throughout this last chapter and recent history, I've noticed you guys are kind of deliberately ignoring the fairly obvious subtext here. I mean, the Katimony subtext. Kat is explicitly going through a sexuality crisis right now- why, and how it turns out are beside the point. It doesn't feel like many people here are even willing to acknowledge the possibility; your minds are closed to the idea on what seems a lot like principal. Then you have this page, where Annie makes a direct swerve from thinking about fairly sexual encounters with creatures of both genders to thinking about her perfect moment with her main babe. Now, I wouldn't call myself a shipper- I've always read gunnerkrigg for what it is at any given time, and enjoyed it. But these last few chapters have really made me think "well! Huh. Maybe it really will go there." And I don't think that's completely without grounding, not at all in fact. I'd say you'd have to be wearing subtext-filtration goggles to read it and not even consider that.
So can I ask- why aren't people more open to this possibility?
EDIT: haha, is el oh el a taboo here? WTF
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Post by warrl on May 16, 2012 8:02:14 GMT
Thanks, I was going to go looking for that and post the link for comparisons.
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Post by chaoticrogue on May 16, 2012 8:15:45 GMT
So... am I the only one who didn't notice that the pigeon is on Kat's head in the final panel at first?
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Post by jasmijn on May 16, 2012 8:23:57 GMT
And so is the mask. Maybe that was one of the moments she didn't hide her true emotions. That was pretty much what I was going to say.
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Post by GK Sierra on May 16, 2012 8:32:52 GMT
Ho hum. Everyone's favorite cherry tree!
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Post by Eversist on May 16, 2012 9:12:55 GMT
[...large post I actually read...] So can I ask- why aren't people more open to this possibility? I think people are just tired of talking about it. And others don't want the threads to degrade into shipping discussions; I've noticed as a whole the forum tries to avoid having topics being taken over by that. It's been discussed, and I'm sure it's at the back of everyone's minds. But I think people are just reluctant to bring it up now. I'm sure many people are hoping for it to go in that direction, don't think for one second that that's not true, hah. But I think people prefer to see where Tom's going to take it, rather than read into something that's possibly not there (shock and awe, for this forum). Especially since Tom's given some indication (some in, some out of comic) that that's not going to happen. Yeah, and Tom doesn't like chat speak. I think he mentions that in the rules thread if I'm not mistaken.
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Post by mcbibble on May 16, 2012 9:25:28 GMT
Especially since Tom's given some indication (some in, some out of comic) that that's not going to happen. Really? Now that's interesting. Where? What was said? And that sort of explains things a bit. It's odd, the relationship between fandom and the text. So you guys fatigued yourself on the Katimony question before it was relevant and, now that it is relevant you don't want to talk about it? I find it odd in a comic that begs analysis on every level, and receives it on most, is being read discussed in a deliberately limited way. Although I would contest that nobody wants to talk about it. Quite a lot of discussion is happening- people reiterating the same reasons Kat can't be gay over and over again. I admit a part of me is seeing homophobia, there. If Kat were a guy, everyone would ship it I think.
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Post by foxurus on May 16, 2012 10:24:07 GMT
I believe Tom expressed dislike for shipping, but that long was before Kat started questioning her sexuality, so I think we're more than qualified to discuss it now. Guys? What is that thing in the background? D: At first I thought it was Bob, but why is he so... frayed? My second thought was that it's one of Zimmy's nightmare-things, but we're in Annie's head now (I belive) so I'm not sure about that. Maybe it's Bob, but since he wasn't very important to that memory for Annie, she doesn't quite remember him fully? Also, oh gosh they looked adorable as kids with the new art style. <3
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Post by eightyfour on May 16, 2012 10:30:48 GMT
Guys? What is that thing in the background? D: At first I thought it was Bob, but why is he so... frayed? That would be Zimmy, taking Bob's place as an observer in this "vision".
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Post by mcbibble on May 16, 2012 10:34:15 GMT
I believe Tom expressed dislike for shipping, but that long was before Kat started questioning her sexuality, so I think we're more than qualified to discuss it now. Oh believe me, I understand disliking shipping. Especially when shippers get proprietary about the ship, and act like the author owes them the resolution they decided on; that behaviour baffles and angers me. Particularly in fandoms where the author and the fans interact- if I were a writer, oh my god I would murder the darkhorse favourite and sink every ship out of pure spite, if I saw even a shadow of the bad behaviour I've seen in other fandoms. But purely from the point of view of someone who really loves this comic, I do want to talk about what would be a fairly huge development in the story! A game changer, even. Kat and Annie's platonic love has been the heart of this comic from the start. Everything that happens, does so within the frame of their relationship. If that changed, everything would change. So it's worth talking about.
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Post by goldenknots on May 16, 2012 11:26:05 GMT
In this version of the cherry tree incident Kat is looking worried. Annie's eyes remain closed, as they have throughout. I'm still not entirely sure whose head we're in at this point...
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Post by arabesque on May 16, 2012 11:29:03 GMT
I love seeing this old scene redrawn. It really shows off the improvement in the style of the comic.
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Post by Lightice on May 16, 2012 11:49:51 GMT
So, does this mean that Zimmy managed to give Kat a glimpse of Annie's subconscious, as well? The Kat under the cherry tree has a pidgeon on her head... EDIT: Oh, and Zimmy's red hair lines are back. I'm very confused. Nowhere. Some people have been sending questions about the subject to Tom at his Formspring account, and the answers have always been opaque. There'd be a little point for this character arc if the answers were already out there. It's a question that'll certainly be addressed over time, since it's been brought up in the comic in the first place, but I won't start speculating on how it'll end up.
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flutters
New Member
I was in the darkness, so darkness I became.
Posts: 11
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Post by flutters on May 16, 2012 11:55:35 GMT
This page is giving me so many feels and I can't figure out why.
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Post by mcbibble on May 16, 2012 12:44:35 GMT
but I won't start speculating on how it'll end up. [/quote] That's probably a good rule for any given storyline in gunnerkrigg. I am interested in speculating about what is happening right now, which is an equally tricky business. With that said: if this is happening in Annie's head, what does it mean? If this is happening in Kat's head, what does it mean? If this is happening in Jone's head, does that mean Jones is a robot? I mean, I think we can safely say that these are two main babes right here. For sure. But beyond that I go a little crosseyed.
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Post by kozelek1 on May 16, 2012 14:15:26 GMT
In this version of the cherry tree incident Kat is looking worried. Annie's eyes remain closed, as they have throughout. I'm still not entirely sure whose head we're in at this point... This actually makes me think that we are in Kat's head as she still has the head pigeon and Annie seems almost unchanged according to how the event took place. This could also explain the mask as a way to say that Annie has been becoming more of a medium and less of the person that Kat grew up with but she is seeing her without that mask when they visited the cherry tree. It could also explain why the faces behind "Kamlen" appeared to be evil and frankly quite spooky to me at least as Kat is not particularly fond of the woods.
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