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Post by dbthelinguaphile on Dec 2, 2011 15:13:18 GMT
...which makes me think of vibroswords.
Shadow can change shapes, can't it? Shadow2 becomes Parley's shapeshifting vibrating shadow sword. *hopes Tom is reading forums*
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Post by smjjames on Dec 2, 2011 15:18:55 GMT
Tom definetly reads the forums all right, even though he either stays invisible or only logs in when he wants to post.
Shadow2 becoming a vibrosword would be cool, however Tom keeps a 30 day buffer (about two or three months worth) of comics, so we might see that in the future.
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Post by Afalstein on Dec 2, 2011 15:47:15 GMT
Shadow 2's behavior fits with a traditional death scene (particularly the "I don't feel so good..." line), but Tom's somewhat flippant comment "shifting dimensions" implies that there's nothing terribly sad happening here. Generally he holds off on the more serious strips. It does seem like the sword had more consequences than we thought, though.
Also, Shadow and Robot are quite obviously very close now. Robot seems very concerned for Shadow, and if he DOES end up dying, Robot could take it very badly. Particularly against Coyote and Gilltie Wood.
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Post by aaroncampbell on Dec 2, 2011 15:57:36 GMT
So did Shadow2's arm in panel 7 remind anyone else of an unspooled casette tape, or just me? Because that's going to be a pain to roll up. Quick, somebody get a pencil!
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Kuraimizu
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Post by Kuraimizu on Dec 2, 2011 15:58:05 GMT
So is Pearl just a nickname, or affectionate name, like 'sweetie'? Or is there something more to it? Pearl is an affectionate nickname for Parley. Used by Only Smitty. As for Shadow, he is experiencing a dimensional version of the Bends, or Decompression sickness. Shadow has always been 2D but being able to experience and navigate a 3D world, by moving along the surfaces of objects. it would be similar to we as 3D beings being able to move along the surfaces of a 4D world. and suddenly being able to move across 4D space. Shadow I'm guessing is disoriented, and feeling very nauseous. and now using muscles that he didn't know he had, I imagine he is experiencing a version of muscle cramps. It is possible Annie might be able to heal Shadow, or at least be able to offer a better diagnosis. Whether Shadow will live though this or become the first casualty of plot. I'm afraid none of us can tell. Hopefully Shadow Lives. and from this experience he should now be able to move along surfaces as well as through the air. He'll even be able to pick up things I'd imagine. Personally I'm guessing Shadow will be fine after he readjusts. And now he has a whole new way to experience the world. He'll actually be able to walk along-side his friends.
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Post by smjjames on Dec 2, 2011 16:11:37 GMT
So did Shadow2's arm in panel 7 remind anyone else of an unspooled casette tape, or just me? Because that's going to be a pain to roll up. Quick, somebody get a pencil! He extruded it, so I'm sure he can absorb it back up. @afal: While it is the traditional line, Shadow feeling horrible doesn't neccesarily mean he is dying. Like Kuraimizu, me, and a few others were saying, he is suddendly able to move in a way he couldn't, or thought he couldn't (latent ability maybe? I wonder if Coyote even knows that Shadow2 exists on the court side.). Kurai probably described it best. @kurai: You mean time travel? I get what you're saying, however time is thought of or accepted as the fourth dimension. Although as far as the fourth dimension goes, we're talking about hypercubes and stuff I think. Edit: Oh yea, assuming he lives, he'll have a hard time with much more than a breeze since he is almost weightless, unless he sticks to surfaces in such a situation.
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Post by foxurus on Dec 2, 2011 16:23:39 GMT
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Post by legion on Dec 2, 2011 16:24:28 GMT
Now Shadow2 knows how Mario felt when the Nintento64 came out.
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Post by smjjames on Dec 2, 2011 16:30:26 GMT
It could be both the floor and the air, he's still touching the floor with parts of him. Which would be partly why his voice sounds somewhat distorted (I think). Edit: I just realized someting, if Shadow can now move in 3D, will he be able to 3Dify himself so that he is no longer a flat 2D membrane?
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Kuraimizu
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Post by Kuraimizu on Dec 2, 2011 16:36:43 GMT
@kurai: You mean time travel? I get what you're saying, however time is thought of or accepted as the fourth dimension. Although as far as the fourth dimension goes, we're talking about hypercubes and stuff I think. I wasn't meaning time, which is usually identified as the 4th Dimension. I was Using 4D as representing 4 unique directional dimensions. More along the lines of plotting a hypercube. a thought experiment. In a 4D scenario Time would be the 5th Dimension. I personally think of the universe as 11 or 12 dimensional 3 Directional Dimensions 6 Quantum Dimensions and 2 or 3 temporal dimensions which leads to my personal theory of Gravity. but that is another story, for another thread. Same way your vocal chords work. Shadow just doesn't use lungs. which leads to the question how is he amplifying the sound? I'm going to guess amplitude, similar to how a speaker works. I just realized someting, if Shadow can now move in 3D, will he be able to 3Dify himself so that he is no longer a flat 2D membrane? I think Shadow will always be 2D.
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Post by basser on Dec 2, 2011 17:13:46 GMT
Okay, this is sad and all but to be fair I don't think the best location to be during a sword fight is inside a participant's clothing. Along with Annie's handing Parley a magic crazy powerful weapon before explaining how dangerous it is and Parley dropping said weapon like a chump I think we should consider renaming this chapter 'Poor Safety Decisions (with Parley and Smitty)'.
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Post by atteSmythe on Dec 2, 2011 17:50:00 GMT
I'm surprised by all the reactions to 'Pearl' - Parley -> Parl -> Pearl seems pretty natural to me.
I'm really hoping Shadow is okay here. Not only is he an excellent character, but he stabilizes robot. If Kat is the Angel (associated with the blue of the sky, light, life, innovation), what does that make Annie (associated with red, fire, death, and now violence) in his sermon?
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Post by Spades Slick on Dec 2, 2011 18:18:00 GMT
Could be? That IS how sounds tend to travel from source to destination: by vibrating air molecules to transfer the initial pressure wave.
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eoayn
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Post by eoayn on Dec 2, 2011 20:08:58 GMT
I just find it pretty... cool(? For lack of a better term) that Shadow doesn't just simply "anchors" anymore using the real world, but that he actually has the sensation of touch now!
Think about it!
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Post by poptropicagirl on Dec 2, 2011 20:42:32 GMT
I doubt that Parley will be willing to use the sword after this. Especially if Shadow dies! Wahh! Here's a question: will Shadow become tangible? Or will your hand pass right through him? I'm guessing the second one.
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Post by King Mir on Dec 2, 2011 20:47:31 GMT
I wasn't meaning time, which is usually identified as the 4th Dimension. I was Using 4D as representing 4 unique directional dimensions. More along the lines of plotting a hypercube. a thought experiment. In a 4D scenario Time would be the 5th Dimension. I personally think of the universe as 11 or 12 dimensional 3 Directional Dimensions 6 Quantum Dimensions and 2 or 3 temporal dimensions which leads to my personal theory of Gravity. but that is another story, for another thread. The problem is, we perceive 3 dimensions, and move in 3. Shadow can perceive 3 dimensions and move in 2. So the analogy doesn't hold. Also, seeing the fourth spacial dimension is hard to picture. One can imagine traveling on the surface of a Tesseract, and model how the sides would appear as rooms that shift around as you move from surface to surface, but then there is no way to look out. You can also imagine a slice of a Tesseract in 3d space, which could look like wide array of polyhedrons, but that doesn't let you picture the fouth dimension either. The one connection we can make to 4D is shadow can now be flipped over, which would be like finding yourself with your heart on the right side, or the world changed on right and left. Also, personal theory of gravity? It takes some serious understanding of modern physics and mathematics to have anything approaching plausible and scientific. Its cool if you do though. Vocal chords work because there is a steady stream of air running by them. You can sub-vocalize, and move your vocal cords without moving air through them, and without making a sound. But I'm willing to give Tom some license with this issue. The double slit setup at the beginning of Medium Beginning bothered me more.
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Spike
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Post by Spike on Dec 2, 2011 20:48:41 GMT
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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Post by atteSmythe on Dec 2, 2011 20:55:38 GMT
Vocal chords work because there is a steady stream of air running by them. You can sub-vocalize, and move your vocal cords without moving air through them, and without making a sound. The way a paper cone loudspeaker works, then.
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Post by smjjames on Dec 2, 2011 21:03:35 GMT
@king Mir: A diphagram would be a better example actually, a drum or tambourine head is a diphagram, and speakers use them as well.
It wasn't really explained how he was vibrating on a surface, whether he was making part of him 'rigid' and using part of himself as a diphagram or vibrating against a surface.
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Post by nero on Dec 2, 2011 21:09:43 GMT
The last two pages didn't really affect me but this one really made me almost tear up. I'm hoping Shadow 2 is okay and that the next page will show him starting to walk upright in a kind of creepy way until he gets more stable.
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Post by stephen on Dec 2, 2011 22:08:27 GMT
If someone shoved us off a building, would that mean we've gained the ability to fly?
If someone cut Shadow off of the floor, does that mean he's gained the survive off of surfaces?
I'm pretty sure those questions are similar. Shadow creatures aren't "trapped" on surfaces, that's just where and how they exist. I feel like they "evolved" to live on flat surfaces like shadows, as protection. Their nature is meant for 2D. Coyote's tooth has pried Shadow 2 off of the surface, and the question is: can he get himself back on the surface again, or has he lost his ability to flatten?
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Post by starburst98 on Dec 2, 2011 22:35:25 GMT
coyote MADE the shadow-men whole cloth. he used his godly power to make his own people, but LAUGHED during the creation. Shadow just came in direct contact with a part of his CREATOR, and it's LAUGHING. if a laugh was what bound them to shadows, then another laugh can free them.
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Post by King Mir on Dec 2, 2011 22:44:38 GMT
@king Mir: A diphagram would be a better example actually, a drum or tambourine head is a diphagram, and speakers use them as well. It wasn't really explained how he was vibrating on a surface, whether he was making part of him 'rigid' and using part of himself as a diphagram or vibrating against a surface. Trouble is, if he's unstuck now, then he must have been firmly stuck before. That means that there was no air gap between him and the surface, and the sound comes from vibrating the surface, not making himself into a diaphragm. Also, doing it the other way, he would have trouble making himself into a diaphragm now since he's clearly having a hard time making himself rigid. It's easier to be rigid when you got something to hold onto. It's easier to vibrate a surface that way too. So in principle he should be silent or very quiet now.
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Post by King Mir on Dec 2, 2011 22:48:49 GMT
coyote MADE the shadow-men whole cloth. he used his godly power to make his own people, but LAUGHED during the creation. Shadow just came in direct contact with a part of his CREATOR, and it's LAUGHING. if a laugh was what bound them to shadows, then another laugh can free them. That's suitably poetic. Speaking of which, does anyone have a link to the original myth that inspired these people?
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Post by smjjames on Dec 2, 2011 23:22:49 GMT
I don't think it was any one myth that inspired these people, I tried to google it and didn't really come up with a solid reference. I did manage to find one that seemed pretty close (one where Coyote created man and woman, or something), but I don't remember the tribe, one of the Northwestern tribes or Western tribes in general
It's safe to say that it's from various Native American myths since Coyote is viewed as a trickster in pretty much every Native American mythology he appears in.
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Post by Ulysses on Dec 2, 2011 23:43:09 GMT
This is either going to end horribly, or really epically. I can't see it being the latter though - reaching up to touch a friend/loved one's face is a sure Hollywood sign that someone is about to die.
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Kuraimizu
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Post by Kuraimizu on Dec 3, 2011 0:00:13 GMT
reaching up to touch a friend/loved one's face is a sure Hollywood sign that someone is about to die. That is one of the most cliche movie cliches. from reading gunnerkrigg, we don't see many cliches if ever. I really don't think Tom will kill Shadow. besides in the court death isn't the end anyways. there is Mort floating around, after all. and besides Annie would notice if one of the psychopomps was around. and would demand it show it's presence to her friends. also This is a Glass Eyed Shadow, given life by Coyote Himself. Shadow can't die until Coyote himself says it is Shadow's time to die.
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Post by Ulysses on Dec 3, 2011 0:15:28 GMT
As far as I know Coyote isn't a psychopomp, he's some kind of god. Plus he loves chaos, I can't see him having ultimate control over the lifetimes of his creations, although finding out his own tooth killed one of them might worry him for a while. As much as I don't want it to happen I think it's entirely possible Shadow2 could die here. Cliches are cliches for a reason. For people who were asking about how Shadow2 can talk, the answer is found on this page.
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Post by smjjames on Dec 3, 2011 0:16:08 GMT
also This is a Glass Eyed Shadow, given life by Coyote Himself. Shadow can't die until Coyote himself says it is Shadow's time to die. Not really, Eglamore killed one in an earlier chapter. It would make more sense that Coyote wouldn't want to kill his own creations. Ulysses: He is a god, just a step or two below a full on creator deity. Or maybe on the level of a creator diety, it's hard to define levels of power among gods in the GC universe when we only know of a few of them (the Great Spirit, the highest Native American diety in Coyotes usual realm, or possibly THE creator god of everything, included.).
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Post by TBeholder on Dec 3, 2011 4:44:41 GMT
A wwwww-ye. the glass eyed men were created because coyote laughed while making them. seems another laugh changed shadow. Hey, good point. Anyway, he can meaningfully move in 3D without dissolving into tatters or even rolling up, so this strange condition probably is not life-threatening in itself. Antimony will be impatient to press on with the project, but less obvious about it than she was after the encounter with Jeanne, having grown considerably since then. She seems to be gone off the tracks pretty hard too. Annie tend to be The Unflappable One when dealing with strange stuff, but don't forget - just before this she lived a summer among the glass-eyed men and by now is used to deal with their normal shadow mechanics. It could be both the floor and the air, he's still touching the floor with parts of him. Which would be partly why his voice sounds somewhat distorted Aaand the air gives less resistance than he used to have, especially in the Court, so he used to be plastered on a surface and now flaps around too much... that would explain why the voice is unstable too.
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