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Post by Goatmon on Nov 23, 2011 16:54:51 GMT
For some reason, I'm reminded of the Subtle Knife from the book of the same name. Do you think Parley could do something like that by accident when she teleports? On an unrelated note, Parley looks super pretty in panel 4. I thought of that when someone mentioned losing fingers.
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Post by Mylian on Nov 23, 2011 16:57:23 GMT
Now Parley must pose with the Tooth because SCHEISSE JUST GOT REAL.
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Post by smjjames on Nov 23, 2011 17:02:47 GMT
"Coyote's tooth. This is the weapon of an etheric swordfighter. Not as heavy or as clumsy as a langschwert, but an elegant weapon for a more civilized age." "Also, be care with it, because it could cut the very earth." ;D Hopefully the hilt and the handle will keep it from plunging to earths core should anybody drop it.
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BingsF
Junior Member
Posts: 92
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Post by BingsF on Nov 23, 2011 20:59:34 GMT
Haha yes! Team pose!
Everybody seems to be reeeally wanting our heroes to tiptoe around the usage of this Tooth. I'm not so sure there's all that much to worry about. I mean, here's Parley practicing with a real sword, and certainly Annie and all the rest have handled dangerous objects before; I think they know to be careful enough not to just go chucking it around at stuff.
As for the whole "cut the very earth"... well, never take what Coyote says at face value. Clearly the Tooth does have some special powers, but it's still pretty unclear just what those are yet.
Since we know Coyote (says he) doesn't know much about Jeanne, I'd like to revisit Coyote's motivation in giving Annie the Tooth in the first place. He obviously did mean to give it to her specifically, despite his rather lame attempt at passing it off as an "apology gift"... like he didn't know Annie would be upset with his trick anyway. The only real thing we know about Coyote's motivations in general is that his actions are generally governed solely by what he feels to be amusing (Tom had an old Formspring answer that said something to this effect... I'm sure it's still on the wiki somewhere). So the way I would have to look at it is, just what is the joke here? Hmm.
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Post by fuzzysocks on Nov 23, 2011 21:13:25 GMT
Did everyone forget that Annie can't tell anyone about the tooth because her hand will fall off? www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=826www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=849Well... he did say forest and not exactly at the school... but I'm pretty sure it's implied unless he's being coyote-ish and in fact taking what he says literally. Though Annie is saying 'anybody'... so I'm pretty sure if she tells anyone about it her hand will fall off. And I'm not sure if the binding went away or if she's just hiding it. I'm confusing myself now because of the way Reynardine phrases it. He's saying the sentence in present tense versus past tense... so I feel that it possibly is still there.
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BingsF
Junior Member
Posts: 92
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Post by BingsF on Nov 23, 2011 22:02:32 GMT
I think it's pretty clear the binding falls off in [849] and is no longer in effect. And Annie says 'anybody' in reference to her time at the forest, as that's the context they're talking about. Also, she's obviously told Renard about it, and he's more forest-oriented than most others at the Court, so if she can tell Renard safely, she can tell anyone.
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Post by joephlommin on Nov 24, 2011 0:19:11 GMT
Did everyone forget that Annie can't tell anyone about the tooth because her hand will fall off? www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=826www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=849Well... he did say forest and not exactly at the school... but I'm pretty sure it's implied unless he's being coyote-ish and in fact taking what he says literally. Though Annie is saying 'anybody'... so I'm pretty sure if she tells anyone about it her hand will fall off. And I'm not sure if the binding went away or if she's just hiding it. I'm confusing myself now because of the way Reynardine phrases it. He's saying the sentence in present tense versus past tense... so I feel that it possibly is still there. Look at that second page closely.
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Post by nero on Nov 24, 2011 2:19:20 GMT
If Parley can use the Coyote knife then it might be as a last resort when fighting Jeanne gets difficult or she realizes what Annie and the others are up to. I don't think the Coyote knife will have a strong effect in the etheric plane, it may cut physical matter but it would probably be like any other weapon in the etheric plane.
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Post by crater on Nov 24, 2011 2:51:29 GMT
Yes, Parley, bask in it's all mighty power. With this sword you can take the world
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Post by fuzzysocks on Nov 24, 2011 2:58:03 GMT
Did everyone forget that Annie can't tell anyone about the tooth because her hand will fall off? www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=826www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=849Well... he did say forest and not exactly at the school... but I'm pretty sure it's implied unless he's being coyote-ish and in fact taking what he says literally. Though Annie is saying 'anybody'... so I'm pretty sure if she tells anyone about it her hand will fall off. And I'm not sure if the binding went away or if she's just hiding it. I'm confusing myself now because of the way Reynardine phrases it. He's saying the sentence in present tense versus past tense... so I feel that it possibly is still there. Look at that second page closely. I don't need you to be condescending... I told you why I was confused via Reynardine's phrasing. And that it could be possible that the mark was being hidden. And as for Reynardine knowing, I couldn't remember if he already knew or not via the stipulation. Obviously she told him BEFORE the mark got removed because he told her he kept it safe. :\
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Post by fuzzysocks on Nov 24, 2011 3:08:39 GMT
I think it's pretty clear the binding falls off in [849] and is no longer in effect. And Annie says 'anybody' in reference to her time at the forest, as that's the context they're talking about. Also, she's obviously told Renard about it, and he's more forest-oriented than most others at the Court, so if she can tell Renard safely, she can tell anyone. I realize that it is indeed just the time in the forest that Coyote had said. Reynardine however, already knew of the tooth before hand, otherwise he wouldn't have watched it for Antimony... like I said, it was his phrasing that caught me off guard. If he had said, "Coyote had put a binding on you?" vs. "Coyote put a binding on you?" I probably would have been less confused. At the same time though, I also realized that not anyone speaks perfect English anymore or in fact generally never and that it flows more naturally without the 'had'.
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Post by lunaryon on Nov 24, 2011 3:39:34 GMT
You do realize that cutting the very earth isn't all that hard. Depending on the type of ground you have around. I can take a butter knife and stab it into dirt and therefore cut the earth. Something tells me that this blade will be awesome, but nowhere near as awesome as everyone has made it out to be.
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Post by smjjames on Nov 24, 2011 4:36:57 GMT
You do realize that cutting the very earth isn't all that hard. Depending on the type of ground you have around. I can take a butter knife and stab it into dirt and therefore cut the earth. Something tells me that this blade will be awesome, but nowhere near as awesome as everyone has made it out to be. Well yea, or a spade, and a spade isn't all that sharp. We probably should take Coyotes words at face value, since we don't actually know what the value is. Maybe it will slice through metal as if it were butter (or just use a plasma arc cutter), maybe not, its complete speculation here. However, there is a reason why Coyote wanted to have Annie keep it a secret while in the forest, whether to keep other denziens from accusing him of favoritism, keep the inevitable rush of people asking for such an awesome weaoin, or even to test whether Annie can keep a secret. We should note that when he first gave her the Tooth, he didn't say anything about keeping it secret, although she doen't seem to have told anybody other than Renard about it.
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Post by ivanduzer on Nov 24, 2011 5:55:39 GMT
If he had said, "Coyote had put a binding on you?" vs. "Coyote put a binding on you?" I probably would have been less confused. At the same time though, I also realized that not anyone speaks perfect English anymore or in fact generally never and that it flows more naturally without the 'had'. Sorry, English major here... "Put" is already in the past tense, so Tom in fact was writing in "perfect English." For example: Notice, "put" refers to an action that happened in the past. Similarly: Once again: past tense. What may be confusing you is the fact that put is a verb, so it can also refer to events in the near future (ie "Put my book over there"). But it doesn't apply to the present; because it's a verb, it takes a different form when it's happening right now (the word in this case is putting). "Had put" also suggests that the action had happened but was later negated. Should Reynardine have used "had put"? No, because he is asking about a particular moment in the past, when the binding had not yet been dismissed. He was referring to the events of strip 826 and not 849. The binding wasn't gone during strip 826, so therefore "had" is a useless word. Sorry for the off-topic rant; like I said, English major. I'm pretty much hardwired to be a bit of a grammar nazi. ON TOPIC: Does someone want to post the page where Coyote's tooth becomes a sword? I'm pretty sure I only ever saw it drawn/referred to as a knife. Just out of curiosity, although I'm sure Parley might have a bit of trouble making the transition from a long sword requiring two hands to a knife.
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Post by joephlommin on Nov 24, 2011 6:28:09 GMT
I think when he says "Cut the earth" He means stone. Just sayin.
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BingsF
Junior Member
Posts: 92
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Post by BingsF on Nov 24, 2011 7:30:33 GMT
I realize that it is indeed just the time in the forest that Coyote had said. Reynardine however, already knew of the tooth before hand, otherwise he wouldn't have watched it for Antimony... like I said, it was his phrasing that caught me off guard. If he had said, "Coyote had put a binding on you?" vs. "Coyote put a binding on you?" I probably would have been less confused. At the same time though, I also realized that not anyone speaks perfect English anymore or in fact generally never and that it flows more naturally without the 'had'. Ah, yes, I can see where you're coming from now. I forgot Annie would have told Renard much before the binding was put on. But the panel where the binding appears to come off, I took that to mean that Coyote somehow enchanted it to disengage once it was exposed outside the forest, and so it's permanently gone now. However, there is a reason why Coyote wanted to have Annie keep it a secret while in the forest, whether to keep other denziens from accusing him of favoritism, keep the inevitable rush of people asking for such an awesome weaoin, or even to test whether Annie can keep a secret. We should note that when he first gave her the Tooth, he didn't say anything about keeping it secret, although she doen't seem to have told anybody other than Renard about it. Personally I'm leaning towards avoiding any perceived favoritism, only because we know that most of the forest is quite not-human-friendly, so I can't see them approving of Coyote's gift, especially those like Ysengrin. Not that they could do anything about it though. As for a test, I would think that Coyote would come up with something much more clever and/or fun (for him) in order to test someone. Something else comes to mind: Coyote's gift to Reynardine. He gives him the ability to take bodies, and in that case "give" is literal; Coyote now cannot use that particular ability while Reynardine still has it. Also noting that the gift, in Reynardine's hands, is imperfect. I wonder if there could be something similar at play here with the Coyote Tooth. If this is the case, then I can certainly see why Coyote would not want Annie spreading that around... and it would also mean that the Tooth could potentially be a lot more important than Annie imagines. Thoughts on this parallel?
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neal
Full Member
Posts: 166
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Post by neal on Nov 24, 2011 7:40:49 GMT
I had taken the panel in which the binding comes off as meaning that, well, the binding was no longer in effect. That the physical thing-on-her-wrist was also representative of the contract, if you will. When it dissolved, so did the agreement.
I am totally jazzed for Parley with Coyote Tooth. I hope she can wield it. I'd bet the Tooth is even sharper/more powerful in the etheric realm than it is in the physical. Remember what Coyote himself looks like in the ether. It seems a potent and useful thing to counter a blade which leaves lasting etheric marks, such as Jeanne has.
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Post by goldenknots on Nov 24, 2011 12:28:04 GMT
I had taken the panel in which the binding comes off as meaning that, well, the binding was no longer in effect. That the physical thing-on-her-wrist was also representative of the contract, if you will. When it dissolved, so did the agreement. The binding itself was to cut her hand off, as stated quite clearly by Coyote in page 826. Thus, no band, no snip. It seems clear that she was checking to see if it was still there (849), and that it was a given, in her mind at least, that its physical presence was the critical factor.
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Post by fuzzysocks on Nov 24, 2011 12:37:53 GMT
If he had said, "Coyote had put a binding on you?" vs. "Coyote put a binding on you?" I probably would have been less confused. At the same time though, I also realized that not anyone speaks perfect English anymore or in fact generally never and that it flows more naturally without the 'had'. Sorry, English major here... "Put" is already in the past tense, so Tom in fact was writing in "perfect English." For example: Notice, "put" refers to an action that happened in the past. Similarly: Once again: past tense. What may be confusing you is the fact that put is a verb, so it can also refer to events in the near future (ie "Put my book over there"). But it doesn't apply to the present; because it's a verb, it takes a different form when it's happening right now (the word in this case is putting). "Had put" also suggests that the action had happened but was later negated. Should Reynardine have used "had put"? No, because he is asking about a particular moment in the past, when the binding had not yet been dismissed. He was referring to the events of strip 826 and not 849. The binding wasn't gone during strip 826, so therefore "had" is a useless word. Sorry for the off-topic rant; like I said, English major. I'm pretty much hardwired to be a bit of a grammar nazi. ON TOPIC: Does someone want to post the page where Coyote's tooth becomes a sword? I'm pretty sure I only ever saw it drawn/referred to as a knife. Just out of curiosity, although I'm sure Parley might have a bit of trouble making the transition from a long sword requiring two hands to a knife. I learned something new, that is something I should have learned already but forgot about. However! 'Had put' is a pluperfect which can still technically be used. In reference to what Renard said it wouldn't make as much sense unless of course this was an event that happened before another event. Taken from Wiki "In the sentence "A man who for years had thought he had reached the absolute limit of all possible suffering now found that suffering had no limits, and that he could suffer still more, and more intensely" (from Victor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning), "had thought" and "had reached" are examples of the pluperfect. They refer to an event (a man thinking he has reached the limit of his capacity to suffer), which takes place before another event (the man discovering that his capacity to suffer has no limit), that are still relevant at the time of the later event. Because that second, subsequent event is itself a past event and the past tense is used to refer to it ("a man...now found"), the pluperfect is needed to make it clear that the first event (reaching the limit) has taken place even earlier in the past." So that it makes more sense for non-english majors such as myself.
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Post by smjjames on Nov 24, 2011 13:55:50 GMT
Oh come on guys, get off the english grammar nazi boat will you.
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cass
Junior Member
Posts: 58
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Post by cass on Nov 24, 2011 14:43:12 GMT
Everybody seems to be reeeally wanting our heroes to tiptoe around the usage of this Tooth. I'm not so sure there's all that much to worry about. I mean, here's Parley practicing with a real sword, and certainly Annie and all the rest have handled dangerous objects before; I think they know to be careful enough not to just go chucking it around at stuff. 'Dangerous objects,' covers a lot of ground, from pointed rocks through to fusion weapons. It's a piece of a supernatural being of unknown power who messed around with the moon as a trick. If the question's phrased something like, "Do you think it wise to perform a ritual involving 'gifts' from an eldritch abomination?" The intuitions might turn out differently.... I think they should try and find out some more about it before they go using it for anything. Maybe try asking Coyote what it'd do to Jeanne. It's not like Coyote seems to have lied to them before. Or asking 'Wandering Eye' she's not explicitly allied with either of the parties. Or Muut/one of the psychopomps. Lots of potential sources of info. Maybe even Reyardine would have something to say on the matter. At the very least they should try doing something less dramatic with it before they try using it against Jeanne.
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Post by smjjames on Nov 24, 2011 15:33:51 GMT
At least Robot can be repaired and as long as Parley doesn't go for a headshot, his CPU should be safe. Also I think they agreed not to tell anybody about their plans back in Coward Heart? Jeanne might not be so hostile this time since Parley realized why Jeanne called her a coward, but still, there seems to be an element that Jeanne can't control, at least not completely as she seemed to be deflecting her attacks and intentionally letting Parley knock the stone out of her hand. However, that was the first time we've seen her fight, so it's not clear. The fact that she didn't kill annie when she COULD have certainly indicates something, but what.... joseph: Most likely thats what Coyote meant, but we have yet to see the knife (more like a dagger, from the size and shape of the scabbard, if that IS the scabbard we saw and not the actual blade) in action.
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Post by Mylian on Nov 24, 2011 16:56:39 GMT
I think when he says "Cut the earth" He means stone. Just sayin. We're talking about a being that made the Annan Waters ravine with a swipe of his claw, and plucked the moon from the sky for the heck of it. I think he means exactly what he says. ( "Black blood of the earth." "What, you mean oil?" "I mean black blood of the earth!")
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ryos
Full Member
Posts: 175
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Post by ryos on Nov 24, 2011 20:37:29 GMT
I think when he says "Cut the earth" He means stone. Just sayin. We're talking about a being that made the Annan Waters ravine with a swipe of his claw, and plucked the moon from the sky for the heck of it. I think he means exactly what he says. ( "Black blood of the earth." "What, you mean oil?" "I mean black blood of the earth!") The trouble is, what does what he says mean? As has been pointed out, cutting the earth isn't anything special, leading us to speculate as to why Coyote chose that particular example when warning Annie about how dangerous the tooth is. My thought? Coyote can be pretty much any size he wants, so logically, so can his tooth. The tooth could potentially cleave the very earth in two.
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Post by kelantar on Nov 25, 2011 1:19:51 GMT
I wonder if the tooth looks different depending on who's wielding it? It obviously changes shape and can react to the user's need to some extent, so it might be a full sword for Parley whereas it was shorter for Annie.
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Post by atteSmythe on Nov 26, 2011 19:33:28 GMT
The trouble is, what does what he says mean? As has been pointed out, cutting the earth isn't anything special, leading us to speculate as to why Coyote chose that particular example when warning Annie about how dangerous the tooth is. My thought? Coyote can be pretty much any size he wants, so logically, so can his tooth. The tooth could potentially cleave the very earth in two. Sort of what I'd been thinking. Or one of two things, actually - first that there's a difference between cutting into, and cutting in twain. Second, though, that there may be something more 'fundamental' about the earth than what we see. Something about earth-as-entity, alive, maybe with an etheric presence or projection. I think it would fit forest themes for the mother earth, bringer of life thing to be rather literal. 'They ensure the earth continues to turn' and all that. From that, I've gotten the impression that the Tooth could give the earth a scar/wound like Annie's own. Not visible, but real (perhaps more real than if it was just the body that was cut). I would be surprised if the knife does not have an etheric component to its cutting, which makes it all the more terrifying IMO.
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