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Post by elwuffel on May 20, 2011 15:23:11 GMT
So... Annie explains the thing we'd already pretty much figured out (the power source is etheric). You'd think Kat would have thought of that possibility already. I kinda feel like we just saw the "Batman effect" in action. Batman is supposed to be smart and deductive. But other superheros are actually probably pretty smart too. So when you team Batman up with other superheros and they come across some complex thought problem that must be solved, Batman always figures it out because he's supposed to be the guy that's good at that... even though the problem probably wasn't that complicated and anyone else in the team probably could have figured it out. So rather than Batman looking smart, everybody else just looks dumb. Well, either that or Kat though about it but didn't want to believe it. Which is silly in it's own right: a power source is a power source. Pretty sure actual real-life engineers and inventors would use the crap out of a new crazy power source even if scientists didn't understand it yet. Heck, history is full of examples of inventions using phenomenon that science has no understanding of. I'll be interested to see what Kat's actual reaction in the next page is. If it's anything besides "oh, alright" she's going to feel a bit silly to me. Kat doesn't like the idea of etheric processes without having an idea of how they work: www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=517www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=522
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Post by jayne on May 20, 2011 15:23:46 GMT
Hey Tom! Good job on the LED lights on the optivisors! Yes, I want a pair of those too!
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Post by smjjames on May 20, 2011 15:27:25 GMT
As for the golems in the last panel, I did recognize the tall one as the Jewish golem. No idea what mythology the other two are out of.
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Post by mithril on May 20, 2011 16:21:42 GMT
It seems to me that the "Mk1 robots" have features in common with Golems and Homunculi. Homunculi were sort of "medieval test tube babies", to steal a line from the Hellboy comics. according to the folklore, a homunculus was created by mixing human blood (and other fluids) with a chickens egg and herbs, then incubating the result in dung. it would grow into an artificial human, just (according to folklore) lacking a human soul. golems were just big statues made to move, in most forms of their folklore. no real intellegence. homunculi were as smart as humans. the court robots are made of inorganic materials brought to life through non-technological means, like a golem. but like a Homunculus, they possess intellegence, including feelings. they also have an actual "biology" like a homunculus, although the materials differ.
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Post by darlos9d on May 20, 2011 17:26:14 GMT
Actually it sounds like the COURT doesn't like the idea of etheric process without having an idea of how they work. In that second link, Kat sounds like a totally reasonable inventor/engineer. "It just works, so let's make something out of it." Inventors have been utilizing processes that aren't scientifically understood for ages. Did you know we only just recently discovered HOW compact disks work? That didn't stop us from creating and using them earlier, though. The relationship between science and technology is funny like that... in that there is sometimes almost no relationship. This just makes the Court look goofy, but that's okay because obviously the Court is riddled with stodgy old ideas. At the very least I can now rest assured that Kat's reaction in the next page will likely be sane. So thanks for the observations. The two main problems with any story containing a super genius is 1) the author is usually not a super genius, and 2) the audience is usually not composed of super geniuses. In this subject, I'm always reminded of an episode of the Super Friends I once saw. The Riddler shows up and, as usual, gives some riddle that is a clue to where the heroes need to go to deal with whatever badness is happening in that episode. The thing is, the riddle was really REALLY vague. It was something like "it began as a trickle, but then it something-something." I can't remember the whole thing. But honestly the rest of it didn't help any more than the "it began as a trickle" part. I had no clue what the answer could possibly be. Then after a few seconds, Batman and Robin are both like "of course! it's the Grand Canyon!" I was like "wat." And I'm pretty sure most of the audience would have had the same reaction. And it did probably either A) make you feel dumb or B) seem almost implausibly perceptive on the part of Batman (and Robin, in this case). I can't help but think: is that good or bad handling? It seems like as a writer you'd want to avoid insulting your audience and/or implausible situations, but at the same time it does seem to effectively get across the idea that Batman is not only smart, but smarter than you. Which realistically should be the case. Superheros aren't superheros because they can only do what the audience can do. I dunno. It's definitely a tough balancing act.
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Post by jayne on May 20, 2011 17:29:54 GMT
There is an alchemy link to homunculus... Well, this wouldn't be creating artificial life as much as changing organic life into an artificial being. Ewww!! What if that ceramic heart was once a normal heart!!
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Post by smjjames on May 20, 2011 18:29:32 GMT
There is an alchemy link to homunculus... Well, this wouldn't be creating artificial life as much as changing organic life into an artificial being. Ewww!! What if that ceramic heart was once a normal heart!! Well, we're missing alot of tactile detail, like weight, is it hard or pliable, etc, that would tell us whether it was or not. I can easily see Diego or someone else making a cast of the heart and filling in the spaces with wax or something. Thats similar to a method of metal casting, but no idea how it would work with clay.
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Post by phrogge on May 20, 2011 20:03:06 GMT
What immediately sprang to mind when looking at the heart was font symbols and elements, such as some of these, f'rinstance: www.fontscape.com/explore?69A. I love all those swirly curvy lines!
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Post by hifranc on May 20, 2011 20:22:07 GMT
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Post by polkaking2 on May 20, 2011 20:30:36 GMT
Isn't it interesting that the blue, glass-like things on the old robots are the same color as the mysterious bit on Robt's cpu chip?
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Post by Max on May 20, 2011 20:31:16 GMT
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Post by hurston on May 20, 2011 21:14:53 GMT
I'm guessing that Diego liked the etheric power source, but didn't want the robts/golems to be controlled by the etheric, so the golem part was only given instructions to power itself, and leave control to the robot/chip part, which really controlled it.
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Post by hifranc on May 20, 2011 21:28:17 GMT
I just had a thought: The comic hints that Diego and co lived hundreds of years ago, and he designed the robots. However, the silicon chip has only existed for about 50 years or so. Even if the court had the power and technology to invent it long before it was officially invented, why would the court chips look like new chips? Normally when 2 independent people come up with the same idea, they are only similar in parts where form is an integral part of function (and I am not convinced that the specific look of a modern silicon chip is all functional -- i.e. I think you could make big changes in the way it would look at it would still work just a well) {edit}Actually that has already been proven. In the 1980s chips, including CPUs, did look like that. Even going back to the 90s, some CPUs in home computers were squares with connectors underneath (in multiple rows): Intel 486 chip{edit 2}I suspect Annie (and those on this forum) may be on to something with the idea that the early robots were, at least in part, golems.
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Post by jayne on May 21, 2011 0:18:05 GMT
AHA! This shows that the modern CPU was invented by someone who once lived in Gunnerkrigg Court but moved to...um...wherever the person who invented the CPU lived... Yeah... proof positive!
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Post by crater on May 21, 2011 1:52:19 GMT
s-13's chip was an memory semiconductor, those things are 200 years old. Deigo could just have been the first person to combine low level circuitry with magic, he didn't necessarily invent anything "computer" wise.
Not to say his work isn't amazing or anything.
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rob0tt
New Member
guess who's back in town, techno-tinkers
Posts: 34
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Post by rob0tt on May 21, 2011 14:56:19 GMT
Isn't it interesting that the blue, glass-like things on the old robots are the same color as the mysterious bit on Robt's cpu chip? I always thought they were access panels, but now that you say this... both of those things are probably foci for etheric power. Robot's is just much smaller because modern court robots are mostly mechanical. On the old robots, it does look like a lens.
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Post by legion on May 21, 2011 18:59:58 GMT
s-13's chip was an memory semiconductor, those things are 200 years old. Deigo could just have been the first person to combine low level circuitry with magic, he didn't necessarily invent anything "computer" wise. Hm, while semiconductors, by a large definition, are indeed that old, integrated circuits and transistors, which permit the miniaturisation of semiconductors into chips of this kind, are only a mid-20th century innovation.
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Post by paxjax123 on May 21, 2011 23:21:10 GMT
Isn't it interesting that the blue, glass-like things on the old robots are the same color as the mysterious bit on Robt's cpu chip? Whoa, something just hit me. This page. Kat says she doesn't know what this extra part is, because it's powered by Etheric meansmaybe. Epic foreshadowing?
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Post by xelgaex on May 22, 2011 0:32:24 GMT
Do we actually know that the robots Diego invented used silicon chips? This page shows that S13's chip is backwards compatible at least, but maybe what originally plugged into that slot was different from the modern chips that the current generation uses. Just a thought.
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Post by Georgie L on May 22, 2011 2:56:00 GMT
I'm guessing that Diego liked the etheric power source, but didn't want the robts/golems to be controlled by the etheric, so the golem part was only given instructions to power itself, and leave control to the robot/chip part, which really controlled it. that sounds plausible to me. It would also allow them to be reprogrammed quite easily when you think about it. Instead of having to pull all the bits out and re-program Diego could just get the core tell it new instructions and ta-daa!
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Post by smjjames on May 22, 2011 20:55:52 GMT
Only thing though, that would put into question when Diego lived. We know it wasnt founded in the 20th century. The court being founded in the 19th century seems plausible.
Hrm, did youngs grave have a date? *runs to check* Edit: Nope, and its in text thats apparently only legible to the comic characters. And it was a monument, not a grave.
Anyways, the clothing, etc of the court in the flashbacks looks like it could be as far back as the 1600s, but there hasn't been anything to really pin it down to a particular date.
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Post by crater on May 22, 2011 22:11:13 GMT
s-13's chip was an memory semiconductor, those things are 200 years old. Deigo could just have been the first person to combine low level circuitry with magic, he didn't necessarily invent anything "computer" wise. Hm, while semiconductors, by a large definition, are indeed that old, integrated circuits and transistors, which permit the miniaturisation of semiconductors into chips of this kind, are only a mid-20th century innovation. This is true, but the semiconductors I'm thinking of are ones that allow salts to detect things like light, and electronic waves. Thus giving the golems "eyes" and a sort of memory. There were "computers" as old as 1800s, such as the Difference Engine, and the Analytical Engine. They were huge because the levers and knobs required human hands to work. But if Deigo was able to get the golems to "magically" control the levers and knobs then the miniaturization of such computers becomes possible.
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Post by warrl on May 23, 2011 20:01:28 GMT
Even if the court had the power and technology to invent it long before it was officially invented, why would the court chips look like new chips? Normally when 2 independent people come up with the same idea, they are only similar in parts where form is an integral part of function (and I am not convinced that the specific look of a modern silicon chip is all functional -- i.e. I think you could make big changes in the way it would look at it would still work just a well) Part of the functional spec of a computer chip is that it needs to be small (but large enough that a human can work with it) and have lots of connectors to attach to a circuit board by some means. Another part is to be reasonably easy to mass produce. -------------------------- Unrelated: In Pratchett's Discworld books, as I believe in the original myth, a golem lives according to the dictates of a document put inside its head. In one of the books, I think Feet of clay but wouldn't swear to it, one of the City Watch takes ownership of a golem with a bill of sale made out to "bearer", and puts the bill of sale inside the golem's head. Consequences are interesting...
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Post by Stately Buff-Cookie on May 27, 2011 0:35:46 GMT
As for Kat's disbelief..
I read it more as, "Oh, so it is etheric like we thought it might be anyway?" but that's kind of cumbersome to say. Two friends talking together can shortcut their conversation based on established understanding. It wouldn't make sense to talk in a weird way just because you have an audience you aren't supposed to know about anyway.
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Post by todd on May 27, 2011 10:44:12 GMT
It wouldn't make sense to talk in a weird way just because you have an audience you aren't supposed to know about anyway. Though I recall Tom doing just that with Anja and Surma back in "Ties" when the audience got confused over Anja's nickname being too close to "Annie".
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