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Post by goldenknots on Dec 13, 2010 12:57:50 GMT
I think that Annie realizes that Ysengrin has just given her a sage piece of advice, and some gruff sympathy, and she's taking it well. She was losing her grip, and he just gave her a little mental shake and woke her up. In the last panel she's calmed down and started thinking.
Loren
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Post by jtpetro on Dec 13, 2010 13:57:27 GMT
If Ysengrin is insulting Annie, then he insults himself as well. I think that's ultimately why Annie couldn't be angry at him for those words.
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Post by thereisnosaurus on Dec 13, 2010 14:03:13 GMT
From being the sort of person who would totally get on like a house on fire with ol' grimm, apart from my occasional habit to make witty commentary upon serious issues, I'd say it's pretty certain his brief commentary is directed as much at himself as at annie. More a sort of underhanded
'we all have bad days lass' or 'you've seen me in a moment of self loathing, now we're even'
than actual grumpyness. I love ysengrimm more and more as a character, he's full of those typical siddellian depths. Also from the expressions I'd hazard annie gets the subtext, though as always Tom has left it all up to personal interpretation like the slick chap he is.
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Post by q3 on Dec 13, 2010 14:27:14 GMT
Ysengrin isn't taking her to Coyote, he's just walking a wide loop around the forest. By Wednesday or Friday he'll announce "We've arrived," only to dump her back at the bridge. "Do you want me to kill Eglamore, or can you take him by yourself?"
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aegis
New Member
Above and beyond
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Post by aegis on Dec 13, 2010 15:31:25 GMT
Ysengrin probably despises himself due to his weakness, and wants his old power back to better aid Coyote. Either Annie picks up on this and feels a little sympathetic, or she suddenly realizes that if she treats him like she did her defenseless Renard then Ysengrin could just snap her in two.
I hope Coyote doesn't show up, so we can get more insight into the overlooked third canine. Who knows, maybe at the chapter end he returns Annie to Eglamore without his customary smack talk.
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Post by atteSmythe on Dec 13, 2010 15:38:49 GMT
I'm not reading the sympathy thing at all. Ysengrin may be weak, but he doesn't surrender to it. He never acts weak, would not accept Annie's help. Had she not brought it up, I think he would've given her the courtesy of silence on the matter, but I really think he just told her to man up and grow a pair. Er, as it were.
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Post by davidm on Dec 13, 2010 16:01:20 GMT
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Post by jayne on Dec 13, 2010 16:28:26 GMT
Yes! That's why he was furious when she saw him 'as he sees himself' - a frail weakling.
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tyto
New Member
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Post by tyto on Dec 13, 2010 16:56:17 GMT
"i have little patience for weakness" and we both know i don't have any weakness (irony) ..., and you came here and are crying beacause you're weak..., and we both know what i did coz i'm weak.., or to avoid being weak...,
would that amount like a sort of "yeah, i know how you feel, you feel like shit, and i know about feeling like shit, find a way of figuring it out.., i've found mine, i've paid my price for hiding/compensating my weakness.., you my friend, have a crappy crappy problem tod eal with, and i undertand just how crappy it is to face.., or i couldn't face it, or.., " i'm totally rambling now ;D
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troll
Junior Member
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Post by troll on Dec 13, 2010 17:32:23 GMT
No, this is good. A few comics ago (heck, panel five of this comic) she'd have shot back from the hip with how he couldn't even hunt.
And then Ysengrim would have had very messy hands.
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Post by Amethyst on Dec 13, 2010 20:25:40 GMT
Annie obviously learned the dangers of throwing back anger in someone's face. She's learning to take personal insults and let them pass through. Even if there's little chance Ysengrim is purposefully trying to bait her.
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ryos
Full Member
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Post by ryos on Dec 13, 2010 20:43:45 GMT
I took it as a "quiet, kid, y'bother me." As in, "Coyote told me to come get you, but I'm not really interested in your problems."
Then the last 3 panels. "You DARE—" "Oh..." "Oh, right. You need huggles too."
I do like the idea that two of the three Ysengrins are switched from what we might expect. I assumed that the Ysengrin as he sees himself was the magnificent etheric projection, but it actually makes a lot of sense that Coyote would consider that version to be Ysengrin as he REALLY is. If true, it reveals self-esteem issues in Ysengrin, and casting his tough-guy demeanor as overcompensating. I don't know why, but I really like that idea.
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Post by hifranc on Dec 13, 2010 21:03:54 GMT
This one reminds me of Coyote's advice to Annie to always stand her ground. I agree with the others who say that he may be showing sympathy. However, for general advice, yes you need to face your problems but sometimes it helps if you take a step back and think about things before acting.
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Post by satanicpuppy on Dec 13, 2010 22:41:43 GMT
Maybe I need to stop coming here; my first thought was to laugh because people had thought they were going to get along. Poor Annie doesn't seem to have the gumption to respond, though. ...unless she's remembering how weak his real body is, and the implications of what he's saying. This is it exactly in my mind. We already know that Ysengrin is having serious issues mastering coyote's gift, but that he doesn't blame the gift or coyote, but only himself. Why should he be softer on anyone else than he is on himself? I don't think he's being intentionally mean, but he doesn't have a lot of softness in him.
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Post by christopher on Dec 13, 2010 23:12:22 GMT
...unless she's remembering how weak his real body is, and the implications of what he's saying. Pretty much this.
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Post by scalesandfins on Dec 14, 2010 0:15:05 GMT
Aw, Annie. I read those last three panels as "Stop projecting, Ysengrim! You're only saying that to cover for how you feel about yourself, just like Reynardine--oh. Oh." And he might have some transparent self-esteem issues, but he's still a good fluffy shoulder to cry on. (Honestly I teared up at the last strip, when Annie finally got a hug. Bawww.)
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Post by Stately Buff-Cookie on Dec 14, 2010 16:18:28 GMT
"Little patience" is not "no patience". Cubs are weak. This. So much this. He didn't say he has no patience for weakness. He obviously has enough to be kind to her. Yes, that is KIND YSENGRIN mode. His manner is not one merely following orders of Coyote (though he obviously is). We've seen him barely tolerate escorting Annie before, and this is something different. There are so many layers in that one page it's ridiculous. I think Annie and Ysengrin just had a very big moment of mutual understanding. I think Ysengrin just skyrocketed up to my list of characters I love most in this comic because of this one page. Anyway, Annie clearly isn't going to the forest for help. Coyote is the last person you go to for emotional support. I think she just had to get out of the court any way possible. Breathing room as it were. I'm actually interested in how Coyote is going to handle this. He can't just MAD ANTICS his way to making her happy, and Coyote does not like party poopers. He might even end up inadvertently convincing her to go back to the court and get herself together. Which will have served the purpose she needed. She's not in the forest for answers or help. Just needs to clear her head.
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Post by TBeholder on Dec 14, 2010 17:46:46 GMT
He may be just speaking his mind, but I have serious problems with the idea showing emotions is weakness. There's a huge difference between "showing emotions" and "rolling into fetal pose and crying"... Surma (unlike Annie) was "showing emotions" all the time, between hope, exasperation, showy self-admiration ("look how I can..!"), being flattered and belligerence ("shoulda zap him, that'd show him!"), but that was obviously far from weakness. Then again, we didn't see Surma in her worst time yet, but Ysengrin maybe have seen. I think part of the last couple panels may be Annie realizing that "I have little patience for weakness" isn't purely tough-guy posturing directed at her. It looks like after the unpleasant surprise she even appreciated the gruff approach - at least, it's a nice contrast with all this "don't tell Antimony" deal. Just delivers his disapproval and moves along. Maybe that's what allows her to relax in the presence of "Ol' Grin, who doesn't like humans".
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Post by alya1989262 on Dec 14, 2010 18:42:31 GMT
There's a huge difference between "showing emotions" and "rolling into fetal pose and crying"... ... Yeah, I don't know how you would've reacted if you were told when 14 that you have caused your beloved mother's death, but IMO "rolling into fetal position and crying" is a perfectly appropriate response. If she carried on like that for a while, then yes, I would be open to interpreting it as weakness. What we've seen of Annie so far, though? Normal human reaction.
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Post by Stately Buff-Cookie on Dec 14, 2010 19:11:29 GMT
I think the problem is not that she showed emotion.
Look at how Annie displayed the emotion. Look at where she decided to run. The forest was probably the last place she should have gone under the circumstance. Ysengrin managed to cheer her up in his own bizarre manner, but she'll get nothing good from Coyote for this situation(and I seriously doubt Ysengrin is under any delusions about Coyote's nature). Annie will get no comfort in the arms of the forest. Not only that, but she made a giant FWOOSH at a teacher. Sure, she didn't hurt him, but she still used a lot of force for a simple, "Stay away from me!" She ran away. Then she lashed out unnecessarily. This whole thing started because of that too. She couldn't just suck up. She had to turn away from an issue. Then she lashed out at Rey when she didn't need to. Which just made the whole thing epicly worse.
In weakness she lashed out at all those that only wanted to help her.
She was just about to do the same to Ys at his comment.. but maybe she realized what he was getting at in the last moment. The strong don't feel the need to jab their tongue into the hearts of others just to make themselves feel better. The strong don't run away after doing that blows up in their face.
Now, Ys wouldn't know all the details, but I'd bet he knows enough to know that she wouldn't be there if something hadn't just really screwed up. He had to have seen the fire, and he's smarter and wiser than he's given credit for. Hell, Ys might have stopped her from blabbing precisely because he doesn't need to be told. He probably understands enough, and he might not have wanted Annie to render her heart vulnerable to him. Maybe even out of respect for her(that incident where Coyote showed her what he looked like under the TREE really seemed to change their dynamic).
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Post by jayne on Dec 14, 2010 19:34:18 GMT
You're calling an emotional outburst "unnecessary"?
That just seems odd to me.
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Post by paxjax123 on Dec 14, 2010 20:02:40 GMT
Just started thinking about the punishment Annie will get when she gets back.
Wonder what Kat's doing too.
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qiam
New Member
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Post by qiam on Dec 14, 2010 23:02:23 GMT
Ysengrin is sweet, deep down. He was angry at her before for seeing him vulnerable, but in a way he forgave her. He realized Coyote tricked her, but I think that her apologizing even when it wasn't her fault made him like her a little bit.
This is sort of the same situation. He's gruff but I think Antimony has some sort of weird friendship with him... which isn't surprising, considering Antimony's talents. She stumbles onto these odd relationships all the time.
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Post by todd on Dec 14, 2010 23:51:42 GMT
Just started thinking about the punishment Annie will get when she gets back. The punishment will most likely be for getting caught rather than for doing something wrong, in light of the Court's past record. (As in "We don't object to your engaging in cheating on your homework, running off into the woods without permission, and conjuring up fire against one of the teachers - but we do object to your being so clumsy about it as to make it public knowledge. You're supposed to cover these things up carefully, so that people won't know you did them.")
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Post by Mylian on Dec 15, 2010 5:58:24 GMT
I think the problem is not that she showed emotion. Look at how Annie displayed the emotion. Look at where she decided to run. The forest was probably the last place she should have gone under the circumstance... I don't think it was a bad decision. Possibly not the best, but I'd say it's far from the worst. She's proven that she can handle herself among gods and legends. Probably better than she can handle herself around people. But the Wood has a vested interest in aiding her development into a capable medium. I think that was what Ysengrin really meant. That Annie's purpose in the Wood must be to become a capable medium. It's not a playground, and she can't afford to fall apart completely. Class is in session.
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