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Post by johnwwells on Nov 27, 2010 1:53:33 GMT
Annie's phrasing is neat here. It has that stilted histrionic quality that sounds like bad acting in an adult, but is absolutely dead-on for a smart, socially isolated 13-year-old throwing a fit. She's talking like someone out of a radio play, and that's perfect.
Alternatively, she really is being a bad actress for someone else's benefit.
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Post by basser on Nov 27, 2010 2:52:09 GMT
I'm just going to go ahead and say it was all Anthony's fault, cause that man's a pimp. Edit: Also wanted to point out that Antimony's "I know he loved her because he worked so hard to cure her" sentiment is not exactly foolproof. Poor kid.
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Post by Stately Buff-Cookie on Nov 27, 2010 3:01:59 GMT
Halllooooooo people. You can tell I just had my weekly webcomic binge since I showed up for my once a week posting! Let's cut this into parts to make this easier on.. myself.
Annie's behavior: The girl is really much too good at hiding how she feels, but I've been in similar situations. I'm sure we all have. You get the one thing that just.. nukes your brain. It takes a while to get to you. You can hold out for a little bit. My personal record is over a week. When your brain is FINALLY done melting, you just lash out at the first target you have. It doesn't matter who it is or what they have to do with your source of trouble. SOMEONE has to go down. You just have to break something no matter what. It's not a healthy thing, but it's understandable.
I think Annie just is not able to process her mom doing what they claim she did. She's not a supporter of the Court's awful twisted way of doing things. Ruining lives at the expense of others(and hurting EVERYONE in the end when the consequences fully mature). I wouldn't doubt she always assumed her mom wouldn't get twisted up in their schemes. Mister Stuffed Butt just happened to be the first person to burst the delicate bubble of her stoicism.
"I know why she was like that": ASSUMING THIS LINE IS IN REFERENCE TO SURMA'S DEATH. Since anything else would make this a complete wildcard statement we can't predict, it's best just to assume that and talk about what we do know. Which is.. we know Surma's death is linked to her pregnancy and Annie's birth. We know Eglamore once remarked on how Annie's father(if he is indeed her father) did something at the expense of Surma. We know the court just LOVES the bits out of unintended consequences of schemes carried out with absolutely no thought given to undesired outcomes...
But then, as I write all that, I start to wonder if that's all too convenient. Too many answers all at once. My bet is on the wild card. I think Annie will get the key to unscrew her mind. WHY her mother was deceiving Reynard despite not being the type to do that. Annie's new knowledge might have given Reynard a piece he was missing to make sense of something. What that is, as I said, we can't begin to speculate on. No information. It will, however, spawn exactly 153 new questions about how the court works that will never be answered [in our lifetimes].
Or it could just be totally boring and reveal Annie indirectly killed her mom. Tsh. I would be disappoint, son. It really seems like the dullest thing that could happen.
Random Musing: A real curve ball would be that Surma died of completely natural circumstances that Annie already knows about(and thus why she doesn't show interest in asking anyone. why would she act like she didn't know?). Thus leaving us hanging for many more chapters after this because it's one of those, "Why would characters go around talking about gravity existing? Everyone already knows that!" things.
WHATEVER is going to be said, I don't think Annie is in the state to handle it at the moment. This is under my previous assumption that she's torn up over the contradictory image of her mother she now has in her head. Yet there is NO BETTER TIME to tell her than now. It would be decent of the court to just tell Annie everything relevant about her past, but then the court is just buried up to the neck in plots that came back to hurt everyone because of the court's overzealous pursuit of self preservation. They probably can't tell Annie anything without opening the bag on something awful they all took part in. Thus anything Annie HAS been told is on a "need to know" basis. Like with Surma fooling Reynard.
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Post by TBeholder on Nov 27, 2010 3:49:33 GMT
there's much more to it. By this time Surma broke with James and apparently was out of touch with the rest of her friends. And the rest of the Court. Hm, maybe she actually kept to herself, she didn't want to sadden or worry her friends with the disease, and she went to see Anthony simply because he was the only doctor she knew and trusted, and not really her friend at the time? If she didn't want to bother Donlans, fine, but how about Donlans themselves and Anthony? Normally - if it was this simple - they would visit sometimes. Kat would know Annie before Surma's death: after all, back then she wasn't very popular with the Court's kids and would ask to join if they traveled anywhere. Anja wanted them to be friends the moment she heard Annie is going to Court - did Surma and Anthony want her to have no company of her age?.. That's just not how best friends without really big issues would interact, see? Also consider that the Court has its own medical facilities, biological research division and is, well, the Court. As in, "people who can afford to mow grass with laser cows and got a lot of even crazier stuff". Are there reasons to think the New Hope was better? Anthony was right there, too... My theory is: Surma was self-exiled, blaming herself for the possession incident and its consequences, after a squabble at least as "fiery" and nasty as the one we saw now.
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myzelf
Junior Member
Posts: 83
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Post by myzelf on Nov 27, 2010 3:59:07 GMT
I'm going to guess, partly based on those guesses before me, that some quality Surma possessed passed on to Antimony (which is why they could both see psychopomps) and that this transfer weakened Surma or catalysed a lethal condition in her. This fact would cause Antimony no small amount of grief and guilt to know, and thus it would be appropriate for Renard to trot it out now in retribution.
Also, I'm glad to see Antimony's calmed down somewhat. I was afraid to see her sliding into the persona of a leering, cackling madwoman based on the previous strip.
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Post by Mezzaphor on Nov 27, 2010 4:14:36 GMT
Considering that it was Rey's own dickishness towards Annie and Tony that sparked this outburst, I don't know if Rey really deserves anything more than some time to lick his wounds. I see you're on Annie's side . Maybe? I agree that what Annie's doing is sadistic and cruel, but everyone else has covered that so well that it feels superfluous to say so myself.
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Post by fuzzysocks on Nov 27, 2010 7:57:11 GMT
805More exposition. Rey has a comeback? I hope so!!!!! P.S.: And may be that young man+Rey inside could be her daddy? Tom already stated that Reynardine was in no way related and/or is Antimony's father.
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Post by todd on Nov 27, 2010 11:47:53 GMT
Tom already stated that Reynardine was in no way related and/or is Antimony's father. He'll probably have to have the statement take place specifically in the webcomic speech balloons to get people to accept it (and even then, some of the readers will probably argue that it''s a "Your father was killed by Darth Vader"-type lie).
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Post by wombat on Nov 27, 2010 16:15:21 GMT
I hope so!!!!! P.S.: And may be that young man+Rey inside could be her daddy? Tom already stated that Reynardine was in no way related and/or is Antimony's father. Oh, darn. I didn't think that was very likely, but it would've been cool.
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Post by KMar on Nov 27, 2010 16:41:56 GMT
I dunno if somebody has already figured this out, but I'm fairly certain about this: Rey will explain why everybody fell in love with Surma, even such an emotionless guy like Anthony. (And possibly why Annie has inherited this 'ability')
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Post by Eversist on Nov 27, 2010 19:58:02 GMT
I dunno if somebody has already figured this out, but I'm fairly certain about this: Rey will explain why everybody fell in love with Surma, even such an emotionless guy like Anthony. (And possibly why Annie has inherited this 'ability') I'm pretty sure Rey means "I know why she was 'sick,'" in that last panel. I don't think either of them attract people by supernatural means. They're just that kind of person. Besides, Annie is far from loved by all her peers, let alone her mother (shown as a semi-outcast with her friends in one of the flashbacks).
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Post by jayne on Nov 27, 2010 21:01:01 GMT
Does this mean Rey wasn't going to tell Annie about her mother while he thought she loved him? Or is he telling Annie now just to get her back?
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Post by TBeholder on Nov 27, 2010 21:36:15 GMT
He'll probably have to have the statement take place specifically in the webcomic speech balloons to get people to accept it (and even then, some of the readers will probably argue that it''s a "Your father was killed by Darth Vader"-type lie). Hmm, looks like you're right. He'll probably have to throw in a T-shirt design. I dunno if somebody has already figured this out, but I'm fairly certain about this: Rey will explain why everybody fell in love with Surma Or why Surma was prone to exactly the same sort of calculated viciousness when enraged? Does this mean Rey wasn't going to tell Annie about her mother while he thought she loved him? Or is he telling Annie now just to get her back? Or wasn't going to think himself while he thought Surma loved him? Something that just occured to him while he observed Annie's " little outburst" from the wrong end and was kicked out of his dreams about Surma.
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Post by Mylian on Nov 28, 2010 0:05:19 GMT
What if Rey's about to explain that Surma's illness came from something she could only have done out of love for Rey?
Things may not be as black and white as they've been presented to us.
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Post by Eversist on Nov 28, 2010 0:53:07 GMT
What if Rey's about to explain that Surma's illness came from something she could only have done out of love for Rey? Things may not be as black and white as they've been presented to us. But Rey was just unable to say aloud to Annie that Surma loved him.
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Post by Mylian on Nov 28, 2010 1:54:17 GMT
What if Rey's about to explain that Surma's illness came from something she could only have done out of love for Rey? Things may not be as black and white as they've been presented to us. But Rey was just unable to say aloud to Annie that Surma loved him. Maybe he wasn't trying because he was shocked by the audacity of it. Or maybe he doubted just then for a moment. If she'd gotten him to say Surma DIDN'T love him, that would be conclusive, because it couldn't be a lie. But there could be multiple reasons for Rey not to finish that sentence.
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Post by Eversist on Nov 28, 2010 3:23:23 GMT
But then why would he want to turn into a toy afterward? If you knew someone loved you, and saying it would be the absolute proof that it were true, wouldn't you want to rub that in the face of someone who was telling you otherwise?
I think we're about to find out why Surma was sick, but I don't think it has anything to do with Rey. More likely has to do with Annie or her father. Maybe even one of the dangers of acting as a medium between the court and forest.
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Post by Yin on Nov 28, 2010 5:07:09 GMT
Rey's form of truth is what he believes to be true, so whether or not Surma did love him is not proven by his words alone. I doubt he was even thinking of rubbing it in Annie's face, he was so shocked.
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Post by Eversist on Nov 28, 2010 5:40:06 GMT
Rey's form of truth is what he believes to be true, so whether or not Surma did love him is not proven by his words alone. How do you know this? Is it explained somewhere? Otherwise, why would Annie make him say it?
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Post by jayne on Nov 28, 2010 6:39:43 GMT
Rey's form of truth is what he believes to be true, so whether or not Surma did love him is not proven by his words alone. How do you know this? Is it explained somewhere? Otherwise, why would Annie make him say it? He said Zimmy was a demon because he thought it was true. Jones corrected him.
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Post by Eversist on Nov 28, 2010 6:42:55 GMT
He wasn't speaking to Annie directly, was he? I can't remember. I just don't understand why Kat's mother would tell Annie (more realistically, why Tom would reveal) that her mother tricked Rey if it weren't true, and pivotal to the plot. Surma is allowed to have flaws. Edit: He was talking to Jones, not Annie.
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Post by TBeholder on Nov 28, 2010 9:15:06 GMT
Annie's phrasing is neat here. It has that stilted histrionic quality that sounds like bad acting in an adult, but is absolutely dead-on for a smart, socially isolated 13-year-old throwing a fit. She's talking like someone out of a radio play, and that's perfect. Alternatively, she really is being a bad actress for someone else's benefit. Or Annie is already so emotionally exhausted she barely kept pressing this barb to the hilt at all. Note the difference between panel 1 and 2-4. She slips into breakdown stage and still talks only because she prepared it. Now even if Renard is going to say Surma died because of her, Annie probably just cannot react more than with a flinch and something like "I suspected so...". Otherwise, why would Annie make him say it? Whatever the real deal is, she acts on her interpretation. He wasn't speaking to Annie directly, was he? I can't remember. And adressed Zimmy the first time. Though if "demon" is a meaningless slur, this would mean absolutely nothing either way.
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monte
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by monte on Nov 28, 2010 10:23:25 GMT
Otherwise, why would Annie make him say it? To make sure he faces the truth... If he can still say "surma loved me" than that means he hasn't accepted what she said as the truth and still believes in his own truth.
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Post by Eversist on Nov 28, 2010 11:00:05 GMT
Yes, I understand that. And from all face-value indications of the comic, he couldn't say it, and attempted to change back into toy-form to avoid further hurt/discussion.
I was more asking that in response to Yin's post. If all Reynard needs is knowing what he believes to be true to speak "the truth" to Annie, he could be disregarding all that Annie says right now as lies, and go on believing what he wants, and therefore, say what he wants.
But I don't really think that's how this works.
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Post by Mylian on Nov 28, 2010 15:54:34 GMT
You forget we're dealing with a comic that has been known to lay down a face-value interpretation for us only to surprise us later.
We're not arguing that it is definitely the case that Rey is going to say something to prove Surma's love for him. We're just pointing out that the possibility is still there.
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Post by jayne on Nov 28, 2010 16:55:11 GMT
He wasn't speaking to Annie directly, was he? I can't remember. I just don't understand why Kat's mother would tell Annie (more realistically, why Tom would reveal) that her mother tricked Rey if it weren't true, and pivotal to the plot. Surma is allowed to have flaws. Edit: He was talking to Jones, not Annie.Hmmm... so if Rey really wanted to lie to Annie, he could lie to Kat in front of Annie.
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Post by Mezzaphor on Nov 28, 2010 22:28:39 GMT
Rey's form of truth is what he believes to be true, so whether or not Surma did love him is not proven by his words alone. How do you know this? Is it explained somewhere? Otherwise, why would Annie make him say it? Tom said here that Rey can "lie" if he doesn't know the truth himself. As others have said, I interpreted Annie's "Let me hear you say it!" as a more pointed version of "Search your feelings. You know it to be true." Hmmm... so if Rey really wanted to lie to Annie, he could lie to Kat in front of Annie. Oh, man, I hope that's not the case. That kind of loophole abuse annoys me.
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Post by basser on Nov 29, 2010 7:48:34 GMT
Hey now wait a second. As of now it's 10:45PM Sunday in Alaska, that's like 6AM Monday in England, isn't it? Which time zone is Tom using?
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Post by Eversist on Nov 29, 2010 7:53:25 GMT
The comic always come online at 2 AM for me, and I'm Central Time... so about five more minutes or so. So he puts them up at midnight, Pacific?
He said recently on FormSpring that his comic goes up at midnight from his server in America.
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Post by Max on Nov 29, 2010 7:53:41 GMT
Hey now wait a second. As of now it's 10:45PM Sunday in Alaska, that's like 6AM Monday in England, isn't it? Which time zone is Tom using? The comic updates at midnight Pacific Time (where the server is located). It updates at 8 am for Tom.
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