Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2010 1:20:36 GMT
Annie is Annie, Spider-Jack is Spider-Jack; Gamma, Zimmy and "Memory" Jack are likely nobodies ala False-Kat. This is an elaborate play.
So let's say Spider-Jack actually wants Annie (he's already tried to "turn" her once), and is using False-Jack to lure her in. Because he (spider-jack) knows Annie'll chase him (false-jack).
Then again, I could be completely off-base... There's also the question of whether or not Jack can still be salvaged (saved) somehow.
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Post by violet on Jun 15, 2010 1:20:57 GMT
Aside: It looks like Gamma's looking over her shoulder in panel 6. I wonder who or what she sees there?
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Post by asianborat on Jun 15, 2010 1:36:24 GMT
I think Jack may be influencing Gamma in some way. She seems uncharacteristically panicked in this page.
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Post by Max on Jun 15, 2010 1:47:53 GMT
Tom answered a question last weekend regarding the "Annie isn't Annie" theory: Question: Answer:
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Post by bookworm on Jun 15, 2010 1:49:43 GMT
Anyone else think it's a little odd that Memory-Jack just follows Spider-Jack into a scary house full of spiders without saying anything, or considering it for a while, or even being creeped out? (it's definitely Memory Jack going in the door in the last panel...he has black pants, Spider-Jack has tan)
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Post by Snes on Jun 15, 2010 4:41:11 GMT
Ahem "Ill take over the court with a legion of spidaaas" Ive been wanting to say that all day. Oh man, that just made my day! ;D
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Post by warrl on Jun 15, 2010 6:27:48 GMT
I think that's supposed to be Annie chasing Zimmy around the corner; she's still calling Zimmy's name when she comes around it (broken off as she sees Gamma). Okay, one more silly theory. At least there's some supporting evidence for it. (There's also evidence against it.) When Annie ran around the corner after Zimmy, the Gamma she met was actually Zimmy forgetting who she was and thinking she was Gamma - and so the person with her (Annie) must be Zimmy. This explains why she speaks telepathically to Annie (why Annie hears it is another question) and understands English. Why Zimmy-thinking-she's-Gamma would cast Annie as Zimmy and then, a bit later, also cast the real Gamma as Zimmy (with Annie standing right beside her) is... well, a bit of a problem. So maybe this theory's wrong too. Make that "probably this theory's wrong too."
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Post by Aris Katsaris on Jun 15, 2010 10:53:09 GMT
I think too many people are talking joke-theories they themselves don't believe in, which distracts from the really REALLY possible theories of other people.
On my part I really really liked variance's theory, about the division between "memory" and "ether". That seems to fit really really well. NOT his last paragraphs about GC's "underlying message", mind you, just the ones before that.
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Post by hal9000 on Jun 15, 2010 11:24:58 GMT
I think too many people are talking joke-theories they themselves don't believe in, which distracts from the really REALLY possible theories of other people. On my part I really really liked variance's theory, about the division between "memory" and "ether". That seems to fit really really well. NOT his last paragraphs about GC's "underlying message", mind you, just the ones before that. That's probably because they think most of the theories being posted are outlandish, unlikely, and/or irrelevant. At this point, there doesn't appear to be any way to come up with a reasonable hypothesis for what will happen next, because the comic has left the real world and entered the twilight zone.
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Post by Aris Katsaris on Jun 15, 2010 13:29:38 GMT
I think you're exaggerating. Here's some serious predictions about the comic that I'm making. - The Jacks we see in the windows will be revealed to be all memory-Jacks gathered one by one by Spider-Jack, same as this one did. The more memory-Jacks he collects, the less like his normal self real-life-Jack becomes and the more he becomes like an avatar for the spider creatures. - It will be shown Gamma is also a memory. But a memory of Gamma, not someone else disguised as herself. - The "Zimmy" we're seeing is somehow related to an aspect of *Annie* (a memory? a copy? a soul fragment? whatever) that got left behind from her first time in Zimmingham. - This isn't a "sim", if by sim we mean purposefully created by technological means.
Let's see how many of these I get right.
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Post by Casey on Jun 15, 2010 14:09:17 GMT
Largely, I agree with Aris. We are not completely without any anchor here. The list of things that I'm pretty fairly sure about runs similar to his list.
1) Annie is really Annie 2) Clean Jack is, as "Gamma" said, an etheric manifestation of a memory. (recall: Zimmingham itself is an etheric manifestation of Zimmy's memory of Birmingham) 3) This is Jack's memory of Zimmingham, not Zimmy's memory of Birmingham. 4) This isn't a sim, or isn't -just- a sim (the possibility of this being a Jack-created, sim-tech produced recreation of Zimmy's channeling ability occurs to me as still being possible, but the source material is still clearly Jack's memory of being in Zimmingham.)
As to what's up with Gamma, Zimmy, and the faceless Jacks, I don't care to speculate beyond reason.
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Post by judgedeadd on Jun 15, 2010 14:29:34 GMT
They may not be truly faceless, just distant.
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Post by Casey on Jun 15, 2010 14:32:54 GMT
"Faceless" is a lot more dramatic though. *grin*
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Post by the bandit on Jun 15, 2010 15:45:49 GMT
I think too many people are talking joke-theories they themselves don't believe in, which distracts from the really REALLY possible theories of other people. I can't tell the difference anymore. Well, except for bluemotion and Per.
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Post by violet on Jun 15, 2010 16:32:13 GMT
No, he didn't. (Though you can infer something from that non-answer: her identity is Relevant).
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Post by alexscott on Jun 15, 2010 16:41:39 GMT
I agree with Casey almost completely. I think Jack may be reliving his memory of getting the spider--or the spider is making him relive it--in order to draw everyone else in and maybe give them their own head spiders. In other words, Spider-Jack is about to use Clean Jack both as the carrot on the stick and as a demonstration. Clean Jack could still have some autonomy--which is how he's able to interact with present-day Annie, Zimmy, and Gamma--but he's still going through the memory of that night, and has no power to change things.*
Perhaps there's even a source spider that wants out of the ether, and needs Zimmy to do it.
Whatever the case, I think the spider has been manipulating Jack in the real world through his thirst for answers about Zimmingham in order to get him close to Zimmy. But now he doesn't need Jack's regular personality (hence the robot-smashing) and has taken full control. What a jerk.
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Fen
Junior Member
Posts: 85
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Post by Fen on Jun 15, 2010 16:51:56 GMT
There's a question on Formspring here where Tom says Annie pulled Gamma away from Jack because "she was jealous". So there's certainly something Zimmy-ish going on inside her head. I dunno... maybe, like, the spider is catching memories of Jack in order to merge them together and become more Jack-like, and so its web has magical people-merging properties and anyone caught in it starts to get merged with everyone else ARRGHALARBLEblort
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Post by Ulysses on Jun 15, 2010 17:20:29 GMT
So is this Jack? Attachments:
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lovecraft1024
Full Member
What does anything mean? Basically
Posts: 118
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Post by lovecraft1024 on Jun 15, 2010 18:27:25 GMT
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Post by jimbobbowilly on Jun 15, 2010 18:51:33 GMT
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Post by zylonbane on Jun 15, 2010 22:56:58 GMT
It's a device-independent bitmap, aka "The wrong way to post an image to the internet".
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Post by centzontotochtin on Jun 16, 2010 0:07:44 GMT
If that's Jack, then it implies that the treatise symbols either foreshadow stuff or rehash stuff. As such, I wonder what that Venus of Willendorf figure is in the bottom left, near the sword. Also I wonder what the sword is for, and the shrub, and the Christmas lights, and the "Visit the Stars" poster, and pretty much everything else in the picture. Of course, that Jack-like figure could just be one of the glass-eyed men, and the rest of the stuff is just there for effect, but still...
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Post by todd on Jun 16, 2010 2:00:43 GMT
I hope so. If it turns out that she isn't, that for the past few pages we've been following around a confused Zimmy instead, my response will probably be "Oh, Tom! How could you?"
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Post by Aris Katsaris on Jun 16, 2010 9:41:28 GMT
I've still not understood your strong objections over such a development. It can't be that it's unforeshadowed: as Gamma has been calling Annie "Zimmy" since the beginning of that development, it'd be anything but.
Anyway in the last few pages we've been following a pair of two kids, one of which is definitely confused. So: 1- Either Gamma is confused about Annie's identity. 2- Or Zimmy is confused about Zimmy's identity. 3- Or a combination of the two (e.g. Annie+Zimmy are now merged into a single entity with the memories of the one and the emotions of the other)
Anyway, ignoring possibility (3) for now, if we take it as a given that Gamma is not lying that Zimmy has been confused about her identity before. So I'll consider (2) much more likely than (1).
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Post by todd on Jun 16, 2010 10:32:01 GMT
The problem I have with it is that it means a halfway story shift from Annie discovering what Jack's up to and having to confront him to a story about Zimmy being duped into thinking that she's Annie and learning more about Gamma's unconditonal love for her.
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Post by Aris Katsaris on Jun 16, 2010 11:04:59 GMT
Hmm, I don't agree that a shift in perspective necessarily means anything much about what the story is "about". And even if it did mean that, am not sure that halfway story shifts are necessarily bad.
A matter of taste I guess. I wonder if you'd be more prone to accept such a shift if the chapter split had occurred around #729 though, when Annie enters through that door.
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Post by Ulysses on Jun 16, 2010 18:37:57 GMT
The problem I have with it is that it means a halfway story shift from Annie discovering what Jack's up to and having to confront him to a story about Zimmy being duped into thinking that she's Annie and learning more about Gamma's unconditonal love for her. She hasn't been duped into anything, it's just a thing that happens to her sometimes. It's a part of who she is. And if Gamma so readily gives up that she loves Zimmy here, I think she has probably said it before, and that they probably already knew they loved each other before this. And besides, if 'Annie' is in fact Zimmy, she's still been looking, sounding and acting like Annie, so we haven't exactly missed out on much.
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Post by the bandit on Jun 16, 2010 18:59:33 GMT
The problem I have with it is that it means a halfway story shift from Annie discovering what Jack's up to and having to confront him to a story about Zimmy being duped into thinking that she's Annie and learning more about Gamma's unconditonal love for her. Not necessarily, just as Annie being caught red-handed at the end of the last chapter ended up not necessarily meaning there'd be no plausible way in which she would not end up being expelled from the school. Don't second-guess the story-teller until the tale is through.
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