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Post by Casey on Dec 2, 2009 17:03:12 GMT
It will not surprise me to learn that everything Reynardine said in S1 turns out to be an inaccurate guess. We already know Kat was wrong guessing in that chapter that Diego made the Tic Tocs.
Or for that matter, take a look inside that stone sarcophagus-shaped altar right in front of the painting. But then we all know that Jones is actually Jeanne's reanimated body, RIGHT?
P.S.: Looking back at that chapter, I have to wonder how Diego could fit through that tunnel into the shrine room... Maybe someone else (S1?) Actually built it on his behalf? Maybe the entire arena and spectacle weren't Diego's tribute to Jeanne, but rather the robots' tribute to Diego? HMMMMM.....
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Post by sostorm on Dec 2, 2009 17:15:43 GMT
Ok. From things said and some pondering i've got the following Theory:
Jeanne looks sad and hart broken because she is. I've long thought (overstatement of the year since begun reading this comic Sunday and finished it all yesterday) that Jeanne and Sir Young had a relationship and this is why Diego created the large robot in the image of Sir Young who must be killed.
Something Sir Young did killed Jeanne. I don't think he did it so maybe she killed herself by throwing herself in the river. This does not add up to me though considering she seems like quite the capable and strong lady, so suicide seems strange. But something along those lines anyway.
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Post by Casey on Dec 2, 2009 17:39:06 GMT
Your thinking is strong, in that you remind us that we have to remember that whatever killed Jeanne, it was unusual enough that it left her soul behind in a completely unique way that the psychopomps couldn't (and still can't) deal with on their own.
...actually though on the other hand, it may not be that unique, in that Surma also was a soul that they could not deal with on their own. And in fact, if Martin from Ch 16 is any indication, the psychopomps routinely run into situations that they can't handle on their own... bureaucracy of the Great Beyond, I guess...
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Post by Casey on Dec 2, 2009 17:42:16 GMT
Whoa that is so weird, I have no recollection of writing the word "thine"...
Edit: Because it would be Thy in that context, not thine...
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Post by Mylian on Dec 2, 2009 19:11:22 GMT
It will not surprise me to learn that everything Reynardine said in S1 turns out to be an inaccurate guess. We already know Kat was wrong guessing in that chapter that Diego made the Tic Tocs. Or for that matter, take a look inside that stone sarcophagus-shaped altar right in front of the painting. But then we all know that Jones is actually Jeanne's reanimated body, RIGHT? P.S.: Looking back at that chapter, I have to wonder how Diego could fit through that tunnel into the shrine room... Maybe someone else (S1?) Actually built it on his behalf? Maybe the entire arena and spectacle weren't Diego's tribute to Jeanne, but rather the robots' tribute to Diego? HMMMMM..... Either that or the tunnel was not an original part of the shrine, and was built by the robots after Diego's death. And then as the robots developed away from the Diego original models the tomb was lost by them. The real question is, who walled it up, someone from the Court or was it the robots? And why?
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Post by sostorm on Dec 2, 2009 19:17:40 GMT
In folklore belief souls are often restless and trapped if they have committed suicide or have been killed in a cruel way. This said it has been hinted that Jeanne is waiting for something at that might be why she hasn't passed over yet.
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Post by Mishmash on Dec 2, 2009 20:51:19 GMT
She is sad because Sir Young is away training (like Surma was sad when James went away training) and she died before he returned and now she is waiting at the ravine for eternity or until he comes home!
It is the only possible explanation.
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Post by Casey on Dec 2, 2009 21:04:14 GMT
I don't know how serious you are Mishmash, but that is an astute observation. In Surma's case she appeared to turn to Anthony. In Jeanne's case, maybe Diego hoped she'd turn to him, and when she didn't, he killed her and blamed it on Sir Young('s absence) and then programmed all his robots to perpetuate that lie. Either that, or the "she died and we did nothing" is an original thought of the robots themselves: Diego killed Jeanne, and we (the robots) did nothing to stop him.
Anyway, interesting food for thought.
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Post by fuzzyone on Dec 2, 2009 21:05:16 GMT
Someone pointed out earlier in this thread that Jeanne's dress looks overly formal for lounging around... To me, it looks like a wedding dress. Pure white, long train... All that's missing is a veil. And that may have something to do with time periods, so... My Wildspec is that this is her wedding day. And the groom is not Diego. But Jeanne does not look overly thrilled with the prospect. May I also point out that we haven't exactly seen any human WOMEN present at the Court's founding. Depending on time period, the rights and freedoms of women may not be much to speak of. Jeanne May HAVE to get married to someone, for 'propriety's' sake. Just my thoughts on it, when I saw the white dress.
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broommaster2000
New Member
A stick, a bunch of twigs, a bit of rope, and presto!
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Post by broommaster2000 on Dec 2, 2009 21:05:47 GMT
I kinda like Diego. Big nose, glasses. I got a big nose and glasses. Although I'm not that fond of bullfighting myself. By the way, why did n´t the bull got eaten after the bullfighting thing?
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Post by Casey on Dec 2, 2009 21:08:11 GMT
...because it's a robot, maybe?
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Post by Casey on Dec 2, 2009 21:10:22 GMT
Someone pointed out earlier in this thread that Jeanne's dress looks overly formal for lounging around... To me, it looks like a wedding dress. Pure white, long train... All that's missing is a veil. And that may have something to do with time periods, so... My Wildspec is that this is her wedding day. And the groom is not Diego. But Jeanne does not look overly thrilled with the prospect. May I also point out that we haven't exactly seen any human WOMEN present at the Court's founding. Depending on time period, the rights and freedoms of women may not be much to speak of. Jeanne May HAVE to get married to someone, for 'propriety's' sake. Just my thoughts on it, when I saw the white dress. If it -is- a wedding dress, then it fits nicely with Mishmash's theory that she's waiting for Sir Young (her betrothed?) to return to her... waiting in her wedding dress for her future husband to return and marry her. But really, personally I think it's just a dress. But any of us could be wrong.
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Post by cripplerking on Dec 2, 2009 21:13:39 GMT
I'm betting Jeanne was engaged to marry Sir Young. She was a simple freewheelin' soldier, but he's a high position holding lord, meaning she'd be expected to act like nobility and be confined by social obligations. She's going to marry him, but she's depressed and longs for escape, hence sitting in the window and forlornly staring at clouds. Diego, meanwhile, is just her friend, and makes her little robot trinkets to cheer her up. He's secretly in love with her, but either she doesn't know or doesn't have the heart to tell him she doesn't feel the same way.
Her death is probably suicide from unhappiness in her marriage, or some nefarious plot of Young's for unknown reasons.
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Post by isabellemoerman on Dec 2, 2009 21:40:01 GMT
The style of clothing Diego wears doesn't point further back than maybe late 19th century at most (as evidenced by his appearance in Chapter 23, see also Sir Young) while Jeanne's formal portrait shows a more archaic style of dress. The current comic is not very conclusive. It could be an old-fashioned gown or a comfortable house-dress or even a longer-styled summer dress.
As for her role at the court, we know that Jones at least, has seen no records of Jeanne at the beginning of the court (again Chapter 23) but she admits that a lot of knowledge has been lost.
My best guess is that Jeanne was a Dragon-Slayer-in-training and her formal dress is official Court attire for a female Slayer, like Eglamore's armor is for a male Slayer. Or she could have been a medium (we've seen that mediums are trained in sword fighting before). Granted, Parley, Smit and Annie didn't wear anything that formal during their first meeting with Coyote and Ysengrim, but then again most of their things were packed for the summer, they are still mediums-in-training and Annie wore something more formal when she visited Coyote in the woods.
My second guess is that she is not at all happy about her role in the court.
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Post by Ulysses on Dec 2, 2009 21:50:59 GMT
I may be way off base here, but Jeanne looks much younger than Diego. Maybe he's making her so many toys because something bad happened to her parents who were his friends, and he feels responsible (and then later something, maybe the same thing, happens to her, and that's where the "we did nothing" comes from). My new favourite speculation. He's just protective of her and wants the best for her. Note when Diego says "May it always keep you company!" In his mind he's not creating toys for Jeanne, he's making companions, if not friends. She's lonely and he's trying to help her deal with the loneliness.
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Post by Casey on Dec 2, 2009 21:56:20 GMT
We have no evidence that Jeanne was a soldier. That was just Rey's speculation, and what does he know about humans anyway? The sword may be Sir Young's, and she holds on to it the way Eglamore holds on to the knife that Surma gave to him.
I'm just saying we should probably keep our minds open and not assume that Rey was right about.. well, anything.
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Post by Dvandaemon on Dec 2, 2009 22:09:59 GMT
I agree with Casey but I also think that Rey's deduction was pretty logical and should be considered especially since we've seen that she has some skill with a sword
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Post by fuzzyone on Dec 2, 2009 22:14:50 GMT
I posited once, appropriately enough in the Wild Spec thread, that Jeanne may have been the first Medium of the Court. A Truly neutral party to negotiate the safe admission of the Humans in Gillitie Wood. One who belonged to neither side. This would give some weight to some other theories about her... One: That the guides can't carry her to the other side. Surma couldn't go on her own, and no guide came for her. Annie had to help her. True, the Guides knew who Surma was, but that was because she worked with them. Jeanne may not have had the appropriate giftings to see the guides, and thus, was unknown to them.
Two: Why she wasn't listed among the Court's founders... Because she wasn't among them when they came. She was already there.
Perhaps we'll see answers to this Friday.
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Post by warrl on Dec 2, 2009 22:30:41 GMT
Fourth observation: What's with the collar? Just seems odd. I dunno, but she wears it in the portrait too. What's she saying? My ability to read spanish has been foiled by not-spanish! Apparently it has also impaired yo ur ability to read French. ;D Edit: I'm surprised to have to use trickery on the word after "impaired".
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Post by isabellemoerman on Dec 2, 2009 22:50:24 GMT
I agree with Casey but I also think that Rey's deduction was pretty logical and should be considered especially since we've seen that she has some skill with a sword Not very conclusive. All she managed to do was wound a very young girl, who had just woken up and wasn't expecting any form of attack. All we can conclude is that the sword had major significance to her life as she was able to take the spirit of that sword with her into the afterlife.
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Post by xanbcoo on Dec 2, 2009 22:51:56 GMT
I may be way off base here, but Jeanne looks much younger than Diego. Maybe he's making her so many toys because something bad happened to her parents who were his friends, and he feels responsible (and then later something, maybe the same thing, happens to her, and that's where the "we did nothing" comes from). My new favourite speculation. He's just protective of her and wants the best for her. Note when Diego says "May it always keep you company!" In his mind he's not creating toys for Jeanne, he's making companions, if not friends. She's lonely and he's trying to help her deal with the loneliness. You could actually extend this speculation to say that perhaps Diego is related to Jeanne in some way. I would have said he might be her father if she didn't address him directly as "Diego", but it's still possible that she's his little sister or something. Edit: Except she speaks French and he apparently speaks Spanish. Never mind!
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Post by King Mir on Dec 3, 2009 1:47:17 GMT
Either that, or the "she died and we did nothing" is an original thought of the robots themselves: Diego killed Jeanne, and we (the robots) did nothing to stop him. This doesn't account for why the robots hate the protectorate of the court though. I agree with Casey but I also think that Rey's deduction was pretty logical and should be considered especially since we've seen that she has some skill with a sword Not very conclusive. All she managed to do was wound a very young girl, who had just woken up and wasn't expecting any form of attack. All we can conclude is that the sword had major significance to her life as she was able to take the spirit of that sword with her into the afterlife. It is not clear that she was trying to attack Annie. If she was unskilled, she would have moved closer and tried to slash at her stomach, or else stab her directly. If she was skilled she would have assumed a fighting stance, which she did not.
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Post by Casey on Dec 3, 2009 2:17:53 GMT
Either that, or the "she died and we did nothing" is an original thought of the robots themselves: Diego killed Jeanne, and we (the robots) did nothing to stop him. This doesn't account for why the robots hate the protectorate of the court though. Perhaps not... or, perhaps, that's the reason why they are in such turmoil and why there are so many robots in "research" right now. Perhaps there is a fundamental schism between what they know to be true, and what their programming is telling them to believe. This is a ghost we're talking about. She's lost the ability to speak, the idea that she's lost her skill with the blade is not a difficult leap of logic.
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Chrome
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The Shiny One
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Post by Chrome on Dec 3, 2009 2:20:49 GMT
That slice on the cheek suggests someone pretty skilled - she knew what she was going at, she knew what she wanted. It's as if she wanted to leave a mark.
I just thought of something - given how Annie figured out that Martin was replaying the moments of his death...what if Jeanne slicing at Annie's cheek with the sword is a similar replaying? She goes where she should not have, and does something with the sword that was miscontrued as an attack. Seems like a possibly worthwhile theory.
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Post by isabellemoerman on Dec 3, 2009 2:43:08 GMT
Feel free to hold it against me (and no doubt Tom will have a big laugh after posting an update that proves my scattershot theories completely wrong) but whenever I see Diego, I hear Jason Robert Brown's Someone To Fall Back On in the background. There's just something about Diego that shouts, to me at least
"Yes, dearest Jeanne. I love you. Have always loved you from afar. And I know, I've always been afraid to admit it. I could never pretend to be your hero. God knows I haven't the build for it, and that's just for starters. But I'm always around in the background. And when the heroes fail, as they inevitably do, I am here with a shoulder to cry on."
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Post by Yin on Dec 3, 2009 3:04:00 GMT
With the constant mentioning of the collar, it brought to my mind the ghost story of the girl with the red ribbon who could only keep her head on by wearing the ribbon around her neck.
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Post by King Mir on Dec 3, 2009 3:16:31 GMT
This doesn't account for why the robots hate the protectorate of the court though. Perhaps not... or, perhaps, that's the reason why they are in such turmoil and why there are so many robots in "research" right now. Perhaps there is a fundamental schism between what they know to be true, and what their programming is telling them to believe. I had missed that connection. I agree that it is likely that the "trouble in the ranks" is related to this memory.
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Post by roboticelf on Dec 3, 2009 3:17:05 GMT
With the constant mentioning of the collar, it brought to my mind the ghost story of the girl with the red ribbon who could only keep her head on by wearing the ribbon around her neck. Just like Jones' pink ribbon. See? Wheels within wheels.
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Post by TBeholder on Dec 3, 2009 3:21:55 GMT
She's French?! Jeanne? I could understand when Diego doesn't immediately connect, but the name with spelling requirements... ...are you thinkin' what I'm thinkin', forum? (pretending to miss both the tease/allusion and conclusion-jumping) That "Jeanne" is rather widespread French name? Dang, are all those figurines from Diego? That seems just a little obsessive. So every time old film ends he brings her new one? Just joking. He simply does what he's good at. Maybe he's making her so many toys because something bad happened to her parents who were his friends, and he feels responsible Given the time and setting my variant wild guess is: he was an apprentice of one of her parents, so in her eyes he's sort of "older brother". She grew up in the Court, but didn't fit very well there, thus she's bored. And then she bored to death, took her sword and visited the Gillitie Wood just to see whether she can kick Ysengrin's ass. And they did nothing. So far we've seen Diego as a hapless and hopeless suitor, but perhaps instead (or as well) he's a friend trying and failing to cheer up someone who's suffered an unimaginable loss. That doesn't fit the part when he's downright obsessed. Later obsession may be only out of guilt for "doing nothing" (whatever it was). But a camera wouldn't fit in this, so - no.
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Post by Casey on Dec 3, 2009 4:12:39 GMT
She grew up in the Court, but didn't fit very well there, thus she's bored. I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw the look on her face as possibly being terribly bored. At the very least, I think it's apparent that she's thinking about something other than where she is at the moment.
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