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Post by Yin on May 13, 2009 7:00:56 GMT
Oh!  Let's hope Tom does get this lot published... And I think someone said this before... the treatises would make awesome posters.
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Post by Max on May 13, 2009 7:02:54 GMT
This is one of the most beautiful pages I have seen in a while. Some things I love a lot:
- Kat is leading Annie for once.
- Annie is wearing a much more summery dress than usual.
- The Coyote marking in Annie's hair.
Some much mystery...
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Post by Refugee on May 13, 2009 7:09:49 GMT
The Coyote marking in Annie's hair. " Marking?" Ew! Ew! Ew! That aside, I agree with the rest of your post -- especially Annie's dress. There aren't enough dresses in the world. === Can anyone identify the plant in the lower right hand corner? |
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Post by Casey on May 13, 2009 7:13:45 GMT
I thought that that was intended as a visual pun: that Coyote is "keeping an eye on" Antimony.
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Post by Yin on May 13, 2009 7:14:23 GMT
Kat also has a cog in her hair...
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Post by Mezzaphor on May 13, 2009 7:14:42 GMT
The eye and the gear from the Ch 20 title page reappear, above Annie's and Kat's heads (respectively) no less.
The Bismuth symbol is over Ysengrin's head for some reason.
Again we see the fire motif associated with Annie.
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Post by Amethyst on May 13, 2009 7:15:08 GMT
It's his eye. He doesn't have an eye on his body. He's watching her. Also, Ysengrin has the Court symbol by him?
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Post by Casey on May 13, 2009 7:16:57 GMT
Again we see the fire motif associated with Annie. My inclination would be that this is a reference to her being called "fire-head girl" by Coyote. In reference to her hair color, of course. |
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Post by Mezzaphor on May 13, 2009 7:20:31 GMT
That's an ouroboros -- the serpent/dragon eating its own tail -- encircling the Latin text.
As before, the Moon is on the side of Kat and the Court, and the Sun is on the side of Annie and the Forest.
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cantabile
New Member
Never thought I'd be back on a forum...
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Post by cantabile on May 13, 2009 7:26:00 GMT
And everyone knows the moon can't be illuminated on its own...
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Post by Mezzaphor on May 13, 2009 7:27:54 GMT
Again we see the fire motif associated with Annie. My inclination would be that this is a reference to her being called "fire-head girl" by Coyote. In reference to her hair color, of course. The motif stretches back further than that. In the First Treatise, there was a bonfire behind Annie. In the Second Treatise, she was holding a torch. Annie's first task as a Medium was when she helped Martin, who died in a fire, and she marched through the flames to comfort him. When Annie received the blinker stone, the very first thing she learned to do with it was to make fire -- and the finer points of this skill, she taught to herself. In the illustration accompanying Muut's monologue from Ch 21, Annie was shown with a crown of fire. |
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Post by chiparoo on May 13, 2009 7:27:54 GMT
The smokestacks on the Court's rooftop have the color and appearance of trees.
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Post by Yin on May 13, 2009 7:30:52 GMT
There's a little venus figure and Jeanne's sword... Kat's holding an abacus... Rey's on the bridge with Annie's symbol of ownership... and a plant that looks rather like a hand. Anyone wanna try those?
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mjh
Full Member
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Post by mjh on May 13, 2009 7:37:19 GMT
There's a little venus figure and Jeanne's sword... Yes, it looks like a clay figurine of a stone-age goddess – we haven’t seen anything like that before in the comic, or have we? And what about that shadowy figure? It doesn’t look like a shadow man, more like the headmaster? |
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Post by Casey on May 13, 2009 7:38:55 GMT
The motif stretches back further than that. In the First Treatise, there was a bonfire behind Annie. In the Second Treatise, she was holding a torch. Annie's first task as a Medium was when she helped Martin, who died in a fire, and she marched through the flames to comfort him. When Annie received the blinker stone, the very first thing she learned to do with it was to make fire -- and the finer points of this skill, she taught to herself. In the illustration accompanying Muut's monologue from Ch 21, Annie was shown with a crown of fire. Ooh, hmm... maybe all of these things are meant to represent the figurative and literal trials by fire that Annie has had to endure in her life... that's an interesting thought. |
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Post by Mezzaphor on May 13, 2009 7:41:13 GMT
Jeanne's sword was a rapier. The sword on this page looks more like a broadsword.
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Post by Casey on May 13, 2009 7:43:01 GMT
I find the tree smokestacks to be very fitting and symbolic. It's like the Court is trying to artificially manufacture that which the Forest already had naturally. You take a place, you cut down all the "trees" (etherium, connection to the etherial, God) for the purpose of creating fake "trees" (technology that imitates etherium, attempting to become God)...
OK so what is the alchemical symbol on Kat's jacket?
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Post by Casey on May 13, 2009 7:45:41 GMT
Could the juxtaposition of the Venus fetish and the broadsword be representative of Surma and Eglamore? (And could this be wildspecced into Eglamore actually being Annie's father? Or more mildly, a father figure in her life?)
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Post by Mezzaphor on May 13, 2009 7:49:32 GMT
Also, Ysengrin has the Court symbol by him? It's the Bismuth symbol which (I think) represents the union of opposites. The Court uses it to symbolize their union of scientific and etheric technology. Perhaps for Ysengrin it represents the union of plant and animal. |
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Post by warrl on May 13, 2009 8:17:18 GMT
I don't see a moon in this picture, other than on the "visit the stars" poster (rather odd - kind of like a "See London" poster with a picture of the Eiffel Tower), which is between Annie and Kat.
I was going to mention the shadow, which doesn't look like Shadow2 or Mort, but someone beat me to it.
And the sword and the female statuette... hmmm... I'm going to guess that these represent Jeanne. Or, considering how brown the statuette is, maybe Jones.
By the way, the dish on the upper right of the building is angled seriously wrong for a satellite dish. Instead it is probably for a tightly aimed signal from some other ground facility. Unless (of course) it just got heavily stylized for the drawing.
And the chimneys look more organic than the tree trunks do.
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mjh
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Post by mjh on May 13, 2009 8:49:45 GMT
I don't see a moon in this picture, other than on the "visit the stars" poster (rather odd - kind of like a "See London" poster with a picture of the Eiffel Tower), which is between Annie and Kat. True, but then the sun over the forest more closely resembles some native-american symbol of the sun than the real sun. They are both mere symbols (and of course the moon isn’t a star, so literally the poster has got it all wrong). Or, considering how brown the statuette is, maybe Jones. I thought it was brown simply because it was made from clay. Or gingerbread. The colour may be insignificant. By the way, the dish on the upper right of the building is angled seriously wrong for a satellite dish. Assuming it is aimed at some satellite on a geostationary orbit over the equator, the elevation would just depend on how far north you are. |
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Post by chiparoo on May 13, 2009 9:09:35 GMT
The decorated ring in that background-
Terra, Aer, Aqua = Earth, Air, Water (of course)
And then the inner ring reads "Bonum Finitum" which google tells me means "Finite Good" (as opposed to Infinite Good)
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Post by edzepp on May 13, 2009 9:45:16 GMT
Is that Annie's fingerprint on the surface of the moon in the 'visit the stars' poster?
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Post by bisected8 on May 13, 2009 10:17:56 GMT
The decorated ring in that background- Terra, Aer, Aqua = Earth, Air, Water (of course) And then the inner ring reads "Bonum Finitum" which google tells me means "Finite Good" (as opposed to Infinite Good) It might just be a dodgy translater, but "Finitum" can actually mean nearby, related to or "neighbouring". So it could also mean "Good Neighbouring" EDIT: I just realised "Bonum" can mean "Better" (or "the best" as well as good. So what it could read is;
Earth, Air, Water
Better TogetherNever mind, it seems that I just didn't know how to use that particular translater properly. It only means that if you attach another word to it. EDIT: All the online Latin/English dictionaries I've coem accross either reject the word Finitum (I'm getting the impression it's down to some subtly in grammar, I don't really speak any Latin) or give it's meaning as mentioned above. The phrase "Bonum Finitum" does tend to be translated as "finite good", in this case finite may simply mean "measureable" rather than limited (see also the phrase "summon bonum finitum" or "The highest finite good"). |
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Post by nikita on May 13, 2009 10:21:42 GMT
This treatise rocks even more than the ones before - well done Tom! The motif stretches back further than that. In the First Treatise, there was a bonfire behind Annie. In the Second Treatise, she was holding a torch. Annie's first task as a Medium was when she helped Martin, who died in a fire, and she marched through the flames to comfort him. When Annie received the blinker stone, the very first thing she learned to do with it was to make fire -- and the finer points of this skill, she taught to herself. In the illustration accompanying Muut's monologue from Ch 21, Annie was shown with a crown of fire. Yet, fire is the one element that is missing in the background. You can see the words terra, aer, aqua, but not ignis. |
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Post by bisected8 on May 13, 2009 10:27:26 GMT
Since fire isn't on the wheel, it's possible that the phrase in the background is incomplete (assuming the circle continues off panel)...
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mjh
Full Member
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Post by mjh on May 13, 2009 10:37:45 GMT
Is that Annie's fingerprint on the surface of the moon in the 'visit the stars' poster? I suppose so; the moon on the poster looks just like this one: www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=503. Annie’s fingerprint covers the area where the Mare Serenitatis, Mare Tranquillitatis, and Mare Crisium used to be. Whatever remained of the visits by Apollo 11 and 17 got squashed, I’m afraid. |
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Post by todd on May 13, 2009 10:57:29 GMT
- Kat is leading Annie for once. I wonder if this could symbolize Kat's growing role in the webcomic. Who knows, she might actually be the protagonist by the end (a bit like the protagonist role passing from Frodo to Sam in the course of "The Lord of the Rings")! I hope that Tom *does* get the second book published; just because Archaia ran into problems the first time around doesn't mean it'll happen again. |
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Post by nikita on May 13, 2009 11:53:25 GMT
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Post by todd on May 13, 2009 12:01:58 GMT
Thanks for telling me that, nikita. So Volume Two is coming out in August? Just in time for my birthday!
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