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Post by fjodor on Feb 13, 2009 8:25:51 GMT
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Post by eightyfour on Feb 13, 2009 8:56:08 GMT
Well, as always there's factions and sub-factions. Anja and co. may work for "the Court", but thay may not always and entirely agree to all of it's official views and policies.
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Post by warrl on Feb 13, 2009 8:56:30 GMT
In a theoretical sense, "the court" has a valid point: if nobody understands why something works, nobody know the limits beyond which it won't work.
A common component of spell-breaking mechanisms is to put the target in an in-between state. He's bound indoors or outdoors: stand in a doorway. He's bound when on foot or ahorse: put one foot in a stirrup. He's bound both day and night: do this just as the sun sets. Particularly in Celtic mythology people have gotten into some really bizarre situations in order to poke holes in spells. (Actually, most of the time it's to prove that the guy is willing to risk everything for the girl he loves, by creating a hole in his invulnerability spell at her request... meanwhile the girl has hired an archer...)
Since nobody really understands how the Reynardine-binding spell works, they don't know its vulnerabilities. Is it as simple as standing in a doorway at sunset? Or does he also have to be simultaneously partly in a bathtub and partly on a horse, with one eye closed and one ear plugged, after drinking exactly two cans of beer and while wearing only a hat? What is it?
They do NOT want to find out by discovering that Reynardine has escaped and seized another body.
On the other hand... Reynardine doesn't know how to break it either.
And the available alternatives are... what?
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Post by ferrusdominus on Feb 13, 2009 9:14:32 GMT
Kat's pragmatism may be her salvation. She strikes me as more of an "engineer" then a "scientist". The difference being when the situation warrants it, the solution is more important then the explanation. Anja and Donald did what they had to in a pinch and that same moderate skepticism is what lets her befriend the weird redhead surrounded by unexplained happenings. Can't wait for Kat to turn out etheric/mechanical hybrid wonders.
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ecomono
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like tuning in a radio
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Post by ecomono on Feb 13, 2009 9:18:04 GMT
So, basically, the computer is an Oracle Machine where f() is defined as "affect the real world directly". Neat. Well, as always there's factions and sub-factions. Anja and co. may work for "the Court", but thay may not always and entirely agree to all of it's official views and policies. If you understand an etheric process on a procedural level instead of an intuitive one, it ceases to be an etheric process and becomes something directly manipulable by man. Since that seems to be the point of the Court in the first place, I can see why they'd be miffed. But personally I'm willing to side with Anja here... sometimes, when a body-snatching mythical spirit is running around causing mayhem, you need to sacrifice purity for pragmatism. Heck, even big Free Software advocates will boot into Windows when their jobs depend on it. |
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Post by fjodor on Feb 13, 2009 9:30:14 GMT
In a theoretical sense, "the court" has a valid point: if nobody understands why something works, nobody know the limits beyond which it won't work. I even think the Court has a valid point in a practical sense. If Coyote could tap into the computer remotely because he has full control over the etherical part, there's a real danger that the security and safety of the Court are at stake. But apparently the use of the computer is condoned. |
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Dominic
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touched by his funk
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Post by Dominic on Feb 13, 2009 10:59:13 GMT
Kat, you did not just say that.
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Post by Rasselas on Feb 13, 2009 11:36:43 GMT
So, that's why she didn't want Reynardine to hear this conversation. I am once again thrilled by a page of this comic.
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Post by Mezzaphor on Feb 13, 2009 12:42:46 GMT
That symbol on the computer has appeared a few times before in the Donlans' house. Previously, I assumed it was a family symbol (so maybe Donald and Anja put it there to personalize it?) but now I wonder if those were actually computer terminals.
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Post by todd on Feb 13, 2009 12:59:08 GMT
As someone suggested on the comment page, this could be an example of British English grammar, where institutions (like the Court) are treated as plural nouns rather than singular nouns. |
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Post by zingbat on Feb 13, 2009 13:50:51 GMT
This is a *little* off topic, but I dreamed that Kat had a sonic screwdriver and was using it to open locked doors and *Annie* was upset because it was too out-of-this world and magical (she wanted to use her lockpicks).
(What does it mean that Dr. Who and Gunnerkrigg Court have invaded my dreams??)
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Post by todd on Feb 13, 2009 14:00:01 GMT
Annie's speech balloons in the last two pages have a slight red tint to them, while before they were plain white.
This comes after her unsuccessful spying effort on Reynardine - could this be an ominous sign that something sinister happened off-stage?
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Post by blackmantha on Feb 13, 2009 14:00:51 GMT
Another problem with not completely understanding something is that you can't build on it; if you can't deconstruct it, you can't build something new.better with the pieces.
But I think "the Court" is in the wrong here. When robust analysis fails often you only option is to play around with it to get a feel for how it works; that can give you hints that eventually lead to understanding.
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ding
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Post by ding on Feb 13, 2009 14:22:26 GMT
How does one power an ethereal computer? With the brain of a unicorn. It floats in a wired vat, crying in silence.  |
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snes
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Post by snes on Feb 13, 2009 14:56:07 GMT
I wonder what Kat is pondering/planning in the last panel. Could she intend to take it upon herself to apply the scientific method to her parents work in an attempt to justify its usefulness?
ALSO: Ah, we finally see the chapter icon.
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Post by penguinfactory on Feb 13, 2009 15:09:16 GMT
I have to say, in terms of stories that deal with magic vs science, GC seems to be taking a more sophisticated approach than you usually see. Generally it's just "Magic and Science hate each other" for unexplained reasons, but it looks as if Tom has given it some thought.
That said, the attitude "The Court" (I wonder who she's talking about specifically?) is taking seems a little odd for a group of people dedicated to science- I imagine real scientists would be frustrated by Anja's computer, but I doubt they'd call it useless when it is patently very good at what it was built to do (contrary to what others were saying, the impression I got is that the computer is dismissed simply because it's processes can't be known).
Then again, maybe this is purposely supposed to indicate that the people of The Court have gone beyond the scientific method and become dogmatic.
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Post by Azeltir on Feb 13, 2009 15:19:49 GMT
todd: I'm pretty sure they've been that color all chapter, but maybe my eyes are showing me what I want to see.
Ben
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Post by King Mir on Feb 13, 2009 16:23:31 GMT
That symbol on the computer has appeared a few times before in the Donlans' house. Previously, I assumed it was a family symbol (so maybe Donald and Anja put it there to personalize it?) but now I wonder if those were actually computer terminals. doesn't make sense. |
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odz
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Post by odz on Feb 13, 2009 16:24:12 GMT
She strikes me as more of an "engineer" then a "scientist". The difference being when the situation warrants it, the solution is more important then the explanation. This is completely true- I was recently reading a journal article in which the engineers who performed the research basically said "yeah, we're not quite sure why this technique works, but it does and here's the data." I could never imagine reading about that in an article about 'pure science research' because if they couldn't explain it, basically, it's as if they discovered nothing. (And this is why engineering is awesome, but this is neither the time nor place for that discussion.) |
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Dominic
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Post by Dominic on Feb 13, 2009 18:06:05 GMT
Annie's speech balloons in the last two pages have a slight red tint to them, while before they were plain white. They were reddish before she blinkered. Also, Kat's balloons are blueish and have been for a while. They were like that in Ch.19, Power Station. Nice try, but no  |
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Post by UbiquitousDragon on Feb 13, 2009 18:53:30 GMT
This is a *little* off topic, but I dreamed that Kat had a sonic screwdriver and was using it to open locked doors and *Annie* was upset because it was too out-of-this world and magical (she wanted to use her lockpicks). (What does it mean that Dr. Who and Gunnerkrigg Court have invaded my dreams??) Best. Crossover. Evah. Related off-topic query: do you read The Phoenix Requiem? Fooled who? |
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Post by nickgoodway on Feb 13, 2009 21:03:15 GMT
There's an Isaac Asimov short story called 'Not Final' (Astounding SF oct 1941, apparently) in which scientists find how to make a forcefield which is stable for a microsecond then collapses catastrophically. They decide that it is therefore useless for any practical purpose, until an engineer suggests they switch on/off on/off etc in less than the critical period. A little pragmatism can go a long way in these matters.
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Post by Refugee on Feb 13, 2009 21:12:01 GMT
Colored speech:
Anja's speech is a perfectly balanced gray -- using the GIMP's eyedropper, the color balance is 248-248-248.
[edit]
Kat's is r228-g233-b255.
Annie's is r247-g235-b235.
[/edit]
So if an etheric tendency is red, and scientific is blue, what's green?
[edit2]
Oh, gods, this could turn into a major academic field:
In [0508], as Kat commands Annie and Rey to "Be friends!", her speech balance is r218-g225-b243, considerably bluer in appearance.
Annie and Rey's colors are very pale, but slightly different, shades of...yellow.
In 500, as Rey says goodbye to Annie after their little chat in the forest, his speech changes color from one balloon to the next, but always has a very pale reddish cast.
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ecomono
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Post by ecomono on Feb 13, 2009 21:19:35 GMT
Colored speech: Anja's speech is a perfectly balanced gray -- using the GIMP's eyedropper, the color balance is 248-248-248. [edit] Kat's is r228-g233-b255. Annie's is r247-g235-b235. [/edit] So if an etheric tendency is red, and scientific is blue, what's green? This discussion merits its own thread, I think. |
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Post by Refugee on Feb 13, 2009 21:31:03 GMT
It would be a lot easier if the Eyedrop tool constantly displayed the color numbers it was picking up, and allowed an easy cut and paste of same. Very tedious to click on a patch, click on the foreground box, and copy the numbers from the "change foreground color" dialog.
===
Green, you say? Green?
Eglamore's speech is green, r228-g238-b227, in [0240].
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Post by Mezzaphor on Feb 13, 2009 21:36:05 GMT
The comics are saved as JPG's so some slight variation in color is inevitable. And Tom has said that sometimes he makes mistakes. |
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Post by Refugee on Feb 13, 2009 21:37:50 GMT
"Sometimes" makes mistakes; JPEG is "partially" to blame.
But there are some consistent trends.
[edit]
Actually, he only acknowledged fault in that one instance.
The coloration is deliberate, but you have to be careful, I guess, about assigning exact interpretations to exact numbers, because of the JPEG business.
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Post by lingus on Feb 13, 2009 21:53:00 GMT
Anyone remember when Kat freaked out that she couldn't figure out how those robots she found worked? Same thing here... although, it seems she is changing her tune slightly? Maybe she's starting to realize that not knowing how something works doesn't mean it's worthless. This could, as many have suggested, be related to her spending time with Annie. Maybe this is some kind of symbolism for how Annie will help the Court realize the same thing?
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Post by todd on Feb 13, 2009 23:29:55 GMT
Thanks for the comments on the color of Annie's speech balloon. For a moment, I'd wondered if maybe Reynardine *had* found a way to possess her through her using the Blinker Stone to spy on him - which would create obvious problems, because according to the Rules, anyone whom Reynardine possesses is dead - and the story would have a hard time continuing if its narrator/protagonist was to die now.
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Post by strainofthought on Feb 14, 2009 4:01:37 GMT
Okay, after choking down my nerd rage and waiting to see where the comic went, today's page has suggested to me a possible explanation for what Anja's computer is. To those who are familiar with it, I will say flat out that Anja's computer may be... er... ' analogous' to the Antikythera mechanism. To those who aren't familiar with it, the basic idea is that when most people think of a computer, they think of an artificial device which makes computations digitally via electronics. With only a moment's thought you will realize that a computer can be much, much different- a brain is a computer, and it looks like molded gelatin. A brain is biological in construction, and makes computations using a neural network, via chemical reactions. So, there is a wide variety of possible artificial computers. Non-electronic computers have been relatively common, actually- mechanical tabulating machines were used for decades to perform censuses. Almost all of these, however, were digital. Analog computers- both electronic and mechanical- have been manufactured and used for practical applications during the twentieth century, but they are considerably weirder than digital computers, as digital computers are what we today are used to thinking about. What I think Anja's computer could be, and still make everything said about it so far true without quibbling, is some sort of crazy hybrid digital-analog computer using a partially etheric computational medium. This is such a bizarre idea that I can barely wrap my own head around it, but to prove that computers can be weirder than you think, here is a link to a difference engine built out of Lego bricks: www.spectrum.ieee.org/apr06/3217 |
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