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Post by Yin on Oct 22, 2008 6:55:19 GMT
END??? Tom, you can't leave us hangin' like that! (not around next update)
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Post by Mezzaphor on Oct 22, 2008 7:04:35 GMT
I wonder who exactly Annie is referring to in the pentultimate panel. Jack? One of the staff? Coyote?
Annie's color seems to be coming back.
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Post by edzepp on Oct 22, 2008 7:08:20 GMT
Aah! Cliffhanger! Which may or may not be resolved next chapter! Waiting! Aaaah!
Oh, and it's totally Coyote.
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Post by Count Casimir on Oct 22, 2008 7:18:47 GMT
Well crap, I was going to say it's Jones, but Coyote just makes too much dang sense.
Oh well, I'm still going to say it's Jones because I want her babies and I'm prejudiced because of that.
Yes, she might be a robot...but then again, she's probably not since Tom actually mentioned that she MIGHT be in comic, and nothing is ever at it seems. Even if she is, it changes nothing.
/offtopic.
Janet looks extremely happy, and Margo does not appear all that upset either. I imagine that for those not in horrific Birminghell, the night was actually a smashing success.
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Post by Vanessa on Oct 22, 2008 7:21:42 GMT
This is the first chapter end I've read in "real time" - does this mean Friday's update will be the title page?
Janet and Margo look happy! I'd have thought Jones was the most likely person to ask, perhaps?
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Post by meghatron on Oct 22, 2008 7:28:37 GMT
Well I guess after the weirdness Zimmy and Gamma wouldn't be welcomed along to a ride back to 'civilization', but it would still have been a nice gesture. I guess they just sort of wander around the court during and after hours like stray cats.
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Post by Rasselas on Oct 22, 2008 7:34:10 GMT
Coyote seems to be the best guess, but nobody mentioned Reynardine yet. He should have some answers as well, he definitely knows more than he shares. Also, Coyote is his cousin.
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Post by Refugee on Oct 22, 2008 7:36:44 GMT
Well I guess after the weirdness Zimmy and Gamma wouldn't be welcomed along to a ride back.... They arrived on their own, they'll get back on their own, and I bet they (well, OK, Zimmy, speaking for the pair) wouldn't accept the ride if offered. === I can't explain it, but I feel good looking at and thinking about the girls laughing and talking as they ride back to the school in those carriages. Tom, those coats and cloche hats are perfect. Even Janet is happy. === And Kat notices that Annie is holding on tightly.
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Post by Yin on Oct 22, 2008 7:37:01 GMT
This is the first chapter end I've read in "real time" - does this mean Friday's update will be the title page? Probably. Of course it could be an extra page instead.
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tetsamaru
Junior Member
Aspiring Manga-ka
Posts: 95
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Post by tetsamaru on Oct 22, 2008 7:43:49 GMT
Let it be Coyote!! The invintation!! Dont forget the invintation!
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Post by sunshineduk on Oct 22, 2008 7:55:23 GMT
It seems pretty clear to me that she is referring to Reynardine! The meeting with Coyote will almost certainly be chapter 21, the end of Book 3.
Also of note is that the comic looks to be settling into a pattern, of each Book focusing on certain characters for one chapter. Z&G, the suicide fairies, the Donlan family, Reynardine, Medium-ing, and Robot have basically all had a chapter devoted to them per Book! I think that is pretty swell.
~Duk
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Post by inhumandecency on Oct 22, 2008 8:02:49 GMT
Also of note is that the comic looks to be settling into a pattern, of each Book focusing on certain characters for one chapter. Z&G, the suicide fairies, the Donlan family, Reynardine, Medium-ing, and Robot have basically all had a chapter devoted to them per Book! I think that is pretty swell. Though I don't like to make extrapolations based on just two data points, that is a very neat structure there. Thanks for pointing it out.
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Post by inhumandecency on Oct 22, 2008 8:11:25 GMT
Annie's response to the evening seems strange to me. I'd think that after her experience, she'd want to find out more about Gamma and Zimmy, or her powers, or mediation between the worlds, or creepy hell-towns. Instead she wants to find out more about the Court. I wonder if she's seeing some big picture here that isn't clear to me yet.
Also, it's totally Coyote.
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Post by tyler on Oct 22, 2008 8:53:03 GMT
Annie's got a very quick brain, she's demonstrated this on many occasions. So sorting things out isn't that surprising. But she is wound SO tight! Instantly clamming up like that's not healthy.
I don't know if Coyote would be the best person to ask about Birminghell but I think you're probably right that it's who Annie's going to go to.
Coyote is the trickster god, yes. That means EVERYBODY gets a turn. If anyone would be willing to provide the answers that people have been willfully keeping from her, it's him. I suspect that the meeting will, on average, benefit everyone... once everything falls out.
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Post by mudmaniac on Oct 22, 2008 9:22:41 GMT
I'm curious to see what happens to Jack. Is he ok? will he be ok?
Will he be ok when he is asleep at night? With Nobody around?
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Post by kaziklu on Oct 22, 2008 10:16:29 GMT
I hope its Coyote. He fascinates me.
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Post by eightyfour on Oct 22, 2008 10:19:38 GMT
Will he be ok when he is asleep at night? With Nobody around? Woha, I just totally misinterpreted that... well, after this evening's experience it wouldn't be so surprising, although still terrifying, if the "nobodies" would visit him in his sleep.
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Post by wanderer on Oct 22, 2008 11:00:17 GMT
Maybe she could try, just once, asking one of the ADULTS who work at the Court? You know, one of the people who might legitimately be able to tell her what she wants to know?
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Post by todd on Oct 22, 2008 11:14:21 GMT
That would make sense - but if they wanted the children at the Court to know these things, they'd have probably told them long ago.
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Post by inhumandecency on Oct 22, 2008 13:28:46 GMT
Maybe she could try, just once, asking one of the ADULTS who work at the Court? You know, one of the people who might legitimately be able to tell her what she wants to know? I agree that in real life, you'd expect her to do more of that, but it also seems like she's generally gotten shot down when she's tried (the conflict over Reynardine, the question about what happened to Robot's new arm, asking Muut [not a Court person, but an adult] what's up with Jeanne, pretty much every conversation she's had with Jones...). The adults aren't being nearly as self-centered and negligent as in the Harry Potter series (which I bring up because I consider it the self-destructing nadir of that trope), but it seems like they're pretty slow and formal about it -- she's getting medium classes, not medium immediate-crisis-survival-tips. There may also be some reticence because clearly some of the weirdness has to do with her mom, her dad, the guy who was almost her dad, the way her parents disappeared, and something that happened back when they were in school that makes Eggers want to crawl under a rock when it comes up. Perhaps her mother's prolonged illness had something to do with her medium work, and they don't want to scare her off. Another possibility is that the Court's secrecy is part of its alchemical styling. They may regard some of the things she really wants to know as either secrets or mysteries (a secret being something you don't tell the person until they're ready, whereas a mystery is something that just wouldn't make any sense to them until they're ready). Antimony also has a history of independence, and perhaps of not getting information from adults. She wandered all over the place in Good Hope, and met the guides on her own even before her mother introduced them. Consider that when she was growing up, her biggest question was probably why her mother was in the hospital and what was going to happen to her, and so her early experience taught her that adults will lie to you or try to "protect" you from the answers that matter most. Her father also seems... uncharitable. It's a good question you bring up, wanderer. I'm just trying to think it through. Probably in some part it's just a narrative necessity, so that all the secrets aren't revealed in a tedious exposition dump, but I think there are also ways it makes sense within the story.
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Post by penguinfactory on Oct 22, 2008 13:45:25 GMT
Actually, both suggestions are probably right- Annie has to talk to Jones to arrange the meeting.
Really looking forward to the next chapter.
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Post by Rasselas on Oct 22, 2008 14:05:21 GMT
Remember, guys, Tom has said that the following chapter was the most fun to write so far. So unless I got it all wrong, we're in for one hell of a ride.
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Post by Tenjen on Oct 22, 2008 15:08:38 GMT
The adults cant be trusted.
Coyote can be trusted to speak the truth. and that in itself in why she must weary of him
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Post by fishf00d on Oct 22, 2008 16:00:11 GMT
I had originally thought reynardine, but I forgot about Coyote!
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Post by Per on Oct 22, 2008 16:57:17 GMT
Annie's response to the evening seems strange to me. I'd think that after her experience, she'd want to find out more about Gamma and Zimmy, or her powers, or mediation between the worlds, or creepy hell-towns. Instead she wants to find out more about the Court. I wonder if she's seeing some big picture here that isn't clear to me yet. Also, it's totally Coyote. This is exactly what I would have posted (including the Coyote thing). Not much of import actually happened that didn't seem Zimmy-centred. They did see a factory thing zoom some electricity across the horizon, but honestly, did any of them expect the Court not to have one of those somewhere?
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Post by Vanessa on Oct 22, 2008 18:59:49 GMT
I'm a biology student and I learnt something interesting today - there is an inhibitory neurotransmitter in the brain called Gamma-aminobutyric acid. There are some medicines which act on the receptors for this chemical and so stop it working - one type (picrotoxins? Can't read my own writing) is a convulsant and another (barbiturates) helps the person to sleep. Make of it what you will but it certainly made me pay a lot more attention!
(I know this is just coincidence but I thought it was interesting!)
Did the others just leave Zimmy and Gamma on the roof? Back to wandering the school for them! I'm still curious about the fact Zimmy said they're allowed up there.
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Post by lingus on Oct 22, 2008 19:55:03 GMT
I wanted to point one thing out: It may just be the art style, but notice how Jack's eyes now look very similar to Zimmy's? Not completely, but around the edges they have that same blackness to them. Also the fact that his skin looks very palid and sweaty like Zimmy's always does. I wonder if maybe he's going through some kind of transformation into what Zimmy is? Maybe it's a longshot, but I thought I'd point it out.
Anyways, very interesting ending to a chapter. We're left with more questions than answers. In fact, I don't believe anything was really resolved there, other than what Zimmy's world looks like, but even then it just brings up more to wonder about.
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Post by todd on Oct 22, 2008 22:29:20 GMT
This is exactly what I would have posted (including the Coyote thing). Not much of import actually happened that didn't seem Zimmy-centred. Whenever Zimmy and Gamma show up, it's difficult to *not* have things become Zimmy-centered, simply because of the complexity and depth that those two have (as I mentioned before, that may stem partly from Tom apparently having come up with Zimmy and Gamma before he came up with "Gunnerkrigg Court", and independently of it). Indeed, I think that you could tell Zimmy and Gamma's story without once mentioning Gunnerkrigg or Annie or any of Gunnerkrigg's other inhabitants: all that you need for it is Zimmy, Gamma, Zimmy's nightmares (such as the Nobodies) and the twisted version of Birmingham that's the setting. And I've also said this before, but I don't think that Jack's turning into another Zimmy, not just from the rings under his eyes. Now if his pupils were getting smaller, his skin greyer, and his teeth more like fangs, all at the same time, then we might have a metamorphosis under way.
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Post by Mezzaphor on Oct 22, 2008 23:13:50 GMT
Maybe she could try, just once, asking one of the ADULTS who work at the Court? You know, one of the people who might legitimately be able to tell her what she wants to know? I agree that in real life, you'd expect her to do more of that, but it also seems like she's generally gotten shot down when she's tried (the conflict over Reynardine, the question about what happened to Robot's new arm, asking Muut [not a Court person, but an adult] what's up with Jeanne, pretty much every conversation she's had with Jones...). The adults aren't being nearly as self-centered and negligent as in the Harry Potter series (which I bring up because I consider it the self-destructing nadir of that trope), but it seems like they're pretty slow and formal about it -- she's getting medium classes, not medium immediate-crisis-survival-tips. There may also be some reticence because clearly some of the weirdness has to do with her mom, her dad, the guy who was almost her dad, the way her parents disappeared, and something that happened back when they were in school that makes Eggers want to crawl under a rock when it comes up. Perhaps her mother's prolonged illness had something to do with her medium work, and they don't want to scare her off. Another possibility is that the Court's secrecy is part of its alchemical styling. They may regard some of the things she really wants to know as either secrets or mysteries (a secret being something you don't tell the person until they're ready, whereas a mystery is something that just wouldn't make any sense to them until they're ready). Antimony also has a history of independence, and perhaps of not getting information from adults. She wandered all over the place in Good Hope, and met the guides on her own even before her mother introduced them. Consider that when she was growing up, her biggest question was probably why her mother was in the hospital and what was going to happen to her, and so her early experience taught her that adults will lie to you or try to "protect" you from the answers that matter most. Her father also seems... uncharitable. It's a good question you bring up, wanderer. I'm just trying to think it through. Probably in some part it's just a narrative necessity, so that all the secrets aren't revealed in a tedious exposition dump, but I think there are also ways it makes sense within the story. Yes, this is something that I've been thinking about for a while (and it used to really bug me, but not so much anymore). While the Court certainly hasn't been volunteering information, they haven't been brushing Annie off either -- because she hasn't been asking them. For the specific instances you named: - Reynardine: In the giant animal holding cell, Eglamore answered all of Annie's questions. Then in ch 7, Annie doesn't ask any questions about Reynardine, she simply tells the adults that she has Rey, then she refuses to hand him over, and then she leaves without offering them a chance to explain themselves.
- Robot's arm: Eglamore only told Annie that it wasn't important after Annie claimed to not know Robot. Annie put herself in the "doesn't need to know" category with her lie.
- Jones has been singularly helpful to Annie. She told Annie that her own feelings towards the Court and the Wood were irrelevant; other than that, she answered all of Annie's questions. If that wasn't information enough, well, that was Annie's fault for being satisfied with those answers and not asking the hundreds of follow-up questions that we readers had.
As for why Annie is so independent, in addition to the the reasons you brought up, I suspect her being able to see the Guides from a young age was part of it as well. She grew up surrounded by authority figures who were completely blind to forces that she could see plain as day. I imagine this sort of upbringing would lead any kid to start thinking of adults as clueless. Really, Annie has more reason to trust the Court than they have to trust her. We don't know that any of the Court have lied to Annie, but we know she's lied to and stolen from them. As for Coyote's comment that "You cannot trust the people of this place", I suspect he was being descriptive, not prescriptive. He wasn't saying, "These people are not trustworthy", rather he was saying "You, Abalone, are not capable of trusting these people". Tricksters thrive on such deceptively-worded-but-technically-true statements, and if Miss Carver misunderstood him, well, that's no skin off Coyote's nose.
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Post by Tenjen on Oct 22, 2008 23:33:21 GMT
I notice she's holding onto kat quite firmly there. Kats noticed. Still make sure she's real..and she's safe.
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