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Post by hnau on Dec 5, 2012 11:40:08 GMT
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Post by hnau on Dec 5, 2012 11:48:25 GMT
(Added the image as part of the web site is still broken.)
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Post by foxurus on Dec 5, 2012 11:50:56 GMT
Thank you, hnau! *hugs*
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Post by zimmyzims on Dec 5, 2012 12:00:24 GMT
Thank you! I was already getting frustrated in lack of today's dose of GKC. This is getting only better, can hardly wait what Jones wants to talk about.
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Post by zimmyzims on Dec 5, 2012 12:19:59 GMT
There's a thing here, by the way. I think Antimony is dead wrong. She doesn't understand Ys at all. She is all charmed by that human tree form, as well as by the beautiful etherit projection. As seems to be half the forum. She picked the wrong Ys for the real one when Coyote showed him the three faces of the wolf. The real one is the one drooling and barking angry by the lake. Ysengrin is a decrepit old fool, a sickening old man eaten by his illusions, by his bitter self-esteem that makes him turn inside in denial of reality, the reality that his "powers of gardening", behind which he is hiding, have gotten the better of him.
Look at him! He is hiding, always afraid to show his condition! Self-admittedly nursing an old grudge, dwelling on his bitterness, hiding that ugly interior, that pitoyable subject of grudge under his hardened, artificial shell to which he feeds his own body. He is not a friend of Annie, he is a self-deceptive old man who sweet-talks to a young girl as long as she tickles his pride. As long as Annie was in awe of the forest, giving herself as receptive of all Ysengrin's hatred of court, a disciple open to learn in her lack of experience, looking up to Ysengrin, the cranky old man took advantage of that - but at the moment that she was critical of Ysengrin, forcing him for a moment to get the slightest hint of objective view, to step outside his selfish illusions, he berserked. He does not consider Annie as a friend, he rather abuses her to rise his own confidence.
Be it that his condition might be largely cause of Coyote's quite literal mind games, that nevertheless is his condition.
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alexh
Full Member
Posts: 113
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Post by alexh on Dec 5, 2012 12:44:57 GMT
DreamHost is BoxBot.
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Post by download on Dec 5, 2012 12:47:47 GMT
I think the lesson will be about Annie being too trusting, though the fact Jones is still teaching her tells me Annie was Chosen as the medium
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Post by blahzor on Dec 5, 2012 12:57:22 GMT
she's going to tell her that she won't be the medium and that George is
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Post by blahzor on Dec 5, 2012 12:58:41 GMT
(Added the image as part of the web site is still broken.) remove the image link once the site works normally again. As it uses up bandwidth every time someone looks at the first page of the thread
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Post by hnau on Dec 5, 2012 13:08:08 GMT
(Added the image as part of the web site is still broken.) remove the image link once the site works normally again. As it uses up bandwidth every time someone looks at the first page of the thread Done. Image is no longer embedded, but still accessible via link.
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krael
Junior Member
Posts: 95
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Post by krael on Dec 5, 2012 13:16:52 GMT
There's a thing here, by the way. I think Antimony is dead wrong. She doesn't understand Ys at all. She is all charmed by that human tree form, as well as by the beautiful etherit projection. As seems to be half the forum. She picked the wrong Ys for the real one when Coyote showed him the three faces of the wolf. The real one is the one drooling and barking angry by the lake. Ysengrin is a decrepit old fool, a sickening old man eaten by his illusions, by his bitter self-esteem that makes him turn inside in denial of reality, the reality that his "powers of gardening", behind which he is hiding, have gotten the better of him. Look at him! He is hiding, always afraid to show his condition! Self-admittedly nursing an old grudge, dwelling on his bitterness, hiding that ugly interior, that pitoyable subject of grudge under his hardened, artificial shell to which he feeds his own body. He is not a friend of Annie, he is a self-deceptive old man who sweet-talks to a young girl as long as she tickles his pride. As long as Annie was in awe of the forest, giving herself as receptive of all Ysengrin's hatred of court, a disciple open to learn in her lack of experience, looking up to Ysengrin, the cranky old man took advantage of that - but at the moment that she was critical of Ysengrin, forcing him for a moment to get the slightest hint of objective view, to step outside his selfish illusions, he berserked. He does not consider Annie as a friend, he rather abuses her to rise his own confidence. Be it that his condition might be largely cause of Coyote's quite literal mind games, that nevertheless is his condition. Are you sure? It should be noted that Annie has seen quite a lot more of Ysengrin than we have, during the summerstay and un-drawn forrest walks and all that. Of course Yssi isn't as cuddly as Annie sometimes seems to think, and there probably plenty of communication gaps and misunderstandings between the two, but I think you do Yssi to little justice with this assessment. From the little screentime he had, we could clearly see that there were more sides to ysengrin. Yes, he has the primal, feral, cranky, impatient side that the court assigns to all animals, but at the same time we have clearly seen Ysengrin display 'wisdom' (around Annie discovering her heritage) and a sense of justice (do not appologize for what is not your fault) and a sense of sympathy for Annie (right before his memories were stolen). In that last case, Annie wasn't even there, so it wasn't just sweettalking either. I really don't think Ysengrin has tried to construct a deception. Rather I think he simply is a conflicted being with several motivations that do not always point in the self direction (Like any human, really ) and to boot Coyote ****s with his mind now and then, which can't really make it any better. Yssi has his faults, but I think right now, the ballance of things netto makes him a victim.
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Post by sapientcoffee on Dec 5, 2012 13:17:22 GMT
Have a mirror embed, people who can't get the page to load!
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notacat
Full Member
That's not me, that's my late cat Mimi: I'm not nearly so cute
Posts: 188
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Post by notacat on Dec 5, 2012 14:26:47 GMT
Have a mirror embed, people who can't get the page to load! Thanks, but this can be removed now that the page is loading properly: I don't imagine Tom wants copies of his work hanging around any more than necessary...
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Post by Nnelg on Dec 5, 2012 15:11:42 GMT
There's a thing here, by the way. I think Antimony is dead wrong. She doesn't understand Ys at all. [...] Be it that his condition might be largely cause of Coyote's quite literal mind games, that nevertheless is his condition. Yssi has his faults, but I think right now, the ballance of things netto makes him a victim. I agree with krael. Ysengrin isn't a villain; not even a tragic one. Or at least, not yet... Coyote may see to that. I think it isn't Ysengrin that Annie does not understand, but Coyote. She has yet to realize that Coyote is more than just some harmless prankster. Coyote would probably set the world on fire if he could get away with it and thought it'd be "funny". EDIT: In fact, I'm willing to bet that this is the "Lesson" Jones plans to teach.
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Post by darlos9d on Dec 5, 2012 15:54:14 GMT
Yeah, the lesson I've taken from all this so far isn't "Ys is actually violent and unpredictable" or even "the forest people are violent and unpredictable." It's that Ys is personally disturbed and Coyote is an asshole. This is purely about the two of them.
I hope you're right Nnelg. I hope we don't get some generalized moralizing, but instead some kind of specific info about Coyote and/or Ys.
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Post by 0o0f on Dec 5, 2012 17:10:25 GMT
I think it isn't Ysengrin that Annie does not understand, but Coyote. She has yet to realize that Coyote is more than just some harmless prankster. Which is funny, because at first she seemed vary of him. Oh Annie, in some ways you've gotten worse, I guess.
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Post by TBeholder on Dec 5, 2012 21:20:37 GMT
At first she slapped him.
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Post by skythorn on Dec 5, 2012 21:39:17 GMT
*Speculation* what would a creature that lives forever be willing to do to stay entertained? Perhaps that is Jones' lesson, taken from her own observations. Coyote plays with the uncontrolled by him entities of the universe for distraction of the eniii of existence. *Extrapolation* Presumption by those of the Court of sane behaviour of Coyote (and therefore Ysengrin) is a fallacy ... Its a world of opposites and of personalities being aluuded to as chemical behaviours bonding together
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Trism
Full Member
Blink and you'll miss it.
Posts: 125
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Post by Trism on Dec 5, 2012 22:29:24 GMT
Excellent, I think we're about to find out new medium.
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Post by ctso74 on Dec 5, 2012 23:55:53 GMT
In the last panel, is she about to ask her to the prom? That's not a very good segue, Jones. Not smooth at all.
Coyote and Ysengrin: In a world of subtle greys, evil intent and sanity are usually relative to our own shades. I doubt the GC-verse is so much different. Though Y's apparent mind rape was terribly creepy.
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Post by rafk on Dec 6, 2012 1:48:50 GMT
There's a thing here, by the way. I think Antimony is dead wrong. She doesn't understand Ys at all. She is all charmed by that human tree form, as well as by the beautiful etherit projection. As seems to be half the forum. She picked the wrong Ys for the real one when Coyote showed him the three faces of the wolf. The real one is the one drooling and barking angry by the lake. No. The right answer is they're all the real Ysengrin. She's right that Ysengrin isn't a bad guy underneath it all. She doesn't understand the extent of Coyote's manipulation of him (neither does Jones), nor has she come to grips with the hatred of humans that seems to be part of his real personality, but he does have a good side that even Jones doesn't really recognise (this may be because Jones has had limited exposure to Ysengrin or because Jones lacks empathy). I also don't think Annie is as naive about Coyote as many people here seem to think. She knows he's not harmless, and you note that here she has already reached the conclusion for herself that the Ysengrin incident was set up by Coyote. The fact that she's willing to play along with Coyote is diplomatic. I doubt Annie has forgotten the binding he put on her wrist... Actually, the understanding Annie demonstrates here and the lessons learned are just another reason why it would seem really, really odd for anyone but Annie to be appointed medium (unless someone else being appointed medium was done specifically as a lesson to Annie).
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Post by arf on Dec 6, 2012 11:35:33 GMT
I suspect Parley has been selected. Recall, at the start of Jones' flashbacks, she told the HM that ' she was the only logical choice'? That means Smitty's out.
Eglamore probably knew already, and was trying to find a way to break it gently to Annie as they were going into the wood. Why logical? TPort is a useful skill in situations such as Annie faced.with Ysengrin.
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Post by lordofpotatoes on Dec 6, 2012 13:42:00 GMT
I suspect Parley has been selected. Recall, at the start of Jones' flashbacks, she told the HM that ' she was the only logical choice'? That means Smitty's out. Eglamore probably knew already, and was trying to find a way to break it gently to Annie as they were going into the wood. Why logical? TPort is a useful skill in situations such as Annie faced.with Ysengrin. Everyone is probably thinking it's Annie, and then we come up with the idea that it's Parley(which somehow is cool) but then it turns out it's Annie.
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Post by 0o0f on Dec 6, 2012 14:49:25 GMT
I suspect Parley has been selected. Recall, at the start of Jones' flashbacks, she told the HM that ' she was the only logical choice'? That means Smitty's out. Eglamore probably knew already, and was trying to find a way to break it gently to Annie as they were going into the wood. Why logical? TPort is a useful skill in situations such as Annie faced.with Ysengrin. Everyone is probably thinking it's Annie, and then we come up with the idea that it's Parley(which somehow is cool) but then it turns out it's Annie. I'm thinking this, but maybe then it turns out it's Parley anyway?? Man, all these twists.
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Post by Nnelg on Dec 6, 2012 17:49:43 GMT
Everyone is probably thinking it's Annie, and then we come up with the idea that it's Parley(which somehow is cool) but then it turns out it's Annie. I'm thinking this, but maybe then it turns out it's Parley anyway?? Man, all these twists. Or rather, untwists...
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Post by lordofpotatoes on Dec 6, 2012 19:27:09 GMT
Everyone is probably thinking it's Annie, and then we come up with the idea that it's Parley(which somehow is cool) but then it turns out it's Annie. I'm thinking this, but maybe then it turns out it's Parley anyway?? Man, all these twists. Now I'm beginning to think this, but what if it'll turn out Jones is the new medium? And then it turns out it was all a conspiracy to keep the real medium safe(Paz, she can talk to animals, perfect fit, logical choice) from Gillitie's medium. And Gillitie's medium is really Annie, so we were right from the beginning, except we guessed the wrong side. Then Coyote reveals that when he divided the Court and forest he actually put the court where we think the forest is and vice versa, we've been holding the map upside down all the time. Not confusing enough?
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Post by 0o0f on Dec 6, 2012 20:18:47 GMT
Then Coyote reveals that when he divided the Court and forest he actually put the court where we think the forest is and vice versa, we've been holding the map upside down all the time. Not confusing enough? Sounds about right to me.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2012 22:24:43 GMT
Am I the only one concerned about the book growing brighter? ...yep, only one. Carry on with your regularly-scheduled Jones cliffhangers!
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Post by zimmyzims on Dec 8, 2012 10:55:37 GMT
There's a thing here, by the way. I think Antimony is dead wrong. She doesn't understand Ys at all. She is all charmed by that human tree form, as well as by the beautiful etherit projection. As seems to be half the forum. She picked the wrong Ys for the real one when Coyote showed him the three faces of the wolf. The real one is the one drooling and barking angry by the lake. Ysengrin is a decrepit old fool, a sickening old man eaten by his illusions, by his bitter self-esteem that makes him turn inside in denial of reality, the reality that his "powers of gardening", behind which he is hiding, have gotten the better of him. Look at him! He is hiding, always afraid to show his condition! Self-admittedly nursing an old grudge, dwelling on his bitterness, hiding that ugly interior, that pitoyable subject of grudge under his hardened, artificial shell to which he feeds his own body. He is not a friend of Annie, he is a self-deceptive old man who sweet-talks to a young girl as long as she tickles his pride. As long as Annie was in awe of the forest, giving herself as receptive of all Ysengrin's hatred of court, a disciple open to learn in her lack of experience, looking up to Ysengrin, the cranky old man took advantage of that - but at the moment that she was critical of Ysengrin, forcing him for a moment to get the slightest hint of objective view, to step outside his selfish illusions, he berserked. He does not consider Annie as a friend, he rather abuses her to rise his own confidence. Be it that his condition might be largely cause of Coyote's quite literal mind games, that nevertheless is his condition. Are you sure? It should be noted that Annie has seen quite a lot more of Ysengrin than we have, during the summerstay and un-drawn forrest walks and all that. Of course Yssi isn't as cuddly as Annie sometimes seems to think, and there probably plenty of communication gaps and misunderstandings between the two, but I think you do Yssi to little justice with this assessment. I am, of course, being intentionally provocative, due to you guys being all to charmed by this creepy loser. Nevertheless, I also mean what I said, but I think you, and pretty much everybody mistook my word badly. Very badly. I'd suggest you read my word again and take it literally this time, but I also answer your points. However, on the first note, I doubt you countered much anything that I said. Indeed, most of it was already said by myself. From the little screentime he had, we could clearly see that there were more sides to ysengrin. Yes, he has the primal, feral, cranky, impatient side that the court assigns to all animals Here, however, we disagree strongly. This is not an "side that the court assigns to all animals" thing we are talking about. This is more something very humane I talk about. It is not his primal rage that I find disturbing in him. It is him sweet-talking to little girls and licking their face, telling how they smell like their home, as a jealous lover. Of course, the rage just confirms it: the moment that Annie did take the position of being on the side that Ysengrin hates, the human side, the court side perhaps even, just practically saying that her home is there, after all, Ysengrin berserked. I fully agree with Jones that the wolf dude is mentally ill. And this is what we talk about. At least me and Jones. Me and my beloved Jones. ;D , but at the same time we have clearly seen Ysengrin display 'wisdom' (around Annie discovering her heritage) and a sense of justice (do not appologize for what is not your fault) and a sense of sympathy for Annie (right before his memories were stolen). In that last case, Annie wasn't even there, so it wasn't just sweettalking either. Very important to put "wisdom" in quotas, not simply because his "wisdom" mostly is pretty stupid, but much more importantly because his "wisdom" and "sense of justice" are more like moral posing, playing the role of the righteous, strong person. But what is his sense of justice really? It is a sense of revenge, never forgive, never forget. Pity bitter feelings nursed deep under his shell, hardened by the false sense of strength he gets from being able to nurture that bitterness, to feel anger and hatred. And what is his self-righteous wisdom but hateful propaganda and a false stoicism of, not simply denying your feelings, but holding them always inside yous shell, swelling in them but "not showing them" (oh come on, he could not be more obvious about his feelings) and pretending you thus become strong? I really don't think Ysengrin has tried to construct a deception. Rather I think he simply is a conflicted being with several motivations that do not always point in the self direction (Like any human, really ) and to boot Coyote ****s with his mind now and then, which can't really make it any better. I said he is self-deceptive, not that he tries to construct a deception. His show deceives Annie as well, but does he himself believe it? I think yes. That is what self-deception is bout. Yssi has his faults, but I think right now, the ballance of things netto makes him a victim. I didn't deny him being a victim, in fact I said his condition may be due to Coyote's head games. But, that doesn't change his condition. Dangerously ill people often are victims in some sense. What I said was that he is not a friend of Annie's, that he is a sickened old wreck posing for Annie, because he himself believes he is the magnificent, righteous, tree-bodied general of the forest, a great hero, and lacking experience Annie buys that as well, which Ysengrin again loves. It is maybe all not his fault that he is sick, but he is sick.
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