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Post by GK Sierra on Nov 21, 2012 8:01:20 GMT
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Søren
Junior Member
Pursuing Authenticity
Posts: 78
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Post by Søren on Nov 21, 2012 8:03:52 GMT
Except for one key difference: Jones doesn't take all their money when they die.
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Post by ctso74 on Nov 21, 2012 8:09:24 GMT
So... we won't be calling Child Protection Services, then? (Not they could do anything to stop her anyway.)
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Post by philman on Nov 21, 2012 8:13:39 GMT
I dunno, she looked awfully emotionally attached to Egalmore in earlier pages of this chapter, although maybe that just shows how good at acting she has become over the years!
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Post by Muddy Waffles on Nov 21, 2012 8:20:46 GMT
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Post by glyphomatrix on Nov 21, 2012 8:26:13 GMT
I'd like to think that one of the reasons Surma left him is, because, well, an unstoppable human-shaped mineral has been following him - and decided to pick him as companion - for the rest of his life. It's a really huge relationship baggage I've seen in someone.
And also that opposites attract stuff.
Also, hilarious Blingee!
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Post by seaofalchemy on Nov 21, 2012 8:30:19 GMT
I dunno, she looked awfully emotionally attached to Egalmore in earlier pages of this chapter, although maybe that just shows how good at acting she has become over the years! Yes! We all know that she kinda chooses boys/men as her companions. (James Eglamore, Samuel Langdon, Edward Jones) I wonder if she's ever lived with women as her companions. (Calm down, I don't mean in a gay way... unless... well, never mind. "No capacity for emotional connection.") I wonder this because, well... Her demeanor is not necessarily masculine, but she's definitely feminine and woman-esque. (Speculation of her true being aside, she's still a woman, right? She's a female character, right? Haha.) When she finally encountered humanoids, it probably didn't take her long enough to realize that she doesn't resemble a man/male humanoid; she probably figured that she passes more as a woman/female humanoid. If she learned human life through observation and mimicry, she's got to have learned "how to be a woman" from another woman whom she lived with. Like maybe more from the woman on this page. But meh, you don't have to live closely with women to learn how to act like them. I just wondered if she's ever had any female companions.
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alexh
Full Member
Posts: 113
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Post by alexh on Nov 21, 2012 8:39:50 GMT
I find it interesting that Jones explains herself here in future/present tense. This is something that she does not plan to stop doing.
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Post by seaofalchemy on Nov 21, 2012 8:47:22 GMT
I find it interesting that Jones explains herself here in future/present tense. This is something that she does not plan to stop doing. Very true. I suppose she doesn't have any other choice, unless she chooses to live in hiding.
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Post by Stately Buff-Cookie on Nov 21, 2012 9:01:59 GMT
This whole thing about Jones with no emotions just feels like it opens the Vulcan trap for me.
You claim you no longer have/are over base desires and emotion. You claim to not express them or be altered by them in any fashion. Yet they still do things or partake in affairs driven by a desire. You also cannot go without some kind of drive and stil be able to interact with the world on any level(even if it's just scratching your ass or bothering to get a goofy bowl haircut). Something that moves you from the spot to actually do things. Quite literally in Jones' situation because she isn't even forced by biology to eat or drink. There's a lot of things she's done that don't quite hash out if she were truly the passive, emotionless, and observing stone she said.
I'm not saying she experiences the kind of thing humans do, but she's hardly emotionless. There is some kind of drive or reason to act wrapped up in her somewhere.
To put it simply, I don't buy it. Though I suspect part of the point is this is just, "As told by the one claiming they are passive as the stone." Jones wouldn't be the first with the ability to have an objective perspective on anything in the world other than themselves. It's actually quite common to not be able to do that.
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Post by legion on Nov 21, 2012 9:14:34 GMT
sealofalchemy > Jones had feminine names in the past, so she must have taken those from women companions.
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Post by Lightice on Nov 21, 2012 9:39:01 GMT
There's a lot of things she's done that don't quite hash out if she were truly the passive, emotionless, and observing stone she said. The thing is, Jones doesn't have to have actual emotions to imitate the actions around her. If "to do" and "not to do" are of equal value to her, she may as well default to the emotional values of those around her, which tend to lean towards "to do". As I've theorized earlier, and the comic has supported, I think that Jones simply mirrors the desires of the people she comes in contact with and through them possesses a semblance of emotion at times. Incidentally, I think that Jones may know what the Seed Bismuth is, after all. She did mention that she's only teaching things that have been discovered by the contemporary science, so she wouldn't talk of the Seed even if she knew, if everybody else had forgotten what it was.
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Rymdljus
Full Member
Beautiful songbird
Posts: 207
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Post by Rymdljus on Nov 21, 2012 10:31:43 GMT
The nature of Jones is so specific that she must have a really key role in the story as a whole. I wonder what it is.
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Post by Muddy Waffles on Nov 21, 2012 10:38:44 GMT
The nature of Jones is so specific that she must have a really key role in the story as a whole. I wonder what it is. To be stabbed by Coyote's tooth, obviously. Also, as far as the Seed of Bismuth goes, wouldn't doubt it if Jones actually did know and just wasn't saying anything not because everyone forgot about it, but because nobody thought twice about writing down what that seed was. Or maybe there are records of the Seed of Bismuth, in the same place the records of Jeanne are. ;D
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Rymdljus
Full Member
Beautiful songbird
Posts: 207
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Post by Rymdljus on Nov 21, 2012 10:42:31 GMT
The nature of Jones is so specific that she must have a really key role in the story as a whole. I wonder what it is. To be stabbed by Coyote's tooth, obviously. Obviously. But I don't think that's her whole purpose in the story.
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Post by TBeholder on Nov 21, 2012 10:44:22 GMT
I'd like to think that one of the reasons Surma left him is, because, well, an unstoppable human-shaped mineral has been following him - and decided to pick him as companion - for the rest of his life. It's a really huge relationship baggage I've seen in someone. And also that opposites attract stuff. Surma disliked Jones... opposites didn't attract. But this didn't prevent her from courting James. And it's not like there weren't other possible reasons. Also of interest: Zimmy can't stand the presence of TicTocs or otherwise being watched. She evidently almost loves Jones -the-perfect-observer.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Nov 21, 2012 12:29:53 GMT
On further reflection, Jones is not up to date on the latest surveillance technology. The thing is, Jones doesn't have to have actual emotions to imitate the actions around her. If "to do" and "not to do" are of equal value to her, she may as well default to the emotional values of those around her, which tend to lean towards "to do". As I've theorized earlier, and the comic has supported, I think that Jones simply mirrors the desires of the people she comes in contact with and through them possesses a semblance of emotion at times. In the dark ages did Jones burn witches when witch-hysteria ran rampant?
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Post by tustin2121 on Nov 21, 2012 13:54:23 GMT
There's a lot of things she's done that don't quite hash out if she were truly the passive, emotionless, and observing stone she said. Incidentally, I think that Jones may know what the Seed Bismuth is, after all. She did mention that she's only teaching things that have been discovered by the contemporary science, so she wouldn't talk of the Seed even if she knew, if everybody else had forgotten what it was. I don't think she does know what the Seed Bismuth is. How could she know something she wasn't around to observe, and we established in the prolonged flashback that she wasn't even in the country when the court was founded. She doesn't know EVERYTHING, she just happened to be around for the EARTH'S WHOLE LIFE, so she knows A LOT. It's not like she's omnicient.
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Post by legion on Nov 21, 2012 13:55:56 GMT
In the dark ages did Jones burn witches when witch-hysteria ran rampant? Witch-hysteria running rampant is more of a Renaissance post-reformation thing, really, the middle-age attitude toward witchcraft was more complicated, with sometimes periods where indeed witchs were hunted down, but sometimes periods where the *belief* in witchcraft was seen as heretical (that is, accusing someone of witchcraft was a heresy).
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Post by aaroncampbell on Nov 21, 2012 14:02:31 GMT
sealofalchemy > Jones had feminine names in the past, so she must have taken those from women companions. Hmm, so obvious I didn't give her name a second thought, but you're right. Good catch! That would have been an interesting story to see also. I like the friendship between Anja and Surma, and also between Zimmy and Gamma. It would have been neat to see how Tom would have written a friendship between Jones and another female character. There are so many ways he could go with that backstory to make it cool and interesting. Perhaps some day we'll get bonus content or something? Speaking of which, another thought: maybe this chapter's bonus page will be more pictures from Jones' photo album? Given her likely inability to have an artistic taste of her own, I imagine the subjects themselves might also provide a picture or two to her for her collection. Hmm.........
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2012 14:21:40 GMT
....oh.
Well, that explains that, then.
I suppose it's good that she finds humans more interesting from a passive perspective than one of the many ways she could ruthlessly take over the entire world.
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Post by darlos9d on Nov 21, 2012 14:44:02 GMT
Honestly guys, I think Tom's little "No capacity for emotional connection" tidbit at the end there should clue us in to the fact that she does in fact have capacity for emotional connection.
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Post by djublonskopf on Nov 21, 2012 15:45:13 GMT
You also cannot go without some kind of drive and stil be able to interact with the world on any level(even if it's just scratching your ass or bothering to get a goofy bowl haircut). Something that moves you from the spot to actually do things. Quite literally in Jones' situation because she isn't even forced by biology to eat or drink. There's a lot of things she's done that don't quite hash out if she were truly the passive, emotionless, and observing stone she said. I'm not saying she experiences the kind of thing humans do, but she's hardly emotionless. There is some kind of drive or reason to act wrapped up in her somewhere. That drive need not be emotional. It could be instinctual. I breathe without wanting to breathe . . . my heart beats without me having an emotional connection to my heart. These things just function, without any conscious motivator or emotion attached to them. For Jones, watching and mimicking could be instinct.
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Post by 0o0f on Nov 21, 2012 16:11:23 GMT
Honestly guys, I think Tom's little "No capacity for emotional connection" tidbit at the end there should clue us in to the fact that she does in fact have capacity for emotional connection. That was my first thought, but we'll just have to wait and see before we can know for sure I guess. For Jones, watching and mimicking could be instinct. Ah, but why does she have those instinct? Where do they come from? We have the instincts we do because they're keeping us alive, right? Since she's not alive, Jones' instincts would have to be for some other reasons.
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Post by darlos9d on Nov 21, 2012 16:14:36 GMT
You also cannot go without some kind of drive and stil be able to interact with the world on any level(even if it's just scratching your ass or bothering to get a goofy bowl haircut). Something that moves you from the spot to actually do things. Quite literally in Jones' situation because she isn't even forced by biology to eat or drink. There's a lot of things she's done that don't quite hash out if she were truly the passive, emotionless, and observing stone she said. I'm not saying she experiences the kind of thing humans do, but she's hardly emotionless. There is some kind of drive or reason to act wrapped up in her somewhere. That drive need not be emotional. It could be instinctual. I breathe without wanting to breathe . . . my heart beats without me having an emotional connection to my heart. These things just function, without any conscious motivator or emotion attached to them. For Jones, watching and mimicking could be instinct. Can a creature of pure instinct sit down and have an intelligent discussion on said instincts, though? She has to actually think about this stuff and make real decisions. Clearly she could CHOOSE to not spend time with others. But she does. It seems like such things hold some kind of personal interest to her. And really if we question whether or not that's emotional, then we have to question whether or not our own desires to be around others are emotional. Even if a person's reasoning for being around others is just "well, other people are interesting to observe," it's still a pretty human thing to say. Some kind of satisfaction is derived from it.
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Post by Lightice on Nov 21, 2012 16:40:56 GMT
Can a creature of pure instinct sit down and have an intelligent discussion on said instincts, though? Jones clearly has intelligence, but intelligence does not negate instincts, nor does it necessarily require emotional capacity. Clearly? Do we know that for certain? What do you base this on? But either way, free will does not directly relate to emotional capacity, either. As some people have already tried to explain, complete absence of emotional capacity would result in a creature with no active sense of self-orientation, who is wholly controlled by the emotions and desires of other beings. I.e. emotionless Jones encounters a caveman who wants to hunt buffalo. Jones has no input either way, so she goes along with hunting buffalo. Eglamore needs someone to reassure his sense of self-worth. Jones acts as a mirror to his desire, and does just that. This ofcourse isn't a confirmation in any way, but so far there has been nothing that would actually disprove Jones's allegations of her nature, either.
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Post by darlos9d on Nov 21, 2012 16:49:49 GMT
No, intelligence doesn't negate instincts. But I wasn't claiming that. And beyond that, I pretty much disagree with your assessment. I believe that intelligence, free will, and emotions are all inseparably tied up. I don't see how you can have one without all three. If you're intelligent, then you're able to assess, analyze, and question your environment. At that point, you have free will since you will then make decisions based on that analysis. And at that point, you have emotions because you become invested in your decisions. Jones has no input either way, so she goes along with hunting buffalo. So, being emotionally indifferent means you always do what other people do? Seems to me that the opposite would be the case. Either that or it would be 50/50. You make it sound like she would ALWAYS go with the other people, which doesn't logically follow to me. Plus, going back to her previous "I thought I finally found others like me" comment, I don't think her hanging out with cave men was some completely disinterested endeavor. Clearly she felt a connection of some kind. Or at least, wanted to. That's not an emotionless thought process.
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Post by q3 on Nov 21, 2012 16:54:56 GMT
Then there was the time that Jones chose as her companion The Doctor. They spent most of their time arguing about which of them was actually the companion. She never took his name.
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gary
Full Member
Posts: 121
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Post by gary on Nov 21, 2012 17:17:57 GMT
There are human beings who don't have emotions, though. Car crash victims who's cognitive ability to interpret things in that manner has been damaged so they don't repond cognitavely, bodily or behaviourly to experiences that they should respond to. There's no reason jones can't lack the same responses.
Not having desires is something much harder to grasp than not having emotions.
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Post by nero on Nov 21, 2012 17:43:55 GMT
What makes Eglamore more special than the other students she has picked?
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