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Post by SpitefulFox on Aug 13, 2012 7:41:22 GMT
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Post by wynne on Aug 13, 2012 7:44:03 GMT
Have we heard that 'bloop' before? I feel like we've heard that 'bloop' before.
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maximkat
Full Member
Look at my face, my face is amazing
Posts: 111
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Post by maximkat on Aug 13, 2012 8:03:31 GMT
What does Coyote mean? I don't get it.
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Post by Stately Buff-Cookie on Aug 13, 2012 8:16:02 GMT
What does Coyote mean? I don't get it. Oh you will. You will.Drama aside, I think what we're seeing here is coyote going back to the ether. It's possible he doesn't have an actual physical presence unless he decides to have one. If he's truly pure ether, I wouldn't be shocked if he spent most of his time just chilling out without a body. Most of the time, Coyote isn't actually in the forest! Strictly speaking, of course.
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Post by La Goon on Aug 13, 2012 8:16:50 GMT
Does he mean that Annie would be less fond of hanging out with Ysengrin now that she knows he is created by man's stories? If that's what he thinks why doesn't it bother him that the same thing would count for himself? Perhaps it doesn't really matter to Coyote whether Annie wants to hang out with him or not. He can just order it. I'm not really sure how much I like my own speculation here. It doesn't seem to fit at all with the cheery attitude he showed early on. On the other hand we have seen before that Coyote has a pretty unpleasant side to him
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Post by fillerb on Aug 13, 2012 8:35:02 GMT
Is it me or does it seem that the only or one of the reasons Coyote is telling Annie is because he is jealous that Annie is getting along so well with his most loyal vassal and is trying to rip them apart? We know he likes attention (hell he needs it) so maybe he doesn't want to share. He could of course just order Ysengrin to back the hell away from Annie, but that doesn't really seem to fit his mentality of being a trickster.
Probably just me.
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Post by Belrisa on Aug 13, 2012 8:39:31 GMT
I think he means that Ysengrin is going to be nasty to Annie now that she knows the truth. I'm expecting the next scene to be the one everybody was worried about at the beginning of the chapter. :-(
Of course, I would love it if Coyote were wrong. Maybe he doesn't know Ysengrin as well as he thinks he does.
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Post by Lightice on Aug 13, 2012 8:40:22 GMT
Does he mean that Annie would be less fond of hanging out with Ysengrin now that she knows he is created by man's stories? I suspect that what he's told so far is not the whole deal. He expects Annie be more apprehensive about Ys and the Forest after she's had her talk with Jones, if I'm getting his attitude right, here. And oddly enough, I find the two last panels the creepiest moment in this chapter, out of all the creepy imagery we've seen so far. It reminds me of Mark Twain's The Mysterious Stranger, especially that creepy claymation made out of that short story. What if Coyote only exists in relation to other creatures? What if his existence is a purely subjective affair, caused by the echoes in the Ether when a sapient creature arrives in a suitably loaded location? When he's alone, there's nothing there but trees and stones, but when someone else arrives, he's always been languishing there.
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Post by Stately Buff-Cookie on Aug 13, 2012 10:23:40 GMT
That's a rather sad existence, and would explain why he keeps Ys so close. He needs at least one loyal minion to be around at all times.
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Post by eightyfour on Aug 13, 2012 10:51:29 GMT
Is it me or does it seem that the only or one of the reasons Coyote is telling Annie is because he is jealous that Annie is getting along so well with his most loyal vassal and is trying to rip them apart? We know he likes attention (hell he needs it) so maybe he doesn't want to share. It's not just you, that thought crossed my mind. But in the end I think it just boils down to Coyote being a jerk who enjoys annoying people. He's basically the god of internet trolls: Loves to piss people off because he knows he'll get away with it.
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Post by joebean on Aug 13, 2012 11:31:32 GMT
And oddly enough, I find the two last panels the creepiest moment in this chapter, out of all the creepy imagery we've seen so far. It reminds me of Mark Twain's The Mysterious Stranger, especially that creepy claymation made out of that short story. What if Coyote only exist in relation to other creatures? What if his existence is a purely subjective affair, caused by the echoes in the Ether when a sapient creature arrives in a suitably loaded location? When he's alone, there's nothing there but trees and stones, but when someone else arrives, he's always been languishing there. If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, is coyote actually there?
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Post by aaroncampbell on Aug 13, 2012 12:44:55 GMT
If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, is coyote actually there? It's probably just Ysengrin doing his "nobody here but us trees" disguise, and then leaning a little too far because he forgot he's top-heavy. Coyote is likely around there somewhere, but refuses to be associated with such buffoonery.
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Post by Rex on Aug 13, 2012 14:57:46 GMT
And oddly enough, I find the two last panels the creepiest moment in this chapter, out of all the creepy imagery we've seen so far. It reminds me of Mark Twain's The Mysterious Stranger, especially that creepy claymation made out of that short story. What if Coyote only exist in relation to other creatures? What if his existence is a purely subjective affair, caused by the echoes in the Ether when a sapient creature arrives in a suitably loaded location? When he's alone, there's nothing there but trees and stones, but when someone else arrives, he's always been languishing there. This is pretty much it. As Coyote said, he doesn't actually exist. He's a concept, a creature born entirely of people's beliefs which then alter the ether. So yes, if someone arrived who believed in Coyote's existence they'd see him. In the GC universe subjective observation actually alters an objective reality.
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Post by Mitth'raw'nuruodo on Aug 13, 2012 15:35:13 GMT
Is it me or does it seem that the only or one of the reasons Coyote is telling Annie is because he is jealous that Annie is getting along so well with his most loyal vassal and is trying to rip them apart? We know he likes attention (hell he needs it) so maybe he doesn't want to share. He could of course just order Ysengrin to back the hell away from Annie, but that doesn't really seem to fit his mentality of being a trickster. Probably just me. I do not believe this is entirely plausable. Being a god of the Native Americans, how would Coyote migrate to the British Isles unless he has a literal and real existence? Granted someone who studies the Native Americans could have "willed" him there but this seems to stretch what is reasonably possible. Furthermore, should the ether be as manipulatable as say, The Warp of 40K, we should see negative effects like someone's hatred manifesting as a daemon. (This being a response to the statement of subject observation forcing the object reality to change.) Granted there must be some level of reality changing to fit a worldview, but to such an extreme of something not existing unless observed would predicate my ability to fashion a creature of my own design should I simply will it enough. This seems fallacious. The ether must have some sort of rules to govern it. This all being said, if Coyote has enough belief to keep him around, what of YHWH? Or Allah? What of these? Maychance they do not exist in GKC?
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Post by King Mir on Aug 13, 2012 16:28:53 GMT
Furthermore, should the ether be as manipulatable as say, The Warp of 40K, we should see negative effects like someone's hatred manifesting as a daemon. (This being a response to the statement of subject observation forcing the object reality to change.) Granted there must be some level of reality changing to fit a worldview, but to such an extreme of something not existing unless observed would predicate my ability to fashion a creature of my own design should I simply will it enough. This seems fallacious. You'd need to will it enough and have some control of the either. But we've already seen this in Red Gets a Name.
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Post by Mitth'raw'nuruodo on Aug 13, 2012 18:22:34 GMT
True, but the Gol-Shegog was created in the ether. What I was attempting to say is that it seems unlikely that the ether can be so easily used to create life that simply unobservation would end Coyote's existence until he is observed again or is expected. If the ether was truly so finicky we should see creatures of hats and passion everywhere we look, but we do not. Instead we see under very special circumstances (like Coyote's creation) there is a creation. But could it be that the man who died to create Coyote was etherically powerful? Probable I think. Else we should see the Court already having succeeded at becoming God. They have willed it I think, but yet have not succeeded.
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Post by nero on Aug 13, 2012 19:15:22 GMT
Why would Coyote specifically mention the wood of the forest by saying "to ride on his back and tie up your hair" ? Ysengrin's wooden body and the twig she used to tie her hair, could it be possible that Ysengrin will attack Annie?
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Post by q3 on Aug 13, 2012 19:41:29 GMT
Coyote is totally an internet Nice Guy(tm). "I give her presents and take her on vacations and tell her stories and let her deface the moon, so how come she's always clinging to that big grumpy jerkface? She's just as bad as her mom! Women, I tell ya."
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Post by OrzBrain on Aug 13, 2012 20:22:41 GMT
I would say Coyote is using reverse psychology on Ysengrin, bringing Annie and Ysengrin together and making Ysengrin like Annie and Annie feel sympathy for Ysengrin by acting like a jerk.
And I agree that it looked disturbingly like Coyote ceased to exist once he was outside Annie's area of perception. I presume he was making a joke there to amuse himself.
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Post by Marnath on Aug 13, 2012 20:28:18 GMT
I would say Coyote is using reverse psychology on Ysengrin, bringing Annie and Ysengrin together and making Ysengrin like Annie and Annie feel sympathy for Ysengrin by acting like a jerk. And I agree that it looked disturbingly like Coyote ceased to exist once he was outside Annie's area of perception. I presume he was making a joke there to amuse himself. Well, we've seen him look past the fourth wall at us before. Maybe he's toying with us?
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Rea
Junior Member
Posts: 53
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Post by Rea on Aug 13, 2012 20:29:21 GMT
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Post by steelpanther on Aug 13, 2012 21:15:22 GMT
I do not believe this is entirely plausable. Being a god of the Native Americans, how would Coyote migrate to the British Isles unless he has a literal and real existence? This has some relevance: www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=490I think Coyote, being of the Ether, who does not exist, can simply will his body in and out of existence. This would also explain how he can bend and contort into whatever shape and size he wants. As for the threat to Annie in panel 2 today, I fee like Coyote is being overly-manipulative and making a self fulfilling prophesy here. If Annie thinks Ys will act different, she will act different, making Ys act different.
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Post by descoladavirus on Aug 14, 2012 1:55:54 GMT
I do not believe this is entirely plausable. Being a god of the Native Americans, how would Coyote migrate to the British Isles unless he has a literal and real existence? This has some relevance: www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=490I think Coyote, being of the Ether, who does not exist, can simply will his body in and out of existence. This would also explain how he can bend and contort into whatever shape and size he wants. As for the threat to Annie in panel 2 today, I fee like Coyote is being overly-manipulative and making a self fulfilling prophesy here. If Annie thinks Ys will act different, she will act different, making Ys act different. I think a combination of this and whether or not you expect to find coyote in a given place means you will. If you expect to find him, and he's not against it, you will. Largely I think Ysengrin may resent Annie and humans somewhat like the shadowmen do. I think what coyote is doing is a bit of a test for Annie, can she handle knowing this secret (which I doubt she's been told all of) and still be friends with Ysengrin, Renard, and Coyote? Can she still treat Ysengrin the same way knowing he's willingly subservient to a figment of man's imagination given life by the ether? Can she handle Ysengrin's barely controlled temper now that she knows despite his hatred of humans, he serves a being created by humans? Whats interesting here is that Renard and Ysengrin have real bodies. We've seen them. We know Renard left his body and through some trickery of Coyote its still alive. I'm thinking the "flaw" in Renard's bodysnatching is by design at the moment. One day we might see Renard find that secret out.
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Post by joemilino on Aug 14, 2012 5:39:24 GMT
Why would Coyote specifically mention the wood of the forest by saying "to ride on his back and tie up your hair" ? Ysengrin's wooden body and the twig she used to tie her hair, could it be possible that Ysengrin will attack Annie? Check this out, maybe Ysengrin will appear to Annie without any of his etheric attachments, or hence, the body of Ysengrin. (All from Coyote's meddling, of course. www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=1072 <- This, and the page explain somewhat what I'm getting at. Whatever Ysengrin would be without sentience, it would probably attack her. Wolf? I dunno.
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Post by rafk on Aug 14, 2012 9:33:07 GMT
I'm surprised no-one has yet suggested that Annie is about to run into Coyote-posing-as-Ysengrin.
Or else that she has already been seeing Coyote-posing-as-Ysengrin and it is the real grumpy human-hating Ysengrin that now awaits her.
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Post by steelpanther on Aug 14, 2012 13:15:18 GMT
I'm surprised no-one has yet suggested that Annie is about to run into Coyote-posing-as-Ysengrin. Or else that she has already been seeing Coyote-posing-as-Ysengrin and it is the real grumpy human-hating Ysengrin that now awaits her. Woaw. Mind = Blown. That could certainly through a wrench in the works.
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Post by Per on Aug 14, 2012 14:23:31 GMT
Or else that she has already been seeing Coyote-posing-as-Ysengrin and it is the real grumpy human-hating Ysengrin that now awaits her. Woaw. Mind = Blown. That could certainly through a wrench in the works. It would also eradicate a good deal of character and relationship building in the comic, so I doubt it.
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Post by csj on Aug 14, 2012 15:41:19 GMT
I think the main message is being missed here, otherwise today's page wouldn't be referring to her 'tying up her hair'. Coyote is basically referring to her overly-causal approach to the forest in this here chapter and underestimation of its complexity. She comes in with the idea that she 'knows' a lot about the Forest and its denizens, then leaves having been shown how wrong that presumption was. As cool as all these Ysengrin conspiracy theories are, don't expect them to come true.
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myzelf
Junior Member
Posts: 83
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Post by myzelf on Aug 14, 2012 15:49:23 GMT
Coyote always has to get the last laugh. Even when no one else cares.
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galileo
New Member
there are plenty of spiders!
Posts: 47
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Post by galileo on Aug 14, 2012 19:18:03 GMT
Coyote is like the class clown. Look at me! Look at me! And when you don't look he gets angry and breaks something, or causes mischief so that no one is happy. What a jerk!
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