maximkat
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Look at my face, my face is amazing
Posts: 111
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Post by maximkat on Aug 3, 2012 7:01:14 GMT
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Post by Eversist on Aug 3, 2012 7:05:50 GMT
There's nothing wrong with that if he is. Why does a story have to be completely original to be good?
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maximkat
Full Member
Look at my face, my face is amazing
Posts: 111
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Post by maximkat on Aug 3, 2012 7:06:58 GMT
Nothing wrong. Just not something I'd expect to see in GC.
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maximkat
Full Member
Look at my face, my face is amazing
Posts: 111
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Post by maximkat on Aug 3, 2012 7:12:12 GMT
Actually, now that I'm thinking about it... If humans create gods to explain natural phenomena, what about science? What gods has the Court created?
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Post by adannor on Aug 3, 2012 7:16:03 GMT
Actually, now that I'm thinking about it... If humans create gods to explain natural phenomena, what about science? What gods has the Court created? Remember the earlier answer? What is the Court? It creates just one god - the Man.
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Post by zaferion on Aug 3, 2012 7:24:52 GMT
I love how completely unimpressed Annie is, like she knows exactly what to expect from Coyote.
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Post by arf on Aug 3, 2012 7:41:06 GMT
...and do you know why that is?
That crack running through Coyote's narrative... I wonder if that implies that Coyote was used as an *excuse* for the creation of Annan Waters?
Ah well! On Monday, all mysteries shall be revealed... as mysteries.
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Post by Raph on Aug 3, 2012 8:28:26 GMT
A "what is that for?" question would have been nice, "what for" is my favourite interrogation. I officially lost track now, but I find some relation with Thus Spoke Zarathustra, with the man alone in the desert, being illuminated and all... so there's me wondering if this is how gods are born or Coyote's a special case. Actually, now that I'm thinking about it... If humans create gods to explain natural phenomena, what about science? What gods has the Court created? That same question might have the Seed Bismuth as an answer, what if the fact they understood how it worked instead of relying on another power is what started science?
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Post by Rex on Aug 3, 2012 9:00:58 GMT
Raph, that's definitely possible. Human intellect + etheric seed = Gunnerkrigg Court. Apparently the court grows buildings and facilities that serve to facilitate human curiosity and understanding.
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Earin
Full Member
Posts: 114
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Post by Earin on Aug 3, 2012 9:23:23 GMT
... Because there's explicitly an afterlife of some sort in GC, which Antimony knows?
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Post by lemmingatk on Aug 3, 2012 9:39:23 GMT
Remember, there's a story about Coyote seeing how people were created, which led to his own mishandled attempt at the same. While the wording is vague enough not to restrict Coyote seeing the "first" people being created, it readily implies it. Under that shaky assumption, either [the idea of] Coyote existed before people (as to witness the creation of people), or [the idea of] Coyote sprang from a human mind.
Either way, the sure bet is that vague stories are incomplete in their telling.
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Post by Per on Aug 3, 2012 10:37:33 GMT
I'm dying in the desert and what is this?
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Post by legion on Aug 3, 2012 12:40:28 GMT
hmmmmmm
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Post by exuberancium on Aug 3, 2012 13:00:56 GMT
So does this mean that somewhere there's a living personification of science?
Or maybe this implies that in the Gunnerkrigg universe, internally consistent theories always turn out to be correct because the scientists will them into existence? That would be pretty convenient.
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Post by darlos9d on Aug 3, 2012 13:39:20 GMT
So does this mean that somewhere there's a living personification of science? Or maybe this implies that in the Gunnerkrigg universe, internally consistent theories always turn out to be correct because the scientists will them into existence? That would be pretty convenient. So in GC universe string theory is true?
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Post by phyzome on Aug 3, 2012 13:50:24 GMT
Or maybe this implies that in the Gunnerkrigg universe, internally consistent theories always turn out to be correct because the scientists will them into existence? That would be pretty convenient. But they'd have to believe in the theories, and they're scientists, who don't believe in anything.
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Post by Quizzie on Aug 3, 2012 13:57:43 GMT
Remember, there's a story about Coyote seeing how people were created, which led to his own mishandled attempt at the same. While the wording is vague enough not to restrict Coyote seeing the "first" people being created, it readily implies it. Under that shaky assumption, either [the idea of] Coyote existed before people (as to witness the creation of people), or [the idea of] Coyote sprang from a human mind. Huh. That's somehow very unsettling for me. (The fear that Tom made a mistake.) I wonder how this will be explained. I really hope it will be explained. EDIT: An idea... When a man needs to explain the creation of the world, he makes a god. But the world was created a long time before humans existed. Maybe gods are created with a previous history.
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Post by King Mir on Aug 3, 2012 13:57:50 GMT
... Because there's explicitly an afterlife of some sort in GC, which Antimony knows? All she knows is that all creatures have souls get taken somewhere when they die. She doesn't even know if they continue to live then. The dead don't create and pass on myths. They just go somewhere and never come back. There are apparent gods invented by dead people.
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Rea
Junior Member
Posts: 53
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Post by Rea on Aug 3, 2012 15:03:12 GMT
Mort is dead, isn't he? And Jeanne? Although probably for different reasons, they've somehow stayed on "our" side.
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Post by Stately Buff-Cookie on Aug 3, 2012 16:06:58 GMT
So the world has no inherent meaning, and human delusion brings meaning in to existence in their own minds. This is the most ideal situation possible even before you considering things like gods springing from belief. Even if belief had to physical power, it would still be important. What good is a world where it's meaning is written out already? Where 'truth' is on every grain of sand plain to see? What a terrible world that would be. For it is the ability to decide what the world means for yourself that gives life meaning. What good is a predetermined world? It has no need for life or thought.
The world can only have meaning when the world is meaningless.
Suck on that.
Bullshit philosophy aside, the robots have essentially made Kat a goddess then. Potentially. I know this isn't necessarily the case, but in this case we can only pretend the assumption is true for the sake of discussing it. If the robots gave Kat divinity, this brings up some strange implications about the nature of the robots in the court. More than that, it's entirely possible Kat had no etheric ability by default. Just a very smart little girl, but what happens when she impresses a people enough to make them believe she is a god in a world where belief makes gods? Would she gain an etheric affinity for what she became known?
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Post by FlyingMug on Aug 3, 2012 16:09:53 GMT
So, what if we use the same process to explain the cause Coyote himself? Can we retroactively render him a second order consequence of the process he describes, and would that make him exist?
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Post by GK Sierra on Aug 3, 2012 16:45:58 GMT
So does this mean that somewhere there's a living personification of science? Or maybe this implies that in the Gunnerkrigg universe, internally consistent theories always turn out to be correct because the scientists will them into existence? That would be pretty convenient. That would be Kat. The machines believe she is the angel that will save them, and as Robot convinces more of them, so it becomes truer and truer in reality.
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Post by GK Sierra on Aug 3, 2012 16:49:21 GMT
What good is a world where it's meaning is written out already? Where 'truth' is on every grain of sand plain to see? What a terrible world that would be. For it is the ability to decide what the world means for yourself that gives life meaning. What good is a predetermined world? It has no need for life or thought. Explaining this to Catholics is always good for a laugh. They look like they've tasted sour milk by the time I'm done. That's when I scream, "Calvin was a bugger and pre-destination is rubbish!" It's like winding up a little walking toy a few notches too far and letting it go.
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Post by King Mir on Aug 3, 2012 17:20:15 GMT
So the world has no inherent meaning, and human delusion brings meaning in to existence in their own minds. This is the most ideal situation possible even before you considering things like gods springing from belief. Even if belief had to physical power, it would still be important. What good is a world where it's meaning is written out already? Where 'truth' is on every grain of sand plain to see? What a terrible world that would be. For it is the ability to decide what the world means for yourself that gives life meaning. What good is a predetermined world? It has no need for life or thought. The world can only have meaning when the world is meaningless. Suck on that.I would take it further and say that the world cannot have inherent meaning. The only meaning possible is that which we assign ourselves. If some arbitrary "meaning" were written out somewhere, like a tablet with the meaning of life, it would only be somebody's opinion of the meaning of life but it wouldn't be an objective truth. Even if the tablet was written by your physical or metaphorical parents, they can't create meaning for you. Not by proclamation. They made her an angel, not a god. Though the difference is slight, since many stories of angels are pagan gods reinterpreted by medieval Christians. Also, they didn't bestow her immortality, which is usually a qualification for being a god.
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Post by blahzor on Aug 3, 2012 17:40:50 GMT
They made her an angel, not a god. Though the difference is slight, since many stories of angels are pagan gods reinterpreted by medieval Christians. Also, they didn't bestow her immortality, which is usually a qualification for being a god. gods die all the time, i've seen it happen on my tv in God of War
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Post by King Mir on Aug 3, 2012 17:47:39 GMT
They made her an angel, not a god. Though the difference is slight, since many stories of angels are pagan gods reinterpreted by medieval Christians. Also, they didn't bestow her immortality, which is usually a qualification for being a god. gods die all the time, i've seen it happen on my tv in God of War The usual trope is that they at the very least don't age or become sick. Kat presumably does not qualify.
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Post by djublonskopf on Aug 3, 2012 18:03:07 GMT
It could be that the robots have the same power as the humans, to create new realities. Or it could be that the robots (and Zimmy) see Kat for what she really is . . . while the humans around her see her as a human, because they expect her to be a human.
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Post by GK Sierra on Aug 3, 2012 18:49:51 GMT
Kat presumably does not qualify. Many gods were once mortal. Tiber Septim was a king of men before Akatosh inducted him as the Ninth Divine, Talos. Heracles became a god after he was slain, the only such example in the entire Greek pantheon. Jesus of Nazareth was very much human before becoming the third wedge of the Christian Trinity. He even died. Coyote would not approve.
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Post by Per on Aug 3, 2012 19:22:33 GMT
gods die all the time, i've seen it happen on my tv in God of War As a counterpoint I suggest Borges. Heracles became a god after he was slain, the only such example in the entire Greek pantheon. Depending on your definition of "god" there are other examples of ascension, e.g. Acis who was a half-god like Heracles but also regular mortals.
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Post by GK Sierra on Aug 3, 2012 19:26:22 GMT
Heracles became a god after he was slain, the only such example in the entire Greek pantheon. Depending on your definition of "god" there are other examples of ascension, e.g. Acis who was a half-god like Heracles but also regular mortals. True. There's all manner of deities, from messenger gods to demi-gods to Zeus, who was a king of other gods. My point was that Kat is becoming something more than human.
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