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Post by Max on Mar 12, 2012 7:07:44 GMT
Ouch. To be fair, he did specifically get transferred to her, rather than to Donny.
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Post by blackmantha on Mar 12, 2012 7:09:02 GMT
Talk fast, Donnie.
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Post by smjjames on Mar 12, 2012 7:11:10 GMT
Uh oh.
I'm sure Annie feels like throwing a fireball at Donald right now.
So, Donnie knew where Anthony was all these years? Or perhaps there is more to it and Andrew is trying to get a secure connection through?
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Post by SpitefulFox on Mar 12, 2012 7:12:23 GMT
Watch as Annie burns down Microsat 5 as revenge.
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Post by wynne on Mar 12, 2012 7:12:29 GMT
That last panel is "Donald remembers that Annie has feelings." Still, when all is said and done I rather like this fellow. He seems like the compassionate sort.
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Post by legion on Mar 12, 2012 7:19:08 GMT
Awkward.
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Post by fillerb on Mar 12, 2012 8:00:39 GMT
Anthony Carver. Still a huge dick.
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Post by Max on Mar 12, 2012 8:07:03 GMT
I'm wondering if Microsat 5 is a secure way to transmit messages. In which case he may simply be wishing to talk to her more fully once they can secure a method of transmission.
As an aside, I'm not sure I'm understanding how "Antimony" could be part of the coded message. From what I understand about one-time pads, this would imply that Anthony knew of the message way back when he made the list of keys for Donny. Either that, or "Antimony" happened to be the encrypted message, which seems unlikely.
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Post by fillerb on Mar 12, 2012 8:28:24 GMT
Or the first word is the name of the key to use. So he first used the wrong key to decipher the message which resulted in something that, while legit English, didn't make sense at all then used the "Antimony"-sheet to decipher the message and got "Microsat 5" out of it. Would explain why he went "Ah!" when he heard that "Antimony" was the first thing Anthony said.
This also explains how Donny could decipher the thing at all this the biggest problem with one-time pads is telling the other party which key to use. If they agreed way back when that the first word is the name of the key...
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Post by Max on Mar 12, 2012 8:45:15 GMT
I'm now imagining Anthony naming giving her name specifically show he could use it as an innocuous key. Which doesn't make any since, but I could sort of imagine Anthony doing something like that.
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Post by Alexandragon on Mar 12, 2012 8:45:46 GMT
How horrible... Poor Annie... Watch as Annie burns down Microsat 5 as revenge. Fire BALL out, sir!
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Post by foresterr on Mar 12, 2012 9:42:09 GMT
Oh my, that face Donny makes in the last panel. The face of a well-meaning geek fully fixated on solving a technical problem, and being completely, absolutely sure that when he solves that problem all will be well for everyone. And then somebody says something, and he realizes it will not. And that the real problem has to do with how people feel about it, not with the technical solution. Not at all.
Kudos to Donny, he seems genuinely sad. I sometimes get mad at the person instead (which sucks for both of us, in the end). And kudos to Tom for getting downright personal with me ;-)
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Post by TBeholder on Mar 12, 2012 10:56:56 GMT
Oh, well... Thanks, Donny. That was a really smooth distraction! (sigh) To be fair, he did specifically get transferred to her, rather than to Donny. Right now it looks like an attempt to blend the address in. Aaand since Annie didn't dig into the finer implications yet... I'm wondering if Microsat 5 is a secure way to transmit messages. In which case he may simply be wishing to talk to her more fully once they can secure a method of transmission. Which is far from guaranteed, but definitely possible, considering he suddenly involved her in this. That last panel is "Donald remembers that Annie has feelings." Still, when all is said and done I rather like this fellow. He seems like the compassionate sort. The face of a well-meaning geek fully fixated on solving a technical problem Yup, suddenly brought back to Earth in the middle of geeking out... it's not even "awkward", it's somewhere around " Awkwaaard" grade. As an aside, I'm not sure I'm understanding how "Antimony" could be part of the coded message. It's a matter of alphabet and possibly other extra syntax wrappers.
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Post by basser on Mar 12, 2012 11:11:03 GMT
I'm wondering if Microsat 5 is a secure way to transmit messages. In which case he may simply be wishing to talk to her more fully once they can secure a method of transmission. As an aside, I'm not sure I'm understanding how "Antimony" could be part of the coded message. From what I understand about one-time pads, this would imply that Anthony knew of the message way back when he made the list of keys for Donny. Either that, or "Antimony" happened to be the encrypted message, which seems unlikely. Well it is on the periodic table of elements and they are huge nerds. Maybe there's a code for each one. Alkali metals are SOS, noble gases when everything's alright. Transition metals for when you want to wreak emotional devastation on your only child. (Sb is a transition metal. Just.. just in case nobody got that.)
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Post by foresterr on Mar 12, 2012 11:28:31 GMT
(Sb is a transition metal. Just.. just in case nobody got that.) Is not! Antimony is a metalloid!
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Post by hslugs on Mar 12, 2012 11:31:48 GMT
So far the chapter name could have been "Donald Donlan: the character". And the thing is, that's good. Does explain a lot about Kat's character as well.
Now, Anthony Carver is an interesting case. Almost nothing new about him, but now with so much new information about Donlans I'm starting to wonder how he ended up with Surma. Also, while Annie has her reasons to be upset, I think she's overreacting here. Chances are that message was all Anthony could get across.
basser: no, you're trying to interpret it as a kind of substitution chipher. A weak kind, at that. Code books do not work this way. The message itself is key for fetching something (usually letters) out of the book, typically with redundancy to allow for meaningful cryptomessage, and also with a lot of space for variations. The initial part of the message could have affected, say, page selection — note Donald tries to make sure he's got the right page in the panel 1.
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Post by agasa on Mar 12, 2012 12:24:40 GMT
Keep in mind that if Carver didn't want to use that specific word (Antimony) as the message opener, he simply wouldn't have done so. The rest of the message would have been different, for sure, because of the properties of one-time pads, but it was a choice he made.
He's not _that_ heartless.
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Post by basser on Mar 12, 2012 12:35:18 GMT
(Sb is a transition metal. Just.. just in case nobody got that.) Is not! Antimony is a metalloid! Whoops my bad. In my defense I am a terrible chemist. (Do you want to know what the worst part is I just realised there's a massive poster of the periodic table on the wall behind me. Hurp durp.) basser: no, you're trying to interpret it as a kind of substitution chipher. A weak kind, at that. Code books do not work this way. The message itself is key for fetching something (usually letters) out of the book, typically with redundancy to allow for meaningful cryptomessage, and also with a lot of space for variations. The initial part of the message could have affected, say, page selection — note Donald tries to make sure he's got the right page in the panel 1. I don't know anything about codes man. I don't even know anything about metals, despite working in a metallurgical assay lab! You can't expect me to have the kind of brain smarts for all this cipherin hoohah an' whatnot.
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Post by mikeymikemikey on Mar 12, 2012 12:36:18 GMT
Now, Anthony Carver is an interesting case. Almost nothing new about him, but now with so much new information about Donlans I'm starting to wonder how he ended up with Surma. Also, while Annie has her reasons to be upset, I think she's overreacting here. Chances are that message was all Anthony could get across. Meh, I'm still in the too early to call group. All we know about him are as follows: 1) Left Annie. Circumstances behind it are hinted at, but no real conclusive information as yet. 2) Negative opinions by Rey and Eglamore, but both were rivals for Surma's love, so there may be a healthy infusion of bias coloring their opinions. They may honestly believe their own opinion to be true, but it may not necessarily be objectively so. 3) Negative opinion by Jones. However, it was deliberately worded to get a bad reaction out of Annie. 4) Flashback to what amounts to a one line, a few seconds of interaction, and a snippy comment by kid Eglamore. Which isn't enough information to judge a person. One of my best friends confided in me that the first time he saw me he thought I was mean and scary because I didn't say much and looked perpetually frowning--but then he later realized that I only really open up when I'm comfortable around people, and that I'm a gregarious chatterbox if I'm in the company of people I feel comfortable around. 5) Annie's flashback dream. A mixed bag. Surma's smile, though sad, seemed genuine when she was trying to comfort him. And he looked genuinely weeping for his dying wife. On the other hand, also a big hint that he may very well be blaming Surma's impending death on his then-very-young daughter. 7) Donny in the flashback and in this chapter currently does not seem quite as hostile to him as Eglamore. There may even be a note of fondness, though how much of that is currently for Annie's benefit we don't yet know. 6) And now this. Information incomplete until the whole chapter plays out. And for all we know, it'll play out raising as much questions as it does answers, if any. Really, until his whole arc plays out, I just can't get a complete feel for him as a person. For me, his true character can still go either way, and it's too early to say on his reasons for ending up with Surma.
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Post by Serenissima on Mar 12, 2012 13:56:25 GMT
Could be either very good or very bad. Everyone's been kind of assuming that Anthony is a total bastard, but in a sense, I hope he isn't; that'd make the story very, very bleak and clear-cut. And if there's something I think GKC has avoided, it's being clear-cut and obvious about almost anything.
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gary
Full Member
Posts: 121
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Post by gary on Mar 12, 2012 13:58:11 GMT
Also, while Annie has her reasons to be upset, I think she's overreacting here. Chances are that message was all Anthony could get across. Is there any reason for Annie to believe her father's communication with her is limited for any other reason then his desires? After all he left, as far as we know, by his own free will. The fact that he is capable of sending this message to her, presumably has left her the impression that he could have contacted her whenever he wanted and just doesn't want to talk to her unless it's to use her to relay messages to people he actually does want to talk to. I can see why that would be a little upsetting. Which is why I'm in the "we know enough about him to call him rude names" camp.
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Post by mikeymikemikey on Mar 12, 2012 14:10:59 GMT
Which is why I'm in the "we know enough about him to call him rude names" camp. Well, yeah, sure. There's just a long line between that and "complete, unredeemable bastard with no feelings" I've come across with frequency looking back on older posts.
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Post by davidm on Mar 12, 2012 14:41:11 GMT
"Anthony Carver. Still a huge dick."
'Which is why I'm in the "we know enough about him to call him rude names" camp.'
- while his wife was alive he spent all his effort on trying to keep her alive. It is possible that he is now spending all his effort on keeping his daughter alive. Yes it may be oversight to not actually spend time with her. Or it could be he is in dangerous territory and does not want to put daughter into danger.
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Post by davidm on Mar 12, 2012 14:45:24 GMT
(knowing that as soon as your wife and daughter make baby that they become bed-ridden and life slowly drained from them can be motivation to try and stop whatever is doing that. With wife dead all that is left of family is in daughter. Father may view the fire in her as evil curse/demon to be exorcised. Father may be treading on dangerous territory, as such a view would put him in conflict with Court and/or Forest, and possible from Jeanne, etc that view is life is at risk if you disagree. In early days of court there was one person whose role it was to strongly disagree with direction court was going)
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Post by disarticulatethis on Mar 12, 2012 15:16:25 GMT
To be fair, he did specifically get transferred to her, rather than to Donny. This actually makes it worse IMO. Now, my 2 cents regarding Anthony being a dick or not... There is reasoning, and there is justification. And they are totally separate and different things. Let me explain: Circumstances, emotional difficulties and/or social skills impairment for whatever reason are all valid and realistic cases regarding his attitude towards Antimony. It's human to be hurt in such a way that you simply malfunction emotionally - even to the point of hurting other peoples feelings, and this is what 99,99% of the time happens when someone "is a dick". This is reasoning. And Anthony is de facto a tragic character who carried a huge burden in several ways, and I can understand how he can't let go of a grudge, something which is probably made even worse by his character (of which we don't know much, and even that is not 100% reliable). On the other hand, this doesn't actually stand as a justification. Being a dick ultimately ends up, well, simply being a dick. Which Anthony demonstrates greatly. No matter how heartbroken he might be, no matter what emotional baggage he carries Antimony is still his daughter, and there is absolutely no excuse for him to treat her like that. He might as well have encoded in the message his regards for her, or an explanation or anything - not only he chose not to but he actually made a gesture which cruelly was simply a pretext for his own means. An unjustifiable, egoistic and fully conscious decision which profoundly would hurt Antimony. So, I would go ahead and say that not only is he a dick, he actually takes the cake for being an as****e who is afraid to do any step in overcoming his own insecurities and complexities. The only unprobable possibility in which all of this can happen and him still not being that is in a case of a great conspiracy where his each and every movement is framed and communicating with Antimony would put her in grave danger - or his actions actually not being controlled by himself. But it still doesn't explain everything so I'm really not betting on that being true.
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Post by anaheyla on Mar 12, 2012 15:30:15 GMT
It is possible to be a good guy without being necessarily nice. Batman routinely beats the crap out of people in a very violent fashion.
Whether or not Anthony is doing something to protect Annie, he's still a jerk from what we know so far.
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Post by fillerb on Mar 12, 2012 15:57:44 GMT
I don't think anyone is denying that whatever Anthony did with finding a cure is out of love for Surma.
But... he suddenly left everyone behind after Surma's death and as far as we know did not even say goodbye to Antimony AND the look that he gave her when Surma died was a far from pleasant one. Outside of Surma and now Donald he was never shown to be close to anyone _including_ his own daughter who he, based on the previous mentioned look, seemingly blames for taking Surma's life.
We do not know for certain whether he still is looking for a cure for Antimony. I personally think that he isn't just based on that if your trying to cure something of this magnitude, a very very rare genetic "disease", you should have access to state of the art technology and blood samples. Both conveniently located at the Court. Maybe he is somewhere out there hunting Fire Elementals or scouring old libraries but that should give him plenty of free time to atleast send Annie an email once a week. Would ripping the Fire Elemental out of Annie be seen as objectionable by the Court preventing him from continuing his work there? I doubt it given the Courts stand. You would think that they would LOVE having something like this available to them.
The only thing we DO know about him is that he A) loved Surma, B) that during his years at the Court he was friends with Donald and C) that Jones/Reys/Eglamores opinion about him being emotion-less was at least partially true during those same years.
So given that all the current evidence point to Anthony being at the very least a terrible parent (hooray you cured your daughter but she is an emotional wreck with very understandable abandonment issues) and a huge dick by any measure you might think of. Even if, and that is a huge if, he want to use microsat 5 to directly speak to Antimony over a secure line... what exactly does he wants to say to her? "Sorry for being such a terrible parent but I may have found a cure to rip out the very part that makes you you."? That is going to go over SOOO well.
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Post by hslugs on Mar 12, 2012 18:17:05 GMT
Anthony may not be aware of how much he hurt Antimony at all. Note it's not immediately obvious even for Donald, who is markedly much less detached from human emotions. Anthony, with his "matters to attend to", and without Annie to point it out to him, might not have realized his words will be interpreted this way. He did call Annie after all, not Donald or anyone else, and he did call her by name. Using the name to transfer some extra data? Well, a really neat trick, a thing some geeks would appreciate.
People are fast to call him a dick, and while from certain points of view it may be right, I think it's more complicated than that. Anothony is not a regular person, and his point of view may be wildly different.
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Post by Mishmash on Mar 12, 2012 18:20:26 GMT
I like how in this page you can really see that Donny is Kat's father. I'd love to see them working together on something, there'd be so much excitement!
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Post by TBeholder on Mar 12, 2012 18:51:39 GMT
Well it is on the periodic table of elements and they are huge nerds. Maybe there's a code for each one. Alkali metals are SOS, noble gases when everything's alright. Transition metals for when you want to wreak emotional devastation on your only child. That doesn't fit (since the variant with "Annie" was considered), but i like the principle... ;D Keep in mind that if Carver didn't want to use that specific word (Antimony) as the message opener, he simply wouldn't have done so. The rest of the message would have been different, for sure, because of the properties of one-time pads, but it was a choice he made. He's not _that_ heartless. In other words, used it to involve her intentionally. Which makes further communication quite likely. It is possible to be a good guy without being necessarily nice. Batman routinely beats the crap out of people in a very violent fashion. As far as i can see, Batman makes his own issues the other folk's problem and with Anthony it's the exact opposite - the only common point being that both are obsessive and thus outdo it. So it seems to be a matter of definitions... I like how in this page you can really see that Donny is Kat's father. I'd love to see them working together on something, there'd be so much excitement! I got a hunch that if they had to, Donald would inadvertently send Kat into more than one sudden fit of brain-freeze. I bet something like this will happen the first time she sees that "door", for example.
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