percival
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there's a storm a-brewin'
Posts: 119
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Post by percival on Oct 7, 2010 16:22:54 GMT
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Post by jayne on Oct 7, 2010 17:11:27 GMT
Hmmm... Surma's best friend has a symbolic necklace, and Annie has a symbolic necklace (noticed by Rey). Possibly Annie and Anja's necklaces are more significant that just jewelry and Surma would only pass her's on upon her death.
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Post by Mishmash on Oct 7, 2010 18:05:30 GMT
It is implied that Annie was only going to come to the Court if Surma died. There is a flashback where we see Anja crying while reading a form saying that Annie is coming to the school.
We don't know really. Could be a combination of both, or something else entirely!
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Post by jayne on Oct 7, 2010 19:43:33 GMT
Anthony would have sent the telegram to Anja and set up all the details. Did Surma not want Annie to go to school here? She never even mentioned it to Annie... or at least never mentioned she'd worked here.
Anthony set her up then disappeared.
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percival
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there's a storm a-brewin'
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Post by percival on Oct 7, 2010 20:02:09 GMT
It is implied that Annie was only going to come to the Court if Surma died. There is a flashback where we see Anja crying while reading a form saying that Annie is coming to the school. We don't know really. Could be a combination of both, or something else entirely! I remember that flashback now, but how would Reynardine know about that arrangement? This page suggests that Annie's very existence means Surma has passed, and that Reynardine knew that having a child meant illness and death for Surma.
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Post by Casey on Oct 7, 2010 20:27:10 GMT
Something like that, yeah... I suspect that we'll find out later on that for some unknown (as yet) reason, Annie and Surma literally could not be apart. When explaining why she lived in Good Hope, Annie said that she and her mother "couldn't bear to be apart", and I think it runs deeper than emotionally.
So then, finding out that Annie was at the school (and thus apart from Surma) would mean that Surma -had- to be dead.
Interestingly, that would also mean that Reynardine knows what Surma's condition was that had her in the hospital, and he's not telling Annie.
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Post by blackmantha on Oct 8, 2010 8:34:30 GMT
This page suggests that Annie's very existence means Surma has passed, and that Reynardine knew that having a child meant illness and death for Surma. I think it's more likely that the fact that Annie had Surma's necklace meant that she was gone.
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percival
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there's a storm a-brewin'
Posts: 119
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Post by percival on Oct 9, 2010 17:37:33 GMT
Check out page 592. Reynardine says "you have a fire in you child, a fire that belonged to your mother". Of course this could just mean she's inherited her mother's fiery personality. But could it mean that Annie actually took something from Surma?
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Post by Mezzaphor on Oct 9, 2010 22:06:50 GMT
Interestingly, that would also mean that Reynardine knows what Surma's condition was that had her in the hospital, and he's not telling Annie. There's a lot of things that Reynardine knows but won't tell Annie. Remember, she learned about his relationship with Surma from everyone except Rey.
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Post by jayne on Oct 9, 2010 22:22:53 GMT
Do you think this means Surma left the court because she was pregnant or because she was sick or for some other reason?
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percival
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there's a storm a-brewin'
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Post by percival on Oct 10, 2010 15:13:45 GMT
I just think there is a connection between Annie being born and Surma's declining health, and Reynardine was aware of that connection.
Side question, does anyone else think Anthony might not be Annie's father? Perhaps Reynardine was successful in wooing Surma in the body of the man he originally possessed. Which would mean Reynardine is essentially Annie's father! That would explain some things.
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Post by Mezzaphor on Oct 10, 2010 20:13:07 GMT
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Post by todd on Oct 10, 2010 22:09:03 GMT
Unfortunately, that's had about as much impact on a lot of the readers as his similar statement (now definitely confirmed in Chapter Twenty-two) that Jones is not the third girl in the photograph.
(Maybe we're all too used to stories where the person whom you thought was your father turns out not to be your father.)
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Post by Mezzaphor on Oct 11, 2010 5:11:07 GMT
Maybe too few readers follow the goings-on in this forum.
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Post by todd on Oct 11, 2010 10:30:11 GMT
Or (as I said once) it could be the philosophy of "What the author says about his work doesn't count; only what the actual work says counts."
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Post by idonotlikepeas on Oct 11, 2010 12:01:22 GMT
I think it's mostly that some people want their own theories to be true even when the author has explicitly stated that they aren't.
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Post by tyler on Oct 11, 2010 12:37:33 GMT
Some people just can't read.
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Post by theweatherman on Oct 11, 2010 23:30:07 GMT
I always thought that Annie had a disease or something when she was born, and Surma gave up her life by switching the disease to herself or something among those lines. Either way it was Surma's life for Annie's.
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percival
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there's a storm a-brewin'
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Post by percival on Oct 12, 2010 13:12:15 GMT
Anthony Carver... you ARE the father! Jeez guys, beat up the noob for not reading the ENTIRE forum before posting! Anyway, here's another potential clue. "I would be of no use to you. Not anymore." Initially I took this to mean she couldn't help because she was ill, but perhaps it's because she's given something to Annie, something critical to her abilities as a medium, and her life.
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Post by jayne on Oct 14, 2010 15:37:35 GMT
So, somehow Rey knew Annie would not be there if Surma was alive. If Surma was alive, Annie would not be there... therefore... what? - Surma didn't want Annie there?
- Surma couldn't survive with Annie away from her?
Any more?
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Post by evilanagram on Oct 14, 2010 16:20:28 GMT
Surma's friends knew she was terminally ill and wanted to keep her daughter at her side while she was still alive?
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Post by jayne on Oct 14, 2010 16:32:50 GMT
Surma's friends knew she was terminally ill and wanted to keep her daughter at her side while she was still alive? This means Surma was ill before leaving the court since Rey knew about it.
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Post by basser on Oct 26, 2010 3:22:19 GMT
Is it just me or did it seem like that hospital (or that floor, I suppose) had a LOT of freaking deaths? Especially for a long-term care facility? I mean either the doctors there are a bit sketch, or it was a place specifically meant for the terminally ill. Maybe Surma got cancer from all the etheric radiation. Soul cancer. That kept her bedridden for over a decade.
Come to think of it, what the HELL kind of disease is there that would keep someone confined to hospital for twelve freaking years? And looking generally well for most of those years? (She is neither pale, unnaturally thin-looking, nor balding, so I'm leaning away from cancer.) Perhaps she had some sort of catastrophic immunodeficiency that required her to be in a sterile environment... but then why the confinement to a bed? Damn it, Tom, you and your lack of answers!
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Post by Elaienar on Oct 26, 2010 4:15:14 GMT
Dunno how much bearing this has on other hospitals, but when my aunt was in ICU at MD Anderson it seemed like we had a death every two or five days, just in our little section of about eight rooms. Surma's room didn't look like like the rooms there, though (they had glass doors and a window for the nurses to look through). Could Antimony have been wandering around other floors, or did Muut perhaps come through Surma's floor on his way to the ICU or the hospice floor?
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Post by jayne on Oct 26, 2010 13:05:33 GMT
The cancer doesn't necessarily make you bald, the radiation treatment does that. No clue if etheric radiation has the same effect.
But yes, she does look awfully good for someone too weak to move for 12 years.
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ryos
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Post by ryos on Oct 26, 2010 19:02:28 GMT
Unfortunately, that's had about as much impact on a lot of the readers as his similar statement (now definitely confirmed in Chapter Twenty-two) that Jones is not the third girl in the photograph. (Maybe we're all too used to stories where the person whom you thought was your father turns out not to be your father.) It's very easy to misconstrue even direct statements. For example: Tom stated directly that Anthony Carver is Annie's father, but he left off the "biological" qualifier. The statement leaves room for him to be an adoptive father (which would not make him any less her father). Personally, I want to believe that Carver is Annie's father in every sense of the word. That girl just doesn't need the drama of finding out that someone she associates with or is even close to is really her biological father.
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Post by jayne on Oct 26, 2010 19:52:38 GMT
Unfortunately, that's had about as much impact on a lot of the readers as his similar statement (now definitely confirmed in Chapter Twenty-two) that Jones is not the third girl in the photograph. (Maybe we're all too used to stories where the person whom you thought was your father turns out not to be your father.) It's very easy to misconstrue even direct statements. For example: Tom stated directly that Anthony Carver is Annie's father, but he left off the "biological" qualifier. The statement leaves room for him to be an adoptive father (which would not make him any less her father). Personally, I want to believe that Carver is Annie's father in every sense of the word. That girl just doesn't need the drama of finding out that someone she associates with or is even close to is really her biological father. Well, i was going to say I thought Anthony was her biological father because she looks like him but in this one Anthony looks a lot like Surma so its just hard to say. His eyes are darker but the same shape. The other two boys have squared jaws but he has the same jaw as Surma. I still think he's her father but I'm not to sure about Surma and his relationship now...
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Post by Tobu Ishi on Nov 6, 2010 2:26:00 GMT
Maybe she had a spinal injury? Do we ever see her up and walking around, other than when Annie was guiding her spirit to the afterlife?
HEY, JUST FOR FUN, HOW ABOUT A BASELESSLY-EXTRAPOLATED AND EXTREMELY UNLIKELY POSSIBLE EXAMPLE?
Surma was caught up in the conflict between the Court and the Forest when Reynardine was captured. She never got over the guilt stemming from her involvement in the incident, and secretly allied herself with Coyote in hopes of finding a way to rescue Reynardine from his captivity.
Just after the birth of her first child, while she was still bedridden, some planning emergency arose and she attempted to secretly cross the Annan Waters in her etheric form to get to the Forest, but met with Jeanne along the way. In the ensuing etheric scuffle, her 'spine' was severed by the ghost, crippling her both etherically and physically, for upon barely managing to return to her body she found herself unable to walk.
There was no acceptable explanation for why she would have been astrally projecting into the Forest at such a time without telling anyone. Unwilling to confess her plans and incriminate herself and her new family as traitors, she kept mum about the reason for her injury and claimed to have fallen mysteriously ill. She and Anthony left the Court for Good Hope on some convincing excuse, to forestall any investigation or examination of her wound by Court specialists, but since this would rob the Court of its Medium, they left under the condition that Surma would teach her own daughter for as long as she was able, then either return with her to the Court when she was fully trained or send her to the Court to complete her training should Surma's mysterious illness prove fatal. This suited Surma perfectly well - if Antimony was a fully-trained medium when they returned to the Court together, then she would be able to defend herself against any retaliation attempt if the truth came out, and if she returned after Surma's death, there would be no way to interrogate/examine Surma and discover her etheric injury and thereby her crime.
Although Anthony spent the next twelve years searching for a cure for her etheric injury, it refused to heal, much like Antimony's face cut, and Surma's life force gradually drained away. It was a slow and gentle but inevitable way to die. She did her best to train her daughter, and kept the secret of her injury from her so that she could not incriminate her family if the worst happened.
Finally, she passed away quietly in her bed. The strange cause of her death left her outside the jurisdiction of any psychopomp, leaving her own daughter to complete the first stage of her training by guiding her to the next life. It was the first and last time since her injury that the once-barefoot, laughing Surma had ever walked on her own two feet.
And when her friends saw that her young daughter was indeed coming to the Court, untrained and alone, they knew what must have happened.
THE ABOVE IS TOTAL NONSENSE, A MERE EXERCISE IN CREATIVE WRITING WILDLY EMBROIDERED ON WHAT LITTLE WE CURRENTLY KNOW. PLEASE DON'T TAKE IT SERIOUSLY.
...I do genuinely wonder if it was a spinal injury, though. :3
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Post by djublonskopf on Nov 6, 2010 19:06:25 GMT
...I do genuinely wonder if it was a spinal injury, though. :3 Ever since it became apparent that Annie's cheek cut was "permanent", (and since she got the cheek cut in the same chapter we saw her mother in the hospital with a mystery illnesss), I have wondered if Surma suffered a slightly more serious version of the etheric cheek cut.
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