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Post by Snes on Aug 4, 2010 7:01:54 GMT
[756]Paz is quite the optimist, isn't she?
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Post by Max on Aug 4, 2010 7:02:48 GMT
I get the feeling Paz knows more than she's letting on.
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Flux
New Member
It's like when my math-teacher said to me: "Your nothing, I'm hundred times better then you.".
Posts: 33
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Post by Flux on Aug 4, 2010 7:04:41 GMT
Something to think about, Kat.
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Post by centzontotochtin on Aug 4, 2010 7:05:34 GMT
Was anyone else thinking all this time that Paz was naive/innocent to the point of being unable to deal with moral ambiguity? Also, is anyone else currently facepalming for thinking this?
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Post by shadrach on Aug 4, 2010 7:09:12 GMT
Brava, Paz! Well said.
Now let's hope that snaps Kat out of her funk.
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Post by joephlommin on Aug 4, 2010 7:09:13 GMT
Now im kind of interested in this chapter.
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Post by Dvandaemon on Aug 4, 2010 7:09:35 GMT
I find Paz's viewpoint to work, even if a little idealistic
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Post by eightyfour on Aug 4, 2010 7:23:32 GMT
Was anyone else thinking all this time that Paz was naive/innocent to the point of being unable to deal with moral ambiguity? Also, is anyone else currently facepalming for thinking this? Well, to be fair we knew quite little about her so far. Two out of three times she's been featured prominently so far she's been "the victim", and the third time at least gravely disappointed. It's only natural to put her into the "naive/innocent" box. That said, I applaud Paz to actually attempt to change things, especially with an adversary as huge as "the court". So much easier to just shut your eyes and go with the flow.
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Post by Gemini Jim on Aug 4, 2010 7:44:31 GMT
Heh. On the one hand, the political junkie in me likes how two innocent school girls can have a college-level allegorical discourse on the state of the American politics. "The system is broken" vs. "Work within the system" ;D On the other hand, give them a chessboard and they could be Professor X and Magneto. Or maybe Green Lantern and Green Arrow, if you prefer DC.
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Post by GK Sierra on Aug 4, 2010 7:44:58 GMT
I love the way Paz takes a normally stupid haircut like a bowl cut and just breathes new life into it.
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Post by dawngazer on Aug 4, 2010 7:59:19 GMT
Not that I'm complaining, but is anyone else thinking Tom's laying it on a bit thick? Or am I just hallucinating again?
On the flip side, is it just me (again) or is Tom's artistic detail getting better? If you say no you're clearly wrong.
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Post by centzontotochtin on Aug 4, 2010 8:29:32 GMT
Well, to be fair we knew quite little about her so far. Two out of three times she's been featured prominently so far she's been "the victim", and the third time at least gravely disappointed. It's only natural to put her into the "naive/innocent" box. Very true, but this also means I was wrong. About a comic. On the internet. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD NOT BE.
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Post by penguinfactory on Aug 4, 2010 9:25:00 GMT
Yeah, that pigeon is pretty much guaranteed to die now
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Post by tyler on Aug 4, 2010 10:13:16 GMT
Heh. On the one hand, the political junkie in me likes how two innocent school girls can have a college-level allegorical discourse on the state of the American politics. "The system is broken" vs. "Work within the system" ;D On the other hand, give them a chessboard and they could be Professor X and Magneto. Or maybe Green Lantern and Green Arrow, if you prefer DC. I can't see Kat as Ollie... However, I can see King Mob and Mason, if you want to go Vertigo.
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Post by legion on Aug 4, 2010 13:26:00 GMT
Ah, "get on the plane to hijack it"; if only that worked in real life too
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Post by TBeholder on Aug 4, 2010 14:16:21 GMT
Well, to be fair we knew quite little about her so far. Two out of three times she's been featured prominently so far she's been "the victim", and the third time at least gravely disappointed. It's only natural to put her into the "naive/innocent" box. It's only natural to expect that years of being a chew-toy are somehow conducive to remaining unaware of just how much can go wrong? I don't get it. Heh. On the one hand, the political junkie in me likes how two innocent school girls can have a college-level allegorical discourse on the state of the American politics. "The system is broken" vs. "Work within the system" ;D On the other hand, give them a chessboard and they could be Professor X and Magneto. Or maybe Green Lantern and Green Arrow, if you prefer DC. If we're into confessions, my after-reading reaction was to shudder in the anticipation of a massive wiki-yay. But of course, you're quite right, possible misconstructions are in no way limited to the digital maoism. Ah, "get on the plane to hijack it"; if only that worked in real life too Well, it depends on the system. What they have is almost uncontrolled and almost uncontrollable self-organized community. Got lots of quirky individuals with their own areas of enthusiasm and much more points on to-do list and thus have to run on whatever goodwill participants can spare. Not unlike an OSS project that gradually grew way too big. ;D
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Post by phyzome on Aug 4, 2010 14:59:39 GMT
This is a good reminder that all institutions are just made of people. They may be people who follow a set of rules, but that is a choice on their part, and can be unchosen. (Or the rules changed.)
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Post by djublonskopf on Aug 4, 2010 19:11:58 GMT
This is a good reminder that all institutions are just made of people. They may be people who follow a set of rules, but that is a choice on their part, and can be unchosen. (Or the rules changed.) You're right, and you sparked my thinking in a tangential direction. This is probably true of real-life institutions. But what does it mean for wildly un-real-life fictional institutions like the forest? Even the most corrupt of our real-life groups of people doesn't have an omnipotent prankster god stirring things up. My thoughts aren't really all together, so I'm posing it as a question: does Paz's claim hold for the Forest, or are they exempt from the rule?
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Post by Max on Aug 4, 2010 20:05:43 GMT
I couldn't help but notice how similar the last panel of this page was to the last panel of 522
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optern
Junior Member
Posts: 84
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Post by optern on Aug 4, 2010 20:37:02 GMT
I really like this page, and this chapter. And I don't think it's out of place or at the wrong depth for these characters. These people might be young, but they're not stupid. Tom's good about remembering the difference.
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Post by Mishmash on Aug 4, 2010 21:17:58 GMT
I really love this page, Paz is great. She perfectly sums up an important point the story has been focusing on lately, and does it in style!
And Max, that is an interesting parallel you pointed out. The way Kat is able to listen to the point of view of people who disagree with her and really think about what they are saying is one of my favourite things about her character.
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Chrome
Full Member
The Shiny One
Posts: 232
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Post by Chrome on Aug 4, 2010 21:44:41 GMT
Man, Kat just got told.
I also didn't take Paz too seriously until this chapter either. However, Tom hasn't given us many "take her seriously" views of the girl until now anyways.
And it's interesting to see Paz is actually quite tough - willing to see a potential positive outcome in a situation, and do the hard work to get there rather than to just give up or wish for it. This is something Kat needs, quite badly. Right now she's failing around, angry, lashing out, without seeing the possible positive outcome.
I think what Tom is doing is to show that however bleak things look, while you may never fix them completely, you can improve them to where you feel better, and those affected by the situation feel better too. Sometimes that's all you really need.
And yes, whoever said Annie has a better understanding of this...I agree. Sometimes you really have to know a bad situation before you can know how you can pull some good out of it. I think she'll be able to take what Paz just did to Kat, and expand on it. She's used to being in un-ideal situations, and making them work for her. Kat most definitely is not.
Another person who may be really good for Kat might be Anja. She strikes me as a fairly gentle soul herself, and probably doesn't have any illusions as to how science is sometimes garnered at the expense of others.
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Post by Max on Aug 4, 2010 22:25:25 GMT
I would really love to see Kat undertake some covert investigations of her own into the court's true nature. Y'know, with miniature spybots and computer hacking
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lovecraft1024
Full Member
What does anything mean? Basically
Posts: 118
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Post by lovecraft1024 on Aug 5, 2010 0:04:18 GMT
... Another person who may be really good for Kat might be Anja. She strikes me as a fairly gentle soul herself, and probably doesn't have any illusions as to how science is sometimes garnered at the expense of others. I was thinking along a similar line. Annie has Jones as a mentor (for better or worse). Paz seems to have some sort of mentor, at least an interaction with Court people doing biology experiments. Kat has... who? She's off in some corner of the Court, hammering away at making a robot, with no adult assistance, much less guidance. Her mom might be good for her, but then again, it's her mom, and we know how uncool parents are. And note how much parental love Anja has shown to Kat since Chapter 25 Just musing...
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Post by Ulysses on Aug 5, 2010 0:04:51 GMT
Stop! Analogy Time! You can't touch el pichón.
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Post by legion on Aug 5, 2010 1:42:15 GMT
Stop! Analogy Time! You can't touch el pichón. Oh you.
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Post by theweatherman on Aug 5, 2010 1:51:31 GMT
Hmm... looks like Kat is gunna be happy again! XD
Whoever said the thing about Kat using spybots and computer hacking to check out the court and maybe make some changes...I can totally see that happening and I can't wait.
Oh and the reason we ain't seen much of Anja is cos the comic isn't about them, it's about the girls, I think Tom said they've noticed Kat is a little more moody than usual but that's about it.
I'm still holding onto the ideal that Kat has magic powers (Anja got them somehow, it's likely that it could be passed down geneticly!
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Aug 5, 2010 4:40:35 GMT
And with your help, and bobby and me, he will grow up to be beautiful! Well...he'll grow up to be a pigeon, anyway. Let's not overreach.
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Post by TBeholder on Aug 5, 2010 4:43:57 GMT
In other news, it looked more cute when Kat was into the birds or cuddled a mantis-bot, but her last overreaction is essentially the same quality. Just another side of her fangirlish personality. And Max, that is an interesting parallel you pointed out. The way Kat is able to listen to the point of view of people who disagree with her and really think about what they are saying is one of my favourite things about her character. That's because she grew up in the Court. Meaning, she deals with the people who know what they're talking about more often than not. And it's interesting to see Paz is actually quite tough - willing to see a potential positive outcome in a situation, and do the hard work to get there rather than to just give up or wish for it. This is something Kat needs, quite badly. Right now she's failing around, angry, lashing out, without seeing the possible positive outcome. As i see it, the one being "pretty unlucky" is likely to end up either broken (it's all baaaaad), resigned tumbleweed (live today - tomorrow may or may not be at all) or a survivalist taking it as a personal challenge (dig in and check everything twice). It looks like Paz got the third variant. Another person who may be really good for Kat might be Anja. She strikes me as a fairly gentle soul herself, and probably doesn't have any illusions as to how science is sometimes garnered at the expense of others. One more reason is that Kat is on the verge of trying the magitech way. Stop! Analogy Time! You can't touch el pichón. Metahumor time. Sorry, i don't understand Galician. I would really love to see Kat undertake some covert investigations of her own into the court's true nature. Y'know, with miniature spybots and computer hacking ... and then she becomes the new Headmaster.
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Post by joemilino on Aug 5, 2010 17:30:40 GMT
There definitely is a philosophic subtext going on here. . .
I feel like Paz is trying to reassure Kat that while the system you're part of may seem uncontrollable, whatever system that may be, that you have to always keep your goals in mind. You may not agree with what's going on around you, but you can follow the best morals that you decide; inspiring those around you to do the same.
Then the system that seemed like a daunting automaton becomes nothing more that what it is/should have been. Just a bunch of PEOPLE, excellent people like you and me. ;D
*Definite intentional automaton reference. I'm looking forward to Kat's Robotic Realization*
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