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Post by Max on Aug 2, 2010 7:05:50 GMT
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Post by hal9000 on Aug 2, 2010 8:05:33 GMT
Seems like there's not much to say about this one.
I wonder what kind of research they're doing?
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Post by wittgen on Aug 2, 2010 8:26:32 GMT
Blanket opposition to research that uses mice is pretty silly. But given that it's an idealistic little girl who is primed to view the activities of the researching organization with disgust, it makes sense. I hope Kat will learn to be less silly.
Also, Paz is fierce. And awesome.
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Post by Pixievolt No. 1 on Aug 2, 2010 8:34:27 GMT
Much time has passed since we saw a little girl get scared out of her mind by Mort's circus.
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Post by penguinfactory on Aug 2, 2010 9:26:59 GMT
I would like to table a motion (or whatever) to have Paz renamed "Paz the Invincible".
As to Kat's problem with the mice, I think this is partly just her personality- this is the person who used to cry reading Batman after all- but I have a feeling she wouldn't have been so adamantly opposed to the idea if her current feelings about the Court weren't so negative.
By the way, kudos to Tom for writing about a Hot Button Issue without inserting his own opinions into the story. It seems as if 99% of writers are completely incapable of doing this, particularly webcomic writers.
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Post by tearlach on Aug 2, 2010 9:52:30 GMT
Paz, it isn't self-regulation if you are scaring them into following the rules.
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Post by shadrach on Aug 2, 2010 10:04:12 GMT
I hope Kat will learn to be less silly. So do I. Not just with regard to the mice, but in general. A once-strong character has become perpetually maudlin, mopey and, frankly, irritating. Annie learned the same thing about the Court's origins that Kat did, but she didn't retreat into herself.
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Post by hal9000 on Aug 2, 2010 10:25:04 GMT
I hope Kat will learn to be less silly. So do I. Not just with regard to the mice, but in general. A once-strong character has become perpetually maudlin, mopey and, frankly, irritating. Annie learned the same thing about the Court's origins that Kat did, but she didn't retreat into herself. Annie was in many ways better emotionally equipped to handle the truth about the court's founders, since she'd seen (and been forced to deal with) terrible things at a much earlier age. Furthermore, Annie had no personal stake in the Court before being invited to go to school there, and has been suspicious of them from the beginning. Kat, on the other hand, was of about the same emotional maturity as most of her peers, which is to say not very mature at all. Also, she'd basically grown up in the Court, and had probably developed some romanticized views about it. I imagine her experience was similar to growing up in America and believing all that nonsense about it being the best, most free country in the world, and then having someone show you pictures from Abu Ghraib/Guantanimo bay/My Lai/Kent State or any number of other atrocities directly or indirectly attributable to it.
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Post by shadrach on Aug 2, 2010 11:36:16 GMT
Hal9000: You make some valid points. I still think Kat is overreacting, however. Just because the Court's founders (and maybe not all of them?) were monsters doesn't mean the Court today is Wicked McEvilschool. Is Eglamore evil just because he works there? Was Surma? Are her kind, gentle and loving parents evil just because they work there? Obviously, no. Not any more than America as a whole is evil because some of its authority figures have done, are still doing, or will do, evil acts. (I know that's not what you were implying; I'm just continuing the analogy.)
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Post by Per on Aug 2, 2010 11:38:48 GMT
Lack of caption means that Paz's declaration is ominous and terrible. By the way, kudos to Tom for writing about a Hot Button Issue without inserting his own opinions into the story. Paz's stance seems like a pretty plausible own opinion.
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Post by theweatherman on Aug 2, 2010 12:32:19 GMT
First of all I doubt Tom puts his own opinion in his comic, it seems like Tom to try hard to stop himself doing that. Also, to all those annoyed at Kat, sure I understand, but she saw the court robot's (robots which she had a close relationship with) creator help kill a woman in cold blood out of jealousy, I imagine that would make ANYONE start to hate him and his creations who adore him. She's also young, she might not be as tough as before, but remember she's just a small girl, and these sort of things would be overpowering for even adults, I can't imagine what she's feeling right now. Basically stop looking at it from the perspective of an adult and try looking through it as a child. I agree with whoever said that about Annie, watching your mother die is alot harder than watching some bloke kill some woman you don't know, when you've only been at that place for a year or so. In short, go easy on Kat, she's going through alot right now (I do hope she gets better soon). Oh and Paz = badass. *edit: Oh god I just realised something! The chapter will be about Kat trying to break out the mice! Will probably get Annie to help. I just hope the title "Bad Start" won't mean they fail
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Post by tyler on Aug 2, 2010 12:53:46 GMT
Well, if she succeeds, the mice will be utterly unable to cope in a wild setting, since they've been born and raised in laboratory conditions. So it'll be like she just killed them by cutting off their support system.
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Post by todd on Aug 2, 2010 13:00:34 GMT
So much for our hopes that this chapter would be lighter, after the events of "Spring-Heeled" (though the title page certainly didn't offer any hope of that).
If anything, Tom seems to be showing more and more of the Court's dark side all the while. (Maybe Annie *did* do the right thing in not showing Shadow2 to the teachers back in the first chapter.)
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Post by legion on Aug 2, 2010 13:02:32 GMT
You know, all I could think while reading Paz's first line of dialogue in this page was "Tom is reading our mind! 2 months in advance! D:"
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Post by nikita on Aug 2, 2010 13:31:21 GMT
"Tightly self-regulated" hehe Aperture Science would be proud of the Court.
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ding
Full Member
Posts: 129
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Post by ding on Aug 2, 2010 13:57:05 GMT
I'd be all choked up if mice didn't have it coming to them.
Agreeing with the mice/students analogy. Ender's Game, anyone?
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Post by atteSmythe on Aug 2, 2010 14:29:07 GMT
Hal9000: You make some valid points. I still think Kat is overreacting, however. Just because the Court's founders (and maybe not all of them?) were monsters doesn't mean the Court today is Wicked McEvilschool. Is Eglamore evil just because he works there? Was Surma? Are her kind, gentle and loving parents evil just because they work there? Obviously, no. Not any more than America as a whole is evil because some of its authority figures have done, are still doing, or will do, evil acts. (I know that's not what you were implying; I'm just continuing the analogy.) I doubt that Kat believes that every single inhabitant of the Old Court was evil and went along with Jeanne's sacrifice either. In fact, we/she were given direct evidence that there was opposition. However, the people in power did certainly seem to be corrupted. I imagine that Kat sees this as the exact same behavior on a much smaller scale. The Court still benefits from another's sacrifice, and the powers that be condone it. I think that, to her, right now and in her frame of mind, this is evidence that the modern Court is still Wicked McEvilschool. (as for Eggers, may we not forget that the method of Reynardine's confinement did not seem to be the most humane available)
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Post by beekay on Aug 2, 2010 16:01:02 GMT
In the category of "Worst Possible Thing To Say (and clearly I must be wrong)"
Kat (and therefore most people without etheric powers) are mad at Diego for killing Jeane.
But Diego is dead and his actions effectively immortalized Jeane.
She now stands forever at the barrier between the Court and the Wood, as young and beautiful as the day they put her there.
Before they put her there, we know she was a talented swordswoman allied with the Court. We also saw in the memory that she loved someone who betrayed the Court, possibly by allying with the magical beings of the Wood. Given the war against magic and her rejection of Diego's devices, we must conclude that she was a swordswoman unaugmented by either magic or cybernetics.
An unaugmented human has moral high-ground, but is also on the fast track to an honorable warrior's death. Given that her battle was against someone she loved, she may even have welcomed being "taken out" of the conflict. In short, she either had a death wish, or a loyalty to the Court that surpassed her human feelings, either of which could justify the actions of the man who actually shot her, the group of witnesses, or Diego the "horrible little man."
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Post by asianborat on Aug 2, 2010 18:17:53 GMT
Oh the naivete.... "chuckles"
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Post by Aris Katsaris on Aug 2, 2010 18:19:55 GMT
...uh, no. Her features have clearly deteriorated over time. She's deadly white, her stare is vacant, it's not even certain she can speak. By what definition is she young, or even beautiful? Even her sheer portrait preserves her beauty and her youth infinitely better than her ghost. That her features have withered is even explicitly stated by Annie in #432
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Post by joephlommin on Aug 2, 2010 18:28:23 GMT
Hmm Im not going to like This chapter not a fan of Kat.
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Post by sebastian on Aug 2, 2010 19:58:30 GMT
Hal9000: You make some valid points. I still think Kat is overreacting, however. I know it can be hard to remember it with the maturity they are able to show sometime, but Kat and the other are still teenagers, in full puberty, I think in that age boys/girls have the tendency to overreact a little.
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lovecraft1024
Full Member
What does anything mean? Basically
Posts: 118
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Post by lovecraft1024 on Aug 2, 2010 22:43:30 GMT
"...would have to get through me first."
What did the Court do before Paz? Was there another in her place? How serious is the Court leaving the welfare of lab animals to a child? If some scientist-type makes a case for an experiment that Paz disagrees with, what makes anyone think that they'd listen to Paz? Perhaps Paz is in for her own rude awakening? Truth is, in reality, things are rarely black and white. Learning this is part of the transition to adult.
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Post by Ulysses on Aug 3, 2010 0:03:27 GMT
Panel 4 here basically sums up Kat's emotions at the moment. While denouncing the Court as only caring about itself and doing what it likes she looks over her shoulder at Bobby. Her anger at the current Court is anchored to her anger at the early Court, Diego in particular, and by extension also his creations. All the Court robots, therefore, are reminders to her of the misdeeds the Court was built on. I guess that's why she's having so much trouble with Robot's new body - perhaps subconsciously she doesn't think he deserves a new body, being originally a creation of Diego's, but this clashes with her fascination with robotics and desire to help Robot as a friend. She's a very confused young girl right now, ready to lash out at anything. So basically a normal teenager then
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Post by theweatherman on Aug 3, 2010 0:13:15 GMT
Well, if she succeeds, the mice will be utterly unable to cope in a wild setting, since they've been born and raised in laboratory conditions. So it'll be like she just killed them by cutting off their support system. Nah, Paz can help them smoothly edge into wilder settings. Or maybe the fairies will use them as mounts? Who knows? So out of interest, who here thinks Kat will reveal (by her own intention or not) a etheric ability (magic power)?
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monte
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by monte on Aug 3, 2010 17:50:12 GMT
Eh... i kinda think that Kat's reaction is a bit over the top. I mean angry maybe, but outright crying over it? Not to mention that Kat has championed science for such a long time, it's kinda hard to believe that she has never heard of animal testing before, and would be surprised by it... Hell one thing i might bring up is all the good that animal testing has done; the medical science for instance that came from it has saved countless lives and will go on to save countless people in the future... i mean, medical experiments become very hard to do if you do not have living subjects to test on...
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Post by djublonskopf on Aug 3, 2010 19:30:40 GMT
"...would have to get through me first." What did the Court do before Paz? Was there another in her place? How serious is the Court leaving the welfare of lab animals to a child? If some scientist-type makes a case for an experiment that Paz disagrees with, what makes anyone think that they'd listen to Paz? Perhaps Paz is in for her own rude awakening? Truth is, in reality, things are rarely black and white. Learning this is part of the transition to adult. I think what Paz meant was that since she has joined them, "self-regulation" means she gets a vote on what they (as a group) do. She has more influence as part of the system than she would have had from outside it. I could easily be wrong on that. But that's how I understood it.
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Post by todd on Aug 3, 2010 22:07:57 GMT
Kat might not have heard of animal testing or thought about it because she specializes in mechanical science, such as robotics.
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Post by warrl on Aug 4, 2010 0:37:50 GMT
Kat might not have heard of animal testing or thought about it because she specializes in mechanical science, such as robotics. And proteins.
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Post by wittgen on Aug 4, 2010 7:31:40 GMT
But the proteins were a chemistry experiment, not a biological one. I think Todd's point stands. It's still odd that she wouldn't know of and understand research that involves mice.
I guess there's the possibility that whatever the court is doing to the mice is absurdly cruel, but that seems incredibly unlikely. Science doesn't usually benefit from cruelty. Maybe etheric science does?
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